what would you choose?

lowkey said:

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

-rough broad shoulder

-broad grass strip

-the rarely used sidewalk?

Sidewalk.

Although some will say "take the lane" (which at times I agree with and
do), that would be option 2 in my book, since another empty 3' wide
paved "lane" is available that impeeds noone. Of course, if there were
people on the walk then I'd probably forgo it that day.

Rich

P.S. My "road" bike is an old MTB so I have no experience with going on
and off sidewalks on a real road bike. Maybe it's a bad idea.

"lowkey" <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

-rough broad shoulder

-broad grass strip

-the rarely used sidewalk?

If your bike is physically uncomfortable in the rough, the choice is
between the sidewalk and the narrow road. I face such a choice on the
way between Atlantic Beach and Long Beach; I take the road and everyone
else can pass me, wait for me, or get a bike. I only hop the sidewalk
if a road (not this one, it never gets that jammed) is so crowded that
not even a bike can get through. NYS law allows sidewalk riding except
where prohibited, for example, all of NYC. If you think riding the
sidewalk makes life easier for everyone, do it. If you get nabbed, go
to court with a bunch of 8x10 color glossies with circles and arrows and
a paragraph on the back explaining what each one is. You could get a
precedent allowing the practice.

--ag

In article <[email hidden]>,

lowkey said:

The narrow single lane stretch in-between the multi-lane intersections is
the problem. the lanes are very narrow and quite busy. the should is unpaved
and very broad - easily a kar lane wide. but while the surface is broadly
smooth it has the herringbone texture of heavy equipment tires and treads
making for a vibrating ride. For residential stretch the shoulder abuts on
to a very broad grass strip, followed by a usually deserted sidewalk
followed by more lawn before the residential part begins. They could easily
have 3 more lanes with the space they have.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Now here is the problem: Driving on the single lane is dicey. I am quite
experience and comfortable riding in traffic but this narrow and busy single
lane makes me nervous. Kars do not give you much space. The shoulder is
ridable on a mtb or sturdy hybrid/utility but I wouldn't want to ride it on
a skinny tire road racer. Even on a full suspension mtb the ride is
unpleasant given the surface texture.

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

No idea who/what kona is, but this is the one I'd pick. Take the lane,
if there's no oncoming traffic for a bit move over to let cars behind
you pass, otherwise they can wait.
How long a stretch is it? If it's only from one major intersection to
the next, I'd guess not long. If somebody has a problem with slowing
down to half the normal traffic speed for two or three minutes because
it's not safe to pass a bike, they can take an alternate route. If two
minutes is going to make the difference between being on time and being
late, well, their lack of planning ahead isn't your problem.

dave

--
Dave Vandervies [email hidden]
[I]f I really did not possess a sense of humour at all, then I would not get
*any* jokes on comp.lang.c, would I? I have a distinct memory of getting some
jokes in the last few months. --Joona I Palaste in comp.lang.c

lowkey wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

-rough broad shoulder

-broad grass strip

-the rarely used sidewalk?

Depends on the law where you live, and your attitude to it.

Most places, riding on the sidewalk is illegal. It may be safe, it may
be deserted, you may be unlikely to be stopped/fined etc., but it's
probably illegal. I'd guess that the grass strip probably counts as
part of the sidewalk. Do you care about doing somthing illegal (albeit
illegal at a very minor level)? That's up to you.

Likewise, there may or may not be a compulsion on cyclists to use a
cycle lane if one exists. If there is, and you care about such things
(as above), ya gotta use it - unless you can reasonably make a case
that the surface is so bad that it's unsafe, and you're forced to use
the road.

If there's no such compulsion, you are entitled to use the road
regardless of whether the bike lane exists or not. Most places, you
have to ride as close to the kerb as is resonably consistent with
safety. That includes positioning yourself to prevent someone from
overtaking you dangerously. If that means in the middle of the road
lane then that's where you need to be. If others are held up by you
for a few seconds, tough. It's a short stretch, your safety comes
before their inconvenience.

