What spokes do I need?

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Using some of the utilities I found on the internet (calcs+databases of hubs/rims) I can probably
work out what length I need. My only question regarding length is why for the FRONT wheel the left
and right spokes are different lengths according to the calculator I've acquired? I can see the
obvious drive/non-drive length difference for the rear wheel but not the front.

If it isn't a disc hub and the flanges are the same size the spoke lengths should be equal both
sides AFAIK. Re-check making sure you haven't inadvertently entered an off-set. I use
dtswiss.comindex.aspOpen ↗ mainly.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my real question is about the spoke gauge. If I'm after spare spokes to take with me on
tour then it makes sense (?) to go for the same gauge as I already have. How do I tell gauge what
my existing spokes are?

Use a vernier caliper or micrometer, you should typically get readings of
2.0mm for plain gauge or figures like 2.0/1.8mm for double butted (there are other sizes).

Pete

Richard Bates <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Using some of the utilities I found on the internet (calcs+databases of hubs/rims) I can probably
work out what length I need. My only question regarding length is why for the FRONT wheel the left
and right spokes are different lengths according to the calculator I've acquired? I can see the
obvious drive/non-drive length difference for the rear wheel but not the front.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my real question is about the spoke gauge. If I'm after spare spokes to take with me on
tour then it makes sense (?) to go for the same gauge as I already have. How do I tell gauge what
my existing spokes are?

Quoted message said:

I'm also tempted to buy a pair of "flexispokes". Are these any good (for driveside repairs)?

Quoted message said:

Love and nipples from Rich x

Standard Wire Gauge (SWG) Applies for bicycle spokes, knitting needles and Venflon™ innit?

14/16 is good for most purposes...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

Richard Bates <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Using some of the utilities I found on the internet (calcs+databases of hubs/rims) I can probably
work out what length I need. My only question regarding length is why for the FRONT wheel the left
and right spokes are different lengths according to the calculator I've acquired? I can see the
obvious drive/non-drive length difference for the rear wheel but not the front.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my real question is about the spoke gauge. If I'm after spare spokes to take with me on
tour then it makes sense (?) to go for the same gauge as I already have. How do I tell gauge what
my existing spokes are?

Quoted message said:

I'm also tempted to buy a pair of "flexispokes". Are these any good (for driveside repairs)?

Quoted message said:

Love and nipples from Rich x

My spoke key gives the spoke size for each nipple but I think they use other gauges & numbers in
other countries.

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden] Edgware.

Richard Bates said:

Using some of the utilities I found on the internet (calcs+databases of hubs/rims) I can probably
work out what length I need.

Be careful as these can be unreliable - although hopefully close enough for an emergency spoke.

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my real question is about the spoke gauge. If I'm after spare spokes to take with me on
tour then it makes sense (?) to go for the same gauge as I already have.

Might be nice to have matching spokes but it's not essential. Measure at each end and middle to
reveal the gauge, or just compare visually to known gauges.

/snip

Quoted message said:

I'm also tempted to buy a pair of "flexispokes". Are these any good (for driveside repairs)?

I bought a pair of emergency wire spokes from SJS. Seems to be a good product although I've not
tried them yet... and hope I never have to, of course. They do need cutting to size in advance as
threaded end is extra long (305mm for "700c" type) to make it suitable for a range of sizes. There
is always the worry that you'll end up with the wrong size through miscalculation or dodgy sawing,
etc; and I don't know how well that hook (on hub end) would actually work. Because there is always
some leeway in practice with spoke lengths, one spoke may do for both rear sides if it's of the
median length. A 16mm DT nipple should come to the rescue if spoke is slightly too short (these have
2mm more thread than 12mm nipples).

Harris Cyclery sell Kevlar emergency spokes. Might be better (?). Note. The above wire one weighs
only 9 grams and can be coiled.

~PB

Richard Bates said:

Using some of the utilities I found on the internet (calcs+databases of hubs/rims) I can probably
work out what length I need. My only question regarding length is why for the FRONT wheel the left
and right spokes are different lengths according to the calculator I've acquired? I can see the
obvious drive/non-drive length difference for the rear wheel but not the front.

Anyway, my real question is about the spoke gauge. If I'm after spare spokes to take with me on
tour then it makes sense (?) to go for the same gauge as I already have. How do I tell gauge what
my existing spokes are?

