What's wrong Jan?

That bandage on Ullrich's neck is big - a lot bigger than would have been shown in the ITT today.

If any of you saw the Grand Depart presentation - the cut to Ullrich's neck and the bandage - was a lot more noticable than it was on today ITT (remember Ullrich's helmet and his position on the bike obscured the amount of bandage on tv today).

If you go through the back windscreen of a car IT IS A VERY SERIOUS ACCIDENT.
Davis Phinney back in the 1980's nearly died from a similar accident.

Ullrich would have been badly shaken by what happened in that accident.

Hios performance in the ITT today is no surprise - I reckon Mobile have understated the accident.
(Even the commentator at the Grand Depart last suggest that the JU's bandage was haemorraging).

alibat said:

Thanks for the hug Ullefan. All of us Jan fans will be feeling pretty miserable at the moment. Did you see the state of the T Mobile car? I can't believe that crash had no effect whatsoever. Also, even by Jans standards that was a massive gear ratio he used. Was it just a bit too big? It could have been worse. After that crash he might not have even started, being seriously injured or even worse.

It's such a disapointment. I don't know what was worse, the crash or Lance passing him? He's feeling miserable at the moment. The accident couldn't have come at a worse time. Somehow I think it had to have had an effect, I just can't fathom Vino putting in a better TT than Jan. I haven't seen any pictures of the car, got a link? I have so many questions about Jan right now....why doesn't he have an f1 team? Why doesn't he have the specially designed skin suit? Why doesn't he go in the wind tunnel and do all these tests to minimize drag? Is it because it's just 'Jan' to do that, the guy from the old east german sports federation? One other thing, I know that discovery have some talented riders and seeing all the high placings, I just have to wonder how much of it is talent and how much of it is because of the f1 team? I mean Rubiera is a climber, yet he finishes not far behind Jan. Life is so fustrating when you're a Jan fan. 🙁

Ullefan said:

It's such a disapointment. I don't know what was worse, the crash or Lance passing him? He's feeling miserable at the moment. The accident couldn't have come at a worse time. Somehow I think it had to have had an effect, I just can't fathom Vino putting in a better TT than Jan. I haven't seen any pictures of the car, got a link? I have so many questions about Jan right now....why doesn't he have an f1 team? Why doesn't he have the specially designed skin suit? Why doesn't he go in the wind tunnel and do all these tests to minimize drag? Is it because it's just 'Jan' to do that, the guy from the old east german sports federation? One other thing, I know that discovery have some talented riders and seeing all the high placings, I just have to wonder how much of it is talent and how much of it is because of the f1 team? I mean Rubiera is a climber, yet he finishes not far behind Jan. Life is so fustrating when you're a Jan fan. 🙁

The bandage on his neck is huge : todays TV would have obscured what those of us in Europe saw last night on the TDF presentation.

There's a picture of Jan with the bandage in the pre-race parade on cyclingnews.com

musette said:

The reason JU got beaten so badly? LA is tons better than he is! LA is a better ITTist. LA is a better TTTist. LA is a better, and more quickly-adapting, climber. LA has a better team. LA has better equipment. LA has a more careful and coordinates better with his DS. LA has a better DS. Those are the reasons why! 😄

Jan and Lance have been neck and neck in the TT department throughout their careers, with a bit of a nod going to Jan.

Don't forget that Lance blew the prolog and later lost to Jan in a TT by a substantial margin in 2003, and still came back to win the Tour that year. Let's not read the world into what was clearly an off day for Jan. This could also be the spark that sets him on fire.

Soeaking of terrible finishes... What the devil happened to Mayo? Has he given up completely?

while i certainly feel bad for ullrich, there's no freakin' way he's gonna beat lance. he's the mark price to jordan. the carl malone, the reggie miller, the patrick ewing to jordan. lance is in his head for sure now and no amount of hoping otherwise will help. i can't wait for lance to be done so that we can finally see coverage of other american riders, this isn't going to be the year. he's hungry and it's up to him to drop the ball...and it's not going to happen! 😄

I DO NOT agree. 2003 was an abheration, relative to all the other years LA has won. Err, is that the only time since LA had cancer that JU beat LA in an ITT or TTT? 😄 😄 😄 Hm, how many Tours have they ridden together and how many times has JU won over LA in an ITT or TTT? :o

YYYYYaaaawwwwwnnnn! Prolog. Three weeks to go,crashes,illness bad luck to come for someone.Correction bad luck for many!
You guys have seen one of these races before,haven't you!
Anything can happen at this point.
Armstrong looks very strong ......but we will see!
Damn good entertainment, but cuts into my bike riding.
Those TT helmets are cool,don't you think?

limerickman said:

That bandage on Ullrich's neck is big - a lot bigger than would have been shown in the ITT today.