The worst place to be is trapped on the road surface between the kerb
and the passing traffic. Be part of the traffic flow, not an
obstruction to it.
If you need to use the road lane, and you're not legally obliged to be
in bike lane, then take posession of the traffic lane.
Be awake and concious of your surroundings, clear about your
intentions, firm and polite. Look back well in advance, spot your gap,
indicate before you pull out, keep your speed reasonable, indicate back
in, then give a wave of thanks as you pull back in.

I'm not being a zealot. I'm not suggesting that you hold people up
just beacause you can, or that you flick in and out of the traffic flow
on a whim and put yourself in danger. It's not always possible to get
out, or maybe the next guy in the traffic is an a**h**e and accelerates
to block you, or is asleep. There's a million exceptions, but it's
common sense that'll keep you safe. It's also easy for me to preach at
you about what you should be doing, especially from out here in
usenet...

Cyclists who bumble along semi-concious, ride on kerbs, or worse,
against the traffic, break lights etc. give us all a bad name, and
reinforce the idea among cagers that we're not entitled to fair use of
the road, and are just an obstruction to be bypassed as quickly as
possible.

Just my 2c. worth...

bookieb.

"andy gee" wrote: (clip) a bunch of 8x10 color glossies with circles and
arrows and a paragraph on the back explaining what each one is. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Thanks for the memory."

lowkey said:

What would kona do?
-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?
-rough broad shoulder
-broad grass strip
-the rarely used sidewalk?

I don't know. I don't live around here.

Art Harris

lowkey said:

One route I frequent takes me out Stone Rd. It is a multi-lane
east/west city street that abruptly narrows to a single lane east of
Gordon St. as you pass through, first the university proper, and then
the arboretum on the north side and residential followed by
undeveloped land to the south.

At the next major intersection - Victoria Rd. - the street has
recently been rebuilt into a luxurious multi-lane intersection with
incredibly wide bike lanes with nary a storm grate. Those have been
built integral to the curb so that the bike lane is a smooth strip of
pristine asphalt almost a car width wide.

The narrow single lane stretch in-between the multi-lane
intersections is the problem. the lanes are very narrow and quite
busy. the should is unpaved and very broad - easily a kar lane wide.
but while the surface is broadly smooth it has the herringbone
texture of heavy equipment tires and treads making for a vibrating
ride. For residential stretch the shoulder abuts on to a very broad
grass strip, followed by a usually deserted sidewalk followed by more
lawn before the residential part begins. They could easily have 3
more lanes with the space they have.

[The reason it has not been so widened involves a lot of municipal
politics. I don't doubt the entire stretch will eventually be widened
but for now that is the nature of the street.]

Now here is the problem: Driving on the single lane is dicey. I am
quite experience and comfortable riding in traffic but this narrow
and busy single lane makes me nervous. Kars do not give you much
space. The shoulder is ridable on a mtb or sturdy hybrid/utility but
I wouldn't want to ride it on a skinny tire road racer. Even on a
full suspension mtb the ride is unpleasant given the surface texture.

The lawn strip is similarly ridable on an mtb but soft and mushy. It
isn't part of the residential properties so riding it would not be a
trespass.

Then there is the sidewalk. As I said it is pretty much deserted
since decent people drive kars to go 100 meters. A good surface, no
pedestrians, no kars....

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

-rough broad shoulder

-broad grass strip

-the rarely used sidewalk?

Take the lane. Pretend you're a farm tractor, garbage truck, street sweeper, or
other slow moving vehicle, because in the eyes of the law, *that's what you
are.* Being hit from behind is extremely rare, but you can further minimize
your risk by being as visible as possible -- don't hug the curb, wear bright
colored clothing, use reflectors, etc.

Matt O.

lowkey wrote:

I'd try it out both ways and see which made me happiest. I'll generally
take the lane if the terrain is such that I can expect maintain a good
clip (few stops, flat or downhill), and I'll take an unoccupied sidewalk
if it's a good sidewalk and conditions are such that I would be
travelling slower than my usual slower-than-traffic pace (uphill, lots
of lights or stop signs, etc).