I'm also tempted to buy a pair of "flexispokes". Are these any good (for driveside repairs)?

Plain gauge is normally 14g. Double butted is normally 14/16g. Most spoke nipples such as DT or
Sapim use the red Park key - the "middle" size.

There is an alternative to the Hypercracker now available so you can do drive-side repairs with a
normal spoke. sheldonbrown.comtools.htmlOpen ↗

Not sure about a UK stockist.

Zog The Undeniable said:

Quoted message said:

Anyway, my real question is about the spoke gauge. If I'm after spare spokes to take with me on
tour then it makes sense (?) to go for the same gauge as I already have. How do I tell gauge what
my existing spokes are?

Quoted message said:

Plain gauge is normally 14g. Double butted is normally 14/16g. Most spoke nipples such as DT or
Sapim use the red Park key - the "middle" size.

Other sizes for butted spokes are also used quite often. Nipple gauge doesn't indicate spoke gauge
as same nipples can be used with different spokes (if threaded end is same). Spoke itself needs to
be measured.

~PB

Zog The Undeniable said:

Plain gauge is normally 14g. Double butted is normally
14/16g.

14/15 and 15/16 gauge are rather more common than 14/16g. I assuming you're using British wire gauges. These days the metric equivalent measurements are more likely to be listed:

http://mdmetric.com/tech/wiregage.htm

Quoted message said:

Most spoke nipples such as DT or Sapim use the red Park
key - the "middle" size.

My experience is that the black Park key is the correct fit for both DT and Sapim nipples. Incidentally, the red key is the second largest of four:

http://www.parktool.com/tools/SW_0.shtml

I hope this helps.

N. Lenderby (Mrs)

--
Urge, and urge, and urge;
Always the procreant urge of the world.

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 11:25:42 +0000, in
<[email hidden]>, Richard Bates
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[own question snipped]

Thanks for your replies. This is a kind of general conclusion.

1) I have now found (thanks to SB) that I can simply measure the diameter of my existing spokes and
then use SB's lookup table to discover which gauge to buy.

2) I hadn't realised that the flexispokes needed to be precut. Does this mean that I actually need
to take more than one flexispoke with me since I need to prepare for both drive, non-drive, and
front. Or am I missing something obvious here?

3) I hadn't even thought about nipples. Would I be right in thinking that nipples don't break? Or am
I living in cloud cuckoo land.

4) I don't know much about wheelbuilding. I can true a wheel sufficient to get me a short distance.
But if more than one spoke broke I think I's be buggered.

5) Perhaps I should start carrying spare wheels with me.

6) How does a flexispoke work since surely the wheel stands on the spoke? (Joke).

Cheers from Rich x

--
Due to a typing error on the Children's Hospital menu Saturday evening now offers "Beef burger in a
bum". Email: Put only the word "richard" before the @ sign.

Nora Lenderby said:

Quoted message said:

Most spoke nipples such as DT or Sapim use the red Park key - the "middle" size.

[3.96mm]

Quoted message said:

My experience is that the black Park key

[4.22mm]

Quoted message said:

is the correct fit for both DT and Sapim nipples.

I can confirm that must be correct because the 3.25mm red Buddy Spokeys I use also fit normal (2.0)
DT and Sapim nipples. The nearest Tacx size is 3.24mm. (I assume the tiny quoted size differences
between tool brands doesn't matter).

~PB

Richard Bates said:

3) I hadn't even thought about nipples. Would I be right in thinking that nipples don't break? Or
am I living in cloud cuckoo land.

I had a nipple break on Wednesday (it split up one side).

Boing.

Simonb

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

2) I hadn't realised that the flexispokes needed to be precut. Does this mean that I actually need
to take more than one flexispoke with me since I need to prepare for both drive, non-drive, and
front. Or am I missing something obvious here?

Assuming the rear flanges are the same diameter the difference between the drive and non-drive side
can usually be accomodated by the same length spoke. The fronts may quite possibly be longer but
you can measure the difference between front and rear without removing the wheels let alone
anything else.

Quoted message said:

3) I hadn't even thought about nipples. Would I be right in thinking that nipples don't break? Or
am I living in cloud cuckoo land.