If any of you saw the Grand Depart presentation - the cut to Ullrich's neck and the bandage - was a lot more noticable than it was on today ITT (remember Ullrich's helmet and his position on the bike obscured the amount of bandage on tv today).

(Even the commentator at the Grand Depart last suggest that the JU's bandage was haemorraging).

]

From the quotes from some websites today after the stage , Jan's neck may not be the only thing hemmorging at the Tour. The biggest hemmorging seems to be the T-Mobile mangement. There is a quote from Jan Ullrich where he admits to be demoralized after Lance blew by him. And the "Gode's" comments about the commercial" aspects of T-Mobile's decisions. { I would post the quotes but I am not sure what the process to do that is. } I know Lance has critics, but the absolute professionalism of Discovery/Postal & Lance in the way they pick their TDF team and operate shows why they are the big boy on the block. { Next year & maybe this year, watch out for Mr. Riis and the boys of CSC}

Well the mentality of some on the board and directeur sportifs is just sooo typical: mentally everyone is allready cracked. Apart from Riis and his boys who are rightly happy with zabriskies performance.

Ullrich: "I went flat out, I gave all I had. Of course I'm not satisfied with the fact that Lance caught me. I don't know if it had anything to do with my crash yesterday. I did lose some blood. I didn't have the feeling of being so bad [on the road], so I'll continue fighting. It's not my lucky day getting overhauled by Lance. I would have liked to ride better, and gave it all - it wasn't a nice feeling when he passed me. I'm down over it at the moment, but the Tour lasts three weeks. We'll see what's in it in time."

Patrick lefevere: "This is the second time I have this happening with Rogers, that we expect great things from him and that he doesn't deliver," a rather annoyed Manager Patrick Lefevere commented to Sporza. "Probably he is not capable of dealing with the stress of the Tour. A topper needs to be able to do so though."

Breukink: 'We are not even looking at armstrong, he's from another planet'!
Boogerd: 'armstrong has kicked ass' (losely translation)

The bottomline is STRESS: Rogers, mcgee, ullrich, mayo and on and on just can't deal with it. And ofcourse the crash had something to do with the bad performance of ullrich. Still I heard pevenage and Godefroot talk to sporza and they just were completely out of words.......this came very hard in the Ullrich-camp!

Yet Godefroot still said they will all work for ullrich. I think that man is clueless............vino is obvious in better shape and is better in the mountains.

Oh and lets not forget an amazing ride by zabriskie AND armstrong.......maybe they were just so much faster then the rest, instead of finding excuses for the poor performance of the rest of the contenders!

Lance could be involved in a crash today, it could happen. Today is another day right?

MJtje said:

Yet Godefroot still said they will all work for ullrich. I think that man is clueless............vino is obvious in better shape and is better in the mountains.

Vino is 15 seconds ahead and he didn't have a crash the day before.
15 seconds ffs!!!

Remind me how many weeks racing we have left?

JU has more to worry about than his own performance. Here are the ITT times for the TM team, and then comparisons to the whole DC team. DC placed all riders (including the mountain goats -- even Beltran) in the top 70, with Paolo Savoldelli (the Giro two-time cham) in third TO LAST position on his own team, even lower than most mountain goats. Ace also had a sub-par ride -- he is normally a much better ITTist and is a wonderful TTTist. Ace came in second to last on his own team. DC is in very good form as a team. Bold font means very strong DC climbers.

As I have argued on the "which team is better" thread, DC has mountain goats who can TTT. Beltran is the worse ITTist, but even he isn't a bad TTTist. DC has the whole team (except Padrnos) having at least low-to-moderate mountain good climbing skills. on top of that, Ace, Chechu, Beltran, Popo can really stay with LA (at least two of them on every climb) for quite a while.

2 Lance Armstrong (USA) Discovery Channel 0.02
4 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel 0.57
16 Jose Luis Rubiera (Spa) Discovery Channel 1.16
17 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel 1.18
22 Benjamin Noval (Spa) Discovery Channel 1.28
31 Pavel Padrnos (Cze) Discovery Channel 1.34
32 Paolo Savoldelli (Ita) Discovery Channel 1.35
34 Jose Azevedo (Por) Discovery Channel 1.39
70 Manuel Beltran (Spa) Discovery Channel 2.14
Meanwhile, TM:

3 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) T-Mobile Team 0.53
12 Jan Ullrich (Ger) T-Mobile Team 1.08
51 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 2.00
88 Stephan Schreck (Ger) T-Mobile Team 2.29
89 Tobias Steinhauser (Ger) T-Mobile Team
98 Giuseppe Guerini (Ita) T-Mobile Team 2.31
117 Daniele Nardello (Ita) T-Mobile Team 2.43
125 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) T-Mobile Team 2.44
168 Matthias Kessler (Ger) T-Mobile Team 3.09

Well if that's what youre hoping for...............but youre right another day, another change. Still 3 weeks to race....not that it will change the outcome!

