WHAT WERE WITH THOSE IDIOTS?

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was the
most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

If you mean the [censored] that tried to stop the race, they are "no global", that sort of hooligans
that goes around smashing cars and shops for supposed political reasons. One of their leaders, a
terrorist named jose bove, was jailed some time ago and those useless idiots were doing some sort of
improvised block to ask for his liberation for jail.

In a country that is more serious than france they would all be jailed with their leaders. In france
they let them do this pathetic theater.

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was the
most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

damn

david

Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government benefits, local steel
workers I think.

just jose Bove supporters asking for him being released from prison "David Ryan"
<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

damn

david

Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government benefits, local steel workers
I think.

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government benefits,

Quoted message said:

local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole from the government. This
protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on French steel. The tariff on French steel was
imposed after the French government banned hollywood [censored] and [censored] movies from France. Maybe
they should have put up two soapboxes and had Lance debate Virenque about the steel tariffs and
[censored] movies, and then get back on the bikes.

they might have well. it took about that long. david

"Callistus Valerius" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government

benefits,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole from the government. This
protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on

French

Quoted message said:

steel. The tariff on French steel was imposed after the French government banned hollywood [censored]
and [censored] movies from France. Maybe they should have put up two soapboxes and had Lance debate
Virenque about the steel tariffs and [censored] movies, and then get back on the bikes.

Callistus Valerius said:

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government benefits,

Quoted message said:

local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole from the government. This
protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on French steel. The tariff on French steel was
imposed after the French government banned hollywood [censored] and [censored] movies from France. Maybe
they should have put up two soapboxes and had Lance debate Virenque about the steel tariffs
and [censored] movies, and then get back on the bikes.

Speaking of socialism, I notice that Beloki was moved to a "private clinic" in Spain for treatment.
I guess with the government health care, he would never ride again.

Quoted message said:

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government

benefits,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole from the government. This
protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on

French

Quoted message said:

steel...

The protest today was a group demanding that Jose Bove be freed from prison, as you might have
noticed from their banners.. Bove, described by the Times as a "peasant leader," is "an
anti-globalization campaigner jailed for destroying genetically modified crops." I don't know how
long he has been in prison or what his sentence is, but his supporters continue to make a little
noise now and then.

Whether you are for or against the proliferation of GMOs you might as well know what the
demonstration was about. Whether these guys have the moral or other right to disrupt the Tour, or
how the tolerance level for such demonstrations differs in France from that is the US are other
questions.

-- AMG

Actualy private clinics provide the worst possible treatment. Public hospitals have the most
professional and least venal atitude . This year in France several "jet-set" type celebities died or
got amputed after being poorly treated in a private clinic for minor stuff "David Ryan"
<[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government

benefits,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the government. This protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on

French

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

steel. The tariff on French steel was imposed after the French

government

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

banned hollywood [censored] and [censored] movies from France. Maybe they should

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

put up two soapboxes and had Lance debate Virenque about the steel

tariffs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and [censored] movies, and then get back on the bikes.

Speaking of socialism, I notice that Beloki was moved to a "private

clinic"

Quoted message said:

in Spain for treatment. I guess with the government health care, he would never ride again.

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was the
most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

The idiots were supporting Jose Bove. Found this on a web site:
semcosh.orgJose%20Bove.htmOpen ↗

-----------------------------------------

Following is a statement by Jose Bove, French farmer and unionist, to a French court during a trial
on charges of destroying genetically modified maize. Bove is best known for actions against the
McDonaldization of food.

The strength of our union movement rests on this determination to mobilize free individuals who
accept all the consequences of their acts...

Today, I am present in this court together with Rene Riesel and Francis Roux, accused of committing
a serious crime according to the law. The alleged crime is: the destruction of sacks of genetically
modified maize.

Yes, this is serious, and that's why I assume full responsibility. I am not going to hide behind
collective, anonymous responsibility. As a trade unionist in the Confédération Paysanne, I
believe in the ability of everyone to act as an individual. There is no place in our trade union
for a hierarchy of responsibility. Each member of the union plays a main part in her or his own
future, and is fully engaged in this. The strength of our union movement rests on this
determination to mobilize free individuals who accept all the consequences of their acts knowing
fully the motive for them.

