What to do?

audrey said:

Quoted message said:

It takes (much) less than a minute to negotiate a roundabout. Would
the time of the accident have been recorded that precisely and
accurately? Of course not.

No, but, it may show that he did not use his phone at all during the
relevant time period.

Correct but that wasn't the point to my reply to the curious doctor.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Dr Curious said:

Quoted message said:

> If there were indeed a possibily that you were making a phone call
> at the time of the accident, then the first thing to do would be to
> contact the phone company and find out whether that was the case.

It takes (much) less than a minute to negotiate a roundabout. Would
the time of the accident have been recorded that precisely and
accurately? Of course not.

No but the fact that he never made any call during his bike ride up
until that point would be.

Yes that would help, but the other way around is unlikley to hinder.

Even if he doesn't get the phone logs now, if any action is taken
against the driver, one would expect the driver (or their solicitors)
to be getting them. I don't really see what the OP has to lose by
getting the information now. However, I am not a lawyer, he needs to
see a lawyer for proper advice.

Audrey

--

email = audmacd aaatttt hhhottt mmmaailll dddoottt ccccoommm

Dr Curious said:

No, what counts is what's on the Phone Company log. And prior to that,
the impression you may have inadvertantly given the Police - as you
gave in your post. That you may indeed have been using one at the time.

I did tell the police that using the phone while cycling wasn't something
that I'd consider doing. The only time someone has called me while I have
been cycling I pulled over at the next safe place and took the call there.

They still haven't got a statement out of me - this is one of the reasons
I want to get things moving one way or another, but I don't want to go and
chase them up without knowing what I want to do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Troll? Why thank you

Just insurance. You know how it is.

Yes - maybe to troll I should add that I wasn't wearing a h****t... 🙂
--
Chris Johns

Colin Blackburn said:

Quoted message said:

But presumably you'd be able to remember if you'd made a call and
finished it *prior* to entering the roundabout - because I'd hope that
you'd actually pulled over and stopped to *make* it...

Not necessarily. The OP stated he had no recollection of the accident. The
memory loss may not be confined to the immediate time of the accident.

I don't remember much after leaving work, but given the roundabout in
question literally just round the corner from work, that may not be too
suprising.

Had I been making any calls, I would have finsihed them before I left (and
probalby would have used the work's phone).

I find the claim somewhat puzzling, unless of course the driver made it up
in an attempt to pass blame.
--
Chris Johns

Chris Johns said:

I don't remember much after leaving work, but given the roundabout in
question literally just round the corner from work, that may not be too
suprising.

Had I been making any calls, I would have finsihed them before I left
(and
probalby would have used the work's phone).

I find the claim somewhat puzzling, unless of course the driver made it
up
in an attempt to pass blame.

It's possible. But this is why you need a solicitor. They are in a much
better position, once they have evidence such as the witness statements
and phone records, to make such a serious allegation against the driver.

Colin

Chris Johns said:

I find the claim somewhat puzzling, unless of course the driver made it up
in an attempt to pass blame.

It's possible you were scratching your ear, or something, which looked
like you were on the phone. I know I've been about to castigate
motorists for being on the phone when they're not.

Quite how this alleviates the proportion of blame on the motorist, I'm
not sure.

--
Mark.

Chris Johns wrote:

[snip roundabout & unconsciousness]

Been there, done that.

Quoted message said:

I did tell the police that using the phone while cycling wasn't
something that I'd consider doing. The only time someone has called
me while I have been cycling I pulled over at the next safe place and
took the call there.

If you have never used a phone while cycling, it would be perverse to
suggest that the first and only time you did so you got knocked off and
can't remember it.

In the case of criminal liability it should in any case not make any
difference what you were doing anyway, assuming the driver hit you through
failing to cede right of way when entering (the most common cause of this
kind of crash and injury on roundabouts). So it should make no difference
whatsoever to the prosecution of the driver.

That's just my lay opinon, of course.

When it comes to civl liability, the driver would need to offer some proof
that you were on the phone. Which might prove difficult for him. In that
circumstance if he wants to claim contributory negligence, the burden of
proof will be on him to prove it, especially if the witness does not
corroborate his claim (unless that's changed since I was last hit, which I
don't think it has). Making phone calls while cycling round roundabouts
would be highly unusual behaviour for any cyclist, and the court may well be
sceptical about such a claim. But do get the phone company logs if you can.