Ullefan said:

Lance could be involved in a crash today, it could happen. Today is another day right?

MJtje said:

Well if that's what youre hoping for...............but youre right another day, another change. Still 3 weeks to race....not that it will change the outcome!

I think Lance is well-overdue some bad luck. Hey at least I'm trying to be optimistic today. 😎

Taken from cyclingnews:

Jan Ullrich is demoralised from yesterday's stage one, where he lost 1 minute and six seconds on his biggest rival, Lance Armstrong. Although that time might not be an enormous setback as such since the Tour is still three weeks long, Armstrong's demonstration of power is above all a mental blow for the German. What's more, the 31 year-old can't put his finger on what went wrong. "My goal was to start off in the Tour with a good performance," he said. "I rode flat out [in the time trial] and didn't feel that bad. But to be passed by Armstrong on the first stage is of course not a nice feeling!

"I can't tell what was the reason for it. Maybe it does have something to do with the crash - I did lose dome blood. But I actually don't believe that."

Rudy Pevenage, his personal trainer, also doesn't have an explanation. "Armstrong and the others all rode under the same [meteorological] conditions - that's not an excuse."

Ullrich had to bury his hopes of putting time into Armstrong in the most terrible way - by being passed by the American. "The parcours suited me because it needed pure power. I already imagined myself ahead of Armstrong on GC before going into the mountains. I did feel pretty good, that's why I was optimistic. But Lance, of course, rode an excellent race and came in right behind the winner - I do feel a little demoralised. Anyway, the Tour lasts three weeks and I'll continue to fight."

You can't find a reason Rudy? How about Lance's F1 team? Yeah things have changed since your day Rudy, you can manipulate the conditions to your advantage...sigh...😠

It's too late for TM to do anything about it now, but DC does more training for the TTT and is more technically specialized in that discipline than TM. There are many reasons for this problem at TM, including recruiting, choice of TdF team, etc. The problems are systemic, and not isolated.

LA's F-1 team do things like: Figuring out whether the number on each cyclist's back creates too much drag and ways to reduce that; creation of the ITT/TTT suit to minimize seams and using different fabrics strategically in different parts of the suit, developing the TTx and its handlebars (its shape as a whole, use of boron to make it sturdier), placement in wind tunnel of certain key TTT domestiques (Hincapie, Ace, Popo), having Scott Daubert of Trek going to reconnaissance wind direction shortly before the race, etc.

Today is another for sure and there are three weeks to go - anything could and can happen between now and the finish.

I do think the injury to Ullrich is more serious than has been reported.

I don't know how many of you people posting comments here actually ever ride a bike and have suffered a crash.
But let me tell you for personal experience, even if you're not seriously injured (broken bones), a crash will leave you sore, in shock and tentative.
The fact that JU's crash on the eve of the TDF, he was bound to have not been performing at his best.

LA, correctly, capitalised on JU's travails in the ITT.
(even fate making JU LA's minute man compounded the effects of JU's travails).

But who is to know that LA will not have some ill luck (and I don't wish him ill luck) over the next three weeks ?

JU has to try to put yesterday out of his mind and try to overcome his injury as quickly as possible.
If his form doesn't improve (and there is plenty of time yet) - he should do the honourable thing and pull 100% for Vino.

I don't think JU should have to assist Vino. JU is the team leader; he does not have to help Vino, even though that's better for TM. JU should have Guerini, Sevilla continuing to work for him. If JU allows Vino to become leader, he will have this same problem of every year having to be in front of his domestiques or being asked to sacrifice his own interests.

If LA had lost 1 minute to Popo or Ace, nobody on DC would think that Popo or Ace should become the leader of DC. Similarly, JU should not conceded his team leadership -- it continues to set a bad precedent.

Basso is CSC's main GC contender, even though he didn't do too well. Do you see Riis saying that Jullich should now be the leader of CSC?

If somebody doesn't ride a bike, but they have more analytical methods and apply them, that doesn't mean they are less insightful than people who ride bikes. 😄 To me, it doesn't seem the most inclusive position for a member of the board's Community Team to be targeting posters based on whether they ride a bike or not.

Unless Lance has bad luck he will win number 7 no doubt. It then comes down to who will get 2nd and 3rd as early as the first stage! Even Jan has admitted in the past that to make up even 45 seconds on Lance is near impossible, and knowing that, I think he will completely cave in. I would suspect that by the end of the week Vino will be the clear team leader at T-Mobile. I have nothing against Jan, but it seems from last years performance and this years run up, he just isn't there as the main GC contender any more. If you were to take Lance out of the tour and look at the perfomances I don't think you would come up with Jan as the favorite to win. I don't think Jan will ever win another tour, he just is not at the same level as other riders any more.