Yes, on January 8, I participated in the destruction of genetically modified maize, which was stored
in Novartis' grain silos in Nerac. And the only regret I have now is that I wasn't able to destroy
more of it.

I knew that by acting in this way I was doing something illegal. But it was necessary, and we had no
other choice. The way in which genetically modified agricultural products have been imposed on
European countries didn't leave us with any alternative.

When was there a public debate on genetically modified organisms? When were farmers and consumers
asked what they think about this? Never.

The decisions have been taken at the level of the World Trade Organization (WTO), and state
machinery complies with the law of market forces. The WTO dictates its own law on the opening of
trade barriers. The obligation to import bovine somatotropin meat from the USA is a good example of
this. The Panel of the WTO, the true policeman of world trade, decides what's "good" for both
countries and their people, without consultation or a right of appeal.

The countries or groups of countries which refuse the importation of bovine somatotropin meat or
genetically modified products have to prove that these are dangerous, and not the inverse! The Codex
Alimentarius, the norm dictated by the multinationals, is there to fix the rules of the game!

Why refuse something which is presented as "progress?" It's not because of old fashionedness, or
regret for the "good old days." It's because of concern for the future, and because of a will to
have a say in future development. I am not opposed to fundamental research. I think that it would be
illusory and detrimental to want to curb it. On the other hand, I don't think that every application
of research is necessarily desirable, at the human, social or environmental level.

The current discussion on cloning is like the one on genetic modifications. Is everything that is
possible actually desired by and gainful for people?

Today, no intelligent person can say that genetically modified maize is an example of progress,
neither for agriculture, nor for the economy. On the other hand, the greatest concerns surrounding
genetically modified maize are equally important for human health as for nature.

Novartis' Bt maize is associated with multiple long-term risks because of the presence of the three
introduced genes. Even the director of Novartis recognizes that a "zero risk" simply doesn't exist.
Is this an admission of powerlessness, or a way in which to cast aside his future responsibility in
case there are problems? The problems arising today with certain agricultural practices (such as
animal-based feeds, the effects on bee populations etc.) only serve to reinforce our caution when
dealing with the sorcerer's apprentices.

The biggest danger which genetically modified maize represents, as well as all the other GMOs, is
the impossibility of evaluating the long-term consequences of their use, and following their effects
on the environment, animals and humans.

No separation of genetically modified and non-manipulated products is carried out. For example,
non-manipulated and genetically modified soya are actually mixed together when they arrive in
France. As a result, there is no way of tracing the genetically modified soya. There is no choice
left, neither for the producer, of which I am one, nor for the consumer, amongst whom we all number.

This type of culture also poses a threat to the future of farmers. For some decades productionism
has served to enslave farmers. From being a producer, the farmer has now become someone who is
exploited, who can no longer decide on her or his way of managing the land, nor freely choose her
or his techniques for this. However, a real revolution has been taking place for the last 15 years
amongst members of the Confédération Paysanne, who have put this other type of agriculture back
into action.

Either we accept intensive production and the huge reduction in the number of farmers in the sole
interests of the World Market, or we create a farmer's agriculture for the benefit of everyone.
Genetically modified maize is also the symbol of a system of agriculture and a type of society which
I refuse to accept. Genetically modified maize is purely the product of technology, where the means
become the end. Political choices are swept aside by the power of money.

Agriculture is a perfect illustration of this type of logic, which pervades every facet of food
production. Agricultural production has now become the agro-industry. From the farmers who formed
their small cooperatives, we have seen a conversion to the firms who have rationalized their systems
of production in order to maximize profits on their investments. Since the 1920s, maize in the USA
has been hybridized in order to oblige all farmers to buy seeds through a trust.

