What's wrong Jan?

musette said:

Godefroot's latest gem: ""Our team is built to do well in the mountains but they can ride against the clock with guys like Jan, Alexander (Vinokourov) and Andreas Kloeden," said T-Mobile team manager Walter Godefroot." But how is TM built to do well in the mountains (by adding Sevilla -- is that it?! :confused🙂

""I don't think that we will stay together," said Armstrong."

Carmichael: " Besides Lance, George Hincapie is riding better than I’ve ever seen him, and they have power from Pavel Padrnos, Paolo Salvodelli, and Yaroslov Popovych as well. The climbers will suffer but they will contribute as much as they can, taking shorter pulls than their bigger teammates." Fortunately, the DC climbers are decent time-trialists, esp Chechu, Ace and Noval (if not Beltran, who is not bad -- at least he hasn't gotten left behind or fallen).

If cheerleading means accurately predicting the course of events (the opposite of which is denial, as in hoping with no basis that JU will somehow be a real competitor) and recognizing the strength of a given cyclist and a given team, then a lot of people in this world could be termed a cheerleader. It would be cheerleading (and/or denial of reality) to focus on WHY JU failed miserably the way he did during Stage 1, instead of accepting that the outcome was a real blow to JU's prospects for winning the GC. Would that not be a form of cheerleading -- in this case a worse form of cheerleading which is BLIND to the facts -- for JU? 😎

And that's why you post messages/quotes, ad nauseum, about only LA and only how badly JU is cycling.
The rest of has have to scroll through posts where you quote information only about how well LA is cycling or how badly JU is cycling.
I suspect that you're not really that interested in cycling - you're interested in LA. Period.
That's fine as far as it goes.

I think the description of cheerleading - in your case - is apt.

wolfix said:

This is true. We need to seperate TDF riders from Pro Tour riders today. I find that a shame myself. And give me Zabel and Sean Kelly. Complete riders.

I've always thought of Zabel as a complete rider.

In the documentary Hell on Wheels, which was based on his performance in the 2003 T de F he frequently expressed doubts about his ability.

Surprising when you contrast this with the confidence (at least on the surface) of many other high performance athletes, Leyton Hewitt, World class 100 metre sprinters, Ian Botham, Viv Richards (a couple for the cricket followers), Lance Armstrong.

Posting about LA and JU and their teams is natural, because those are the stronger teams historically. One could apply exactly the same logic to you and call you the "anti-cheerleader/drug-allegation-cheerleader for LA". :p You only feel the need to raise this label against me because you do not challenge my points on the merits, which are fully supported by quotes!'

A comment from cyclingnews: "The Berliner Zeitung believes the time has already come [for Vino to have become captain of TM]. "And now he has already lost his status as No. 1 on the team. To Alexander Vinokourov!" The team may deny it, but the paper notes that yesterday Vinokourov "was protected by Guerini, Nardello and Kessler. They were planned as Jan's most important helpers," while "Ullrich himself chatted way back in the field with buddy Steinhauser. Is this the end of a great era?"

Pretend for a moment that Armstrong is not in this race. Then take a look at what you have left.
To me it would be a very tight contention. Todays TT will tell a lot about team cohesion which will also become apparent in the mountain stages.
Impressive individual triumphs aside,it is still a team race.

musette said:

Also, as between ITT and climbing, JU is viewed as having a better chance of sticking with LA in the ITTs than in the mountains. Doesn't bode well for JU. :p

That was my initial reaction as well. However, I'm still somewhat hopeful for a closely contested GC competition. At this point, I'd have to say Vinokourov or Basso are the more likely to challenge LA, but as has been noted, Jan's ITT form looked off on Saturday only in relation to two other riders. Other than Zabriskie and LA, Ullrich lost only a few seconds to some others, and remember he had a significant accident only two days before (I don't care what anyone says -- hitting a car hard enough to take out a rear window is going to have an effect).

Also, remember Ullrich has a reputation of getting stronger as the Tour progresses (a reputation that may have been a bit damaged after last year). He didn't exactly set the world on fire in last year's prologue either, finishing 16th. (Lance, ever consistent, finished two seconds back (to Cancellara) in second place . . . sound familiar?)

So I am hopeful that Ullrich's performance on Saturday looked worse than his actual form this year. As I said, I think there's a good chance Vino will replace Jan as the T-Mobile leader in the coming days, especially if you consider what he did at Ventoux in the D. Libere. But the sentimentalist in me is still hopeful that Ullrich can put in a gallant effort to not only hold on to his leadership role at T-Mobile, but challenge for the GC.

musette said:

Posting about LA and JU and their teams is natural, because those are the stronger teams historically. One could apply exactly the same logic to you and call you the "anti-cheerleader/drug-allegation-cheerleader for LA". :p You only feel the need to raise this label against me because you do not challenge my points on the merits, which are fully supported by quotes!'

The points that you make are one-dimensional points.

As regards my stance in respect of LA, I evaluate the totality of LA's career palmares and don't confine myself solely to what he has done since 1999.

But I wouldn't expect you to acknowledge this.

I've got ahold of a picture of Jan's wounds, they don't look too bad now must have been sore at the time. t-mobile-team.compropertyOpen ↗

Dude it was bad...period! But takes nothing away from Zabriskie and LA! That's the story......now tommorow Boonen? or will Mcewen win or could it be Hushovd??

Ullefan said:

I've got ahold of a picture of Jan's wounds, they don't look too bad now must have been sore at the time. t-mobile-team.compropertyOpen ↗

The pretense of "one leader; eight helpers" at TM has gone. The TM website has an article labeling Nardello as "Vino's watchdog". Now, if Jan is the sole leader, why is Nardello Vino's dedicated dometique of sorts?

""I´m practically Vino´s policeman," quips Daniele Nardello, "Vino is one of our two GC riders, that needs to be protected. I´m happy to do the job." Team sporting director Mario Kummer´s orders have been well understood by the popular Italian rider. Throughout this Tour, you´ll see him riding alongside the Kazahk. With Vino sporting the resplendent turquoise green and gold of the Kazakhstan national champion, the two should make an instantly recognisable duo in the Tour peloton."

😕 Poor Jan. :p

musette said:

The pretense of "one leader; eight helpers" at TM has gone. The TM website has an article labeling Nardello as "Vino's watchdog". Now, if Jan is the sole leader, why is Nardello Vino's dedicated dometique of sorts?

""I´m practically Vino´s policeman," quips Daniele Nardello, "Vino is one of our two GC riders, that needs to be protected. I´m happy to do the job." Team sporting director Mario Kummer´s orders have been well understood by the popular Italian rider. Throughout this Tour, you´ll see him riding alongside the Kazahk. With Vino sporting the resplendent turquoise green and gold of the Kazakhstan national champion, the two should make an instantly recognisable duo in the Tour peloton."

😕 Poor Jan. :p

I read that article on the TM website too. I really feel for JU hes a good guy just a little undermotivated......