Maybe the driver meant *he* was on the phone - far more likely! ;-)

--
Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"Chris Johns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.44.0407061305260.23928-100000@charlotte...

Quoted message said:

Dr Curious said:

No, what counts is what's on the Phone Company log. And prior to that,
the impression you may have inadvertantly given the Police - as you
gave in your post. That you may indeed have been using one at the time.

I did tell the police that using the phone while cycling wasn't something
that I'd consider doing. The only time someone has called me while I have
been cycling I pulled over at the next safe place and took the call

there.

Quoted message said:

They still haven't got a statement out of me - this is one of the reasons
I want to get things moving one way or another, but I don't want to go

and

Quoted message said:

chase them up without knowing what I want to do.

As you're 100% confident you weren't using the phone then probably the
first thing to do would be to try and get a copy of the phone log
yourself. If you explain the position, that you may want to institute
proceedings and that you're maybe considering representing yourself then
they should comply. Armed with this evidence, you should then maybe next
go to the Police and enquire about the independant witness, and whether
the Police intend to prosecute the driver as a result.

Because if they do, then it might be in your interests to go to a solicitor
with a view to seeking damages, but maybe only after seeing how the case
turns out. If the Police don't seek to prosecute, then while it's still
possible for you to sue for damages - found on a balance of probabilty
rather than beyond reasonable doubt, you have to balance the likely costs
against the possibility of losing the case, never mind the amount you're
likely to recover.

Whereas if you go to the solicitor first, they will charge you extra for
obtaining information which can easily get for yourself. Also there's no
mad hurry to iniate proceedings, as even cases brought under the Criminal
Injuries Compensation scheme have a two year time limit. Also once any
criminal case has been heard, this will enable the solicitor to give you
better advice on the spot, without racking up hefty bills. A delay in the
criminal case, might also give you a reasonable excuse for delaying
bringing a civil case.

Curious

Quoted message said:

Yes - maybe to troll I should add that I wasn't wearing a h****t... 🙂
--
Chris Johns

audrey <[email hidden]> wrote in news:fs3le0h40mu3eu0tkdn0t5pf9m7udpqt2h@
4ax.com:

Quoted message said:

Even if he doesn't get the phone logs now, if any action is taken
against the driver, one would expect the driver (or their solicitors)
to be getting them.

Surely the phone company would tell anyone asking for such information,
other than the police and the phone owner, to get lost (and the police
*should* need a warrant for it). Even if they are a solicitor they have no
right to such information.

Graeme

in message <Pine.LNX.4.44.0407061037240.23821-100000@charlotte>, Chris

Johns (') said:

I was recently (around a month ago) knocked off my bike on a
rondabout. As a result of the head injuries caused by hitting the
road, I don't really recall anything about it.

The police have said the driver claims I was using my phone at the
time (I find this rather hard to believe, as amongst other things the
phone was with me in the hospital when I got there, if I had been
using it it would surley have ended up in the ditch?)

Regardless, I need to let them know if I want them to prosecute the
driver or not, or just to make a civil case, I'm not quite sure of the
best plan really - what are the implication of doing either?

I need to chase to the police on this, they were meant to call me some
time ago but haven't. They do have a witness (who probably knows more
than me!).

I agree with other posters that using a phone while riding a bike is a
bloody stupid thing to do, but

(i) as others have pointed out, your phone company can easily clear
this up; and
(ii) even if you were on the phone this does not relieve the motorist
of his responsibility to avoid you.

So you have a case against the motorist regardless, although it will be
much stronger if your phone company can confirm your phone wasn't in
use at the time of the accident.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and there was nothing left for us to do
but pick up the pieces.

in message <[email hidden]>, Colin Blackburn

(') said:

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:39:58 GMT, Velvet <[email hidden]>
wrote:

Not necessarily. The OP stated he had no recollection of the accident.
The memory loss may not be confined to the immediate time of the
accident.

The only time I've had memory loss following a (motorcycle) accident, I
can remember very clearly what happened up to the moment of impact, but
although I was apparently lucid, coherent and organised in the three or
four hours after the impact I can remember nothing of this.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

' ' <------- this blank intentionally spaced left

in message <[email hidden]>, Dr Curious

(') said:

Acording to the OP there were no independant witnesses apart from the
driver, at least the police didn't mention any, and the OP claims not
to be able to remember anything.