The nipples are unlikely to break but could round off if a nasty key is used or, very unlikely
again, the threads strip. More possible is that you could have a frozen (seized) nipple that is
impossible to undo and will need binning with the attached broken piece of spoke leaving you short.

Quoted message said:

4) I don't know much about wheelbuilding. I can true a wheel sufficient to get me a short
distance. But if more than one spoke broke I think I's be buggered.

Replace the broken spokes and tighten until the worst of the buckle disappears, the number of broken
spokes is irrelelevent assuming they broke of their own accord and a little further tweaking should
remove all the buckle. Remember if a spoke breaks through weakness the rim will buckle due to the
re-distribution of stresses which is not the same as buckling a wheel by hitting a pot-hole which
bends the rim so that spoke tension has to be adjusted to try and unbend it.

Pete

Simonb <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Richard Bates said:

3) I hadn't even thought about nipples. Would I be right in thinking that nipples don't break?
Or am I living in cloud cuckoo land.

I had a nipple break on Wednesday (it split up one side).

I had the head pull off 2 nipples other week. (A friend put his pedal in my spokes after the beer
festival).

You also need a spare nipple if the spoke breaks at the rim - you can't get the broken off end of
the old spoke out.

Andrew

Richard Bates said:

2) I hadn't realised that the flexispokes needed to be precut. Does this mean that I actually need
to take more than one flexispoke with me since I need to prepare for both drive, non-drive, and
front.

That's the idea (Simson's are sold in packs of two) - but you might be lucky in having one spoke
that can do for two or three of the sizes if it's cut to the median length, as I mentioned (and
definitely carry a 16mm nipple as well as 12mm in case that helps). Probably better to carry normal
spare spokes for front and left rear if you want & can. They could be stored under a chain stay
inside the seat tube or summat.

Actually, you're very unlikely to need a spare front spoke. Fronts rarely fail, and it's easier and
less problematic to re-true and continue on a front wheel with a missing spoke - especially if it's
a 36-spoke job.

Quoted message said:

3) I hadn't even thought about nipples. Would I be right in thinking that nipples don't break? Or
am I living in cloud cuckoo land.

They're only made of thin brass at best. They crack or round off sometimes - usually at the most
inopportune moment of tightening after another has broken! It's important to replace any in really
shabby condition and to use a good quality spoke key that won't damage them, and carry spares.
That's needn't mean an expensive tool: Buddy Spokey is good and cheap (and light). The better Park
and Tacx keys are probably good too (although I've not tried them yet myself).

Quoted message said:

4) I don't know much about wheelbuilding. I can true a wheel sufficient to get me a short
distance. But if more than one spoke broke I think I's be buggered.

Very unlikely to have more than one spoke break. And if you can true at all, you can always true
better :-)

~PB

Also, rim tape needs to be of a type that you can remove and refit without too much bother. Some
plastic tapes are ok; Velox cloth can be restuck.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

rim tape needs to be of a type that you can remove and refit without too much bother.

Really? I've never broken a spoke, but if I did I would be inclined to fit new rim tape. It's not
expensive.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Pete Biggs said:

rim tape needs to be of a type that you can remove and refit without too much bother.

Really? I've never broken a spoke, but if I did I would be inclined to fit new rim tape. It's not
expensive.

But it's another, possibly never to be used, item to carry on a trip.

Pete

Just zis Guy said:

Quoted message said:

rim tape needs to be of a type that you can remove and refit without too much bother.

Really? I've never broken a spoke, but if I did I would be inclined to fit new rim tape. It's not
expensive.

We're talking about replacing a spoke out on the road. No need to carry a spare rim tape if tape can
be reused*. Velox self-adhesive cloth tape can easily be removed and restuck at least once without
problems. Some non-adhesive tapes can be partially removed just to access the broken spoke.

I also meant that it helps to use a type of rim tape that is not physically difficult to handle even
if replacing with a new tape. I've found Michelin green tape is extremely tight on some rims, for
example. Not nice at home let alone out in the middle of nowhere.

* You might want to carry a spare rim tape anyway in case of damage on tour, but it won't be spare
any more if you use it :-) Seriously, save it for when old tape is damaged or not reusable.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

We're talking about replacing a spoke out on the road. No need to carry a spare rim tape if tape
can be reused*

OK. Never happened to me, so it's not something I've ever considered.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