The trusts merged in order to invest in new techniques, which were capable of releasing new
profits. Novartis, the world's leading pharmaceutical group, invests billions in order to remain
number one: they sell seeds, herbicides, pesticides and medicines. But competition is strong, and
as a result of the merger which took place between two of their main competitors last week, they
have announced a plan to lay off 2000 employees in order to assure their shareholders of the
profitability of the company.

Is it this kind of logic we want? No. I reject this lurch forwards where the aim of the economy
isn't to satisfy needs, but is merely production for production's sake, without any link to the
interests of the individual or the whole.

Do we need genetically modified maize in Europe?

No. In 1997 maize production increased yet again. It's overflowing the silos. The European Union has
to stock the excess. And who's got to pay for this? Citizens. Who needs these new seeds? No one.
It's only Novartis which wants to get the returns on its investment and remain the number one
pharmaceutical group in the world!

By destroying the genetically modified maize seeds on January 8 at the Novartis factory in Nerac, we
wanted to put this short-sighted logic into the spotlight.

Yes, this action was illegal, but I lay claim to it because it was legitimate.

A democratic debate simply doesn't exist. The conspiracy of silence organized by the companies and
the sovereign states is the sole logic which prevails. As with blood contaminated with the HIV
virus, or mad cow disease, the public mustn't be alarmed. Everything has to be allowed to continue
in silence.

By appearing before you today, I'm aware of being in breach of the law which wants every citizen to
be content with expressing her or his views by simply putting their vote in the urn every six years.

But it's not in this way that social and economic problems are resolved -- on the contrary. Through
the action which we undertook and for which we are being judged, we kicked off a vast citizen's
movement which refuses the use of GMOs in foodstuffs for animals and for humans. These actions will
stop when this mad logic comes to a halt.

Yes, this action was illegal, but I lay claim to it because it was legitimate. I don't demand
clemency, but justice. Either we have acted in everyone's interest and you will acquit us, or we
have shaken the establishment and in that case you will punish us.

There is no other issue.

February 3, 1998, Agen, France

Lindsay
----------------------------
"One of the annoying things about believing in free will and individual responsibility is the
difficulty of finding somebody to blame your problems on. And when you do find somebody, it's
remarkable how often his picture turns up on your driver's license."

P.J. O'Rourke

AMG said:

The protest today was a group demanding that Jose Bove be freed from prison, as you might have
noticed from their banners.. Bove, described by the Times as a "peasant leader," is "an
anti-globalization campaigner jailed for destroying genetically modified crops." I don't know how
long he has been in prison or what his sentence is, but his supporters continue to make a little
noise now and then.

He's a terrorist. Maybe France will release him so we can stick him in Camp X-Ray. :-)

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People like you are why they only open the
top half of caskets." -Tommy Bowen

Bove, described by the Times

Quoted message said:

as a "peasant leader," is "an anti-globalization campaigner jailed for destroying genetically
modified crops."

I don't think it was about "franken-foods".

"David Ryan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

damn

david

Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government benefits, local steel workers
I think.

We've got the same situation here, but the steel workers get tariffs instead.

Lindsay said:

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was the
most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

The idiots were supporting Jose Bove. Found this on a web site:

<snip> on total BS you green/red terrorists should be sentenced to death

Quoted message said:

Following is a statement by Jose Bove, French farmer and unionist, to a French court during a
trial on charges of destroying genetically modified maize. Bove is best known for actions against
the McDonaldization of food. .............. Today, I am present in this court together with Rene
Riesel and Francis Roux, accused of committing a serious crime according to the law. The alleged
crime is: the destruction of sacks of genetically modified maize...

Hey, highly informative. Thanks for the shedding a little light on Jose!

-- AMG

Was Bove the fellow who destroyed a McDonald's franchise (or more than 1) a couple of years ago as a
protest against globalization.

Seems communists/socialists hate globalization except when it comes to globalizing communism or
socialism.

"AMG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government

benefits,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the government. This protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on

French

Quoted message said:

steel...

The protest today was a group demanding that Jose Bove be freed from

prison,

Quoted message said:

as you might have noticed from their banners.. Bove, described by the

Times

Quoted message said:

as a "peasant leader," is "an anti-globalization campaigner jailed for destroying genetically
modified crops." I don't know how long he has been

in

Quoted message said:

prison or what his sentence is, but his supporters continue to make a

little

Quoted message said:

noise now and then.