Oh, do read the post.

The original poster wrote, in the original post '...They do have a
witness (who probably knows more than me!).'

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Dr Curious

(') said:

Acording to the OP there were no independant witnesses apart from the
driver, at least the police didn't mention any, and the OP claims not
to be able to remember anything.

Oh, do read the post.

Oh do read the thread !

Dear, oh dear, oh dear !

< quote >

Quoted message said:

at 11.51 am "Dr Curious" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I stand corrected by audrey.

As according to the OP there was a witness in addition to the driver.

</quote>

Nevertheless its nice to see that you agree that had the OP indeed
been using a mobile phone while riding around a roundabout on a bike
that would have been a bloody stupid thing to do.

Nice to have that final confirmation.

Despite the fact that anyway, he denies doing any such thing.

Which was nice.

Curious

Quoted message said:

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

Dr Curious said:

What, so you mean there may have been a possibilty you were indeed
using a mobile phone while negotiating a roundabout on a bike?

Given that the only reason you doubt the driver's account is that
the phone was recovered.

As a matter of interest is this something you do often?

It's not illegal per se for pedal cyclists. You could be shown to be
CWDC&A, obviously.

In article said:

Acording to the OP there were no independant witnesses apart from the
driver, at least the police didn't mention any

That's a curious interpretation of "They do have a witness (who probably
knows more than me!)."

"Alan Braggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Acording to the OP there were no independant witnesses apart from the
driver, at least the police didn't mention any

That's a curious interpretation of "They do have a witness (who probably
knows more than me!)."

And how exactly would you interpret the following?

________________________________________________________________________

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]... at [2.35 p.m]

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Dr Curious

(') said:

Acording to the OP there were no independant witnesses apart from the
driver, at least the police didn't mention any, and the OP claims not
to be able to remember anything.

Oh, do read the post.

Oh do read the thread !

Dear, oh dear, oh dear !

< quote >

Quoted message said:

at 11.51 am "Dr Curious" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I stand corrected by audrey.

As according to the OP there was a witness in addition to the driver.

</quote>

<snip>

Curious

Quoted message said:

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
There's nae Gods, an there's precious few heroes
but there's plenty on the dole in th Land o th Leal;
And it's time now, tae sweep the future clear o
th lies o a past that we know wis never real.

_________________________________________________________________________

Can I take it then, that originality isn't exactly your forté?

Curious

In article said:

"Alan Braggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article said:

Acording to the OP there were no independant witnesses apart from the
driver, at least the police didn't mention any

That's a curious interpretation of "They do have a witness (who probably
knows more than me!)."

And how exactly would you interpret the following?

By reading it later.

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:46:50 GMT, Chris Johns <[email hidden]> wrote
(more or less):

Quoted message said:

Dr Curious said:

No, what counts is what's on the Phone Company log. And prior to that,
the impression you may have inadvertantly given the Police - as you
gave in your post. That you may indeed have been using one at the time.

I did tell the police that using the phone while cycling wasn't something
that I'd consider doing. The only time someone has called me while I have
been cycling I pulled over at the next safe place and took the call there.

They still haven't got a statement out of me - this is one of the reasons
I want to get things moving one way or another, but I don't want to go and
chase them up without knowing what I want to do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Troll? Why thank you

Just insurance. You know how it is.

Yes - maybe to troll I should add that I wasn't wearing a h****t... 🙂

Good - then you didn't unecessarily increase your chances of being in
the accident due to risk-compensation, and you didn't increase your
chance of receiving major brain trauma caused by forced rotation of
your skull around your neck.

--
Cheers,
Euan
Gawnsoft: http://www.gawnsoft.co.sr
Symbian/Epoc wiki: http://html.dnsalias.net:1122
Smalltalk links (harvested from comp.lang.smalltalk) http://html.dnsalias.net/gawnsoft/smalltalk

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If, however, you are uncertain whether or not you were on the phone
whilst cycling then it is quite clear that you sometimes *do* use the
phone whilst cycling and you are therefore a [censored].

I met one of these this evening coming home from work. On the (mandatory)
cycle path, wrong side of the road, coming at me fairly quickly, on the
phone. But HE was safe enough, of course, as he was wearing a rather
fetching helmet. I don't think he even saw me 'till we passed each other. A
real [censored]......

tony R.