I don't know if riding on the sidewalk is technically legal around here
or not, but I think I see as many bikes on the sidewalks as I do on the
street. I'm still not used to this dense suburban lifestyle, and I miss
my midwestern wide open spaces!

"lowkey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

Got a google map or something?

Thanks.

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

30 Sep 2005 09:18:54 -0700,
<[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] wrote, in part:

Quoted message said:

Cyclists who bumble along semi-concious, ride on kerbs, or worse,
against the traffic, break lights etc. give us all a bad name, and
reinforce the idea among cagers that we're not entitled to fair use of
the road, and are just an obstruction to be bypassed as quickly as
possible.

Personally, I givafuk what cagers think. Their minds are already made
up. I just don't do anything stupid that's likely to get me killed or
cited by the police.

[censored] on cagers. They're the most dangerous bunch of lawless [censored]
anyway.
--
zk

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"lowkey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

Got a google map or something?

Thanks.

I don't think it would help much. If you Google map [or Mapquest or
whatever] on

1 Stone Rd. E. Guelph On Canada

you can see the area. It is the stretch of Stone Rd between Gordon St and
Victoria Rd. The Stone/Victoria intersection is the one that has been
rebuilt this past summer.

Checking... Ya even Google Earth doesn't really show much. Not only is the
improvement too recent, Guelph is unfortunately just outside the high detail
area of GTA for Google Earth mapping.

I'll see if I can djinn up a diagram or something in MS paint after my
ride.

"Dave Vandervies" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
lowkey <[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

No idea who/what kona is, but this is the one I'd pick.

It's a literary affectation.

Kona is a bike manufacturer. Some people pose the question; 'What would
Kali do?' Some deists ask; 'What would Jesus do?' I ask the maker Kona what
he would do.

Quoted message said:

Take the lane,
if there's no oncoming traffic for a bit move over to let cars behind
you pass, otherwise they can wait.
How long a stretch is it? If it's only from one major intersection to
the next, I'd guess not long.

No, not long. Maybe 1 km before the sidewalk ends at the end of residential
development.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lowkey wrote:
<snip>

Quoted message said:

What would kona do?

-busy dicey narrow single lane asphalt?

-rough broad shoulder

-broad grass strip

-the rarely used sidewalk?

Depends on the law where you live, and your attitude to it.

My attitude towards laws is that they nice things in the abstract and they
usually agree with my mores and ethos but I don't feel bound to follow any
law because it is the law.
[...]

Quoted message said:

The worst place to be is trapped on the road surface between the kerb
and the passing traffic.

Just to clarify: there is no kerb. From the road out it is:

Road
broad rough shoulder
wide grass strip
sidewalk
more grass strip
fence
residential development.

Zoot Katz said:

Personally, I givafuk what cagers think. Their minds are already made
up. I just don't do anything stupid that's likely to get me killed or
cited by the police.

[censored] on cagers. They're the most dangerous bunch of lawless [censored]
anyway.

Bicyclists with that attitude is what makes cagers think the way they do.

lowkey said:

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Got a google map or something?

Quoted message said:

I don't think it would help much. If you Google map [or Mapquest or
whatever] on

Got a digital camera?

"Rich" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

lowkey said:

"Claire Petersky" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Got a google map or something?

Quoted message said:

I don't think it would help much. If you Google map [or Mapquest or
whatever] on

Got a digital camera?

Nope. A regular camera. Too nice for my skills but it was a gift. I usually
scan in the photos but I dunno if a ground level photo would really show the
nature of the street.

No matter. I djinned up a diagram. Note it is not too scale.

http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/map.stone.rd.bmp

lowkey said:

No matter. I djinned up a diagram. Note it is not too scale.

http://www.geocities.com/siklelogical/map.stone.rd.bmp

Great diagram! About the only thing it's missing are little animated
cars and bicycles.

Looks like the sidwalk only covers about 75% of the distance you need to
travel on the two lane road. or is that a scale issue?

And I can't beleive the city hasn't made the road 4 lanes all the way
through...

Rich