Whether you are for or against the proliferation of GMOs you might as well know what the
demonstration was about. Whether these guys have the moral

or

Quoted message said:

other right to disrupt the Tour, or how the tolerance level for such demonstrations differs in
France from that is the US are other questions.

-- AMG

goulot said:

Actualy private clinics provide the worst possible treatment. Public hospitals have the most
professional and least venal atitude . This year in France several "jet-set" type celebities died
or got amputed after being poorly treated in a private clinic for minor stuff

You stupid french communist should just shut up and be ashamed of yourself. Stop telling dangerous
lies about useless public system working. Anything public does not work and should be closed. France
is the shame of Europe, the new soviet union.

Anyone with a grain of sense goes to private clinics, private schools, private sport structures,
private clubs. Everything public sucks.

Quoted message said:

"David Ryan" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius said:

"> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government

benefits,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> local steel workers I think.

The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole

from

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the government. This protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on

French

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

steel. The tariff on French steel was imposed after the French

government

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

banned hollywood [censored] and [censored] movies from France. Maybe they should

have

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

put up two soapboxes and had Lance debate Virenque about the steel

tariffs

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and [censored] movies, and then get back on the bikes.

Speaking of socialism, I notice that Beloki was moved to a "private

clinic"

Quoted message said:

in Spain for treatment. I guess with the government health care, he would never ride again.

Davide Tosi said:

"goulot" <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Actualy private clinics provide the worst possible treatment. Public hospitals have the most
professional and least venal atitude . This year in France several "jet-set" type celebities died
or got amputed after being poorly treated in a private clinic for minor stuff

Quoted message said:

You stupid french communist should just shut up and be ashamed of yourself. Stop telling dangerous
lies about useless public system working. Anything public does not work and should be closed.
France is the shame of Europe, the new soviet union.

Quoted message said:

Anyone with a grain of sense goes to private clinics, private schools, private sport structures,
private clubs. Everything public sucks.

OK, tell me about your private trains, private roads, private air force, private police...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

"David Ryan" <[email hidden]> a écrit dans le message de
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Callistus Valerius wrote:
>
> "> Socialist Utopia - another group not getting enough government

benefits,

Quoted message said:

> > local steel workers I think.
>
> The protest a few days ago were artists looking for a bigger dole

from

Quoted message said:

> the government. This protest today was against Bush's 30% tariff on

French

Quoted message said:

> steel. The tariff on French steel was imposed after the French

government

Quoted message said:

> banned hollywood [censored] and [censored] movies from France. Maybe they should

have

Quoted message said:

> put up two soapboxes and had Lance debate Virenque about the steel

tariffs

Quoted message said:

> and [censored] movies, and then get back on the bikes.

Speaking of socialism, I notice that Beloki was moved to a "private

clinic"

Quoted message said:

in Spain for treatment. I guess with the government health care, he would never ride again.

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was the
most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

damn

david

Sometimes you gotta give the cops something to do to fight the boredom.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Davide Tosi said:

david said:

WTF is the question? I don't have sound so i dont' hear what they are saying... but that was the
most rediculous spectacle i've ever seen.

If you mean the [censored] that tried to stop the race, they are "no global", that sort of
hooligans that goes around smashing cars and shops for supposed political reasons. One of their
leaders, a terrorist named jose bove, was jailed some time ago and those useless idiots were doing
some sort of improvised block to ask for his liberation for jail.

In a country that is more serious than france they would all be jailed with their leaders. In
france they let them do this pathetic theater.

American cops/paramilitaries would have been approximately as discrete with the world watching. But,
unless it was a well-timed protest, there would have been non-lethal gunplay involved to keep the
goofs off the course. I believe that those guys were savvy about the timing and the French reacted
as well as they could.

I'll be surprised and disappointed if they don't end up in jail though.

--
--
Lynn Wallace xmission.com~lawallOpen ↗ "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.