What's up with rim?

if the rim's buckled, it is very hard to re-true the wheel. it's
possible to straighten a rim, but unless you're doing it yourself, it's
probably not cost effective if you can get the whole thing re-rimmed &
spoked for only $100.

_but_, and i think this much more likely, your lbs probably doesn't know
how to true the wheel very well. i had a buckled rear a few years back
and took it to a number of "highly reputable" shops to be re-trued.
they all failed in exactly the way you describe. the only builder that
knew what they were doing was the original builder - folks that can
build a wheel that /stays/ true are /very/ hard to find.

scottt said:

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been
riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump
and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it
goes back out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to
be replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+
miler and the POS goes untrue again. LBS says that Mavic backs their
stuff and will respoke (flat-style spoke) on a new rim for a tad more
than a 100 bucks... This seems like a good deal considering the price,
but the LBS say that this just happens every now and then and it
shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this a normal thing that can
happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade should I move on to a
stronger/lighter different company's set? Thanks. Scottt

Scottt said:

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been riding
on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump and the
true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it goes back
out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to be replaced
then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+ miler and the
POS goes untrue again. LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will
respoke (flat-style spoke) on a new rim for a tad more than a 100
bucks... This seems like a good deal considering the price, but the LBS
say that this just happens every now and then and it shouldn't sway my
opinin of Mavic... Is this a normal thing that can happen to all wheels,
or when I upgrade should I move on to a stronger/lighter different
company's set? Thanks. Scottt

If you "hit a bump" with sufficient force you can dent the rim. Once
damaged it is very difficult to true a wheel by adjusting spoke
tension. Tension likes to be in balance and the rim will bend to make
it so... over time and as you ride. If this is a front wheel you can
get a decent one for around $100, but it won't be a cosmetic match for
your existing rear.

Stronger and lighter work in oposite directions of compromise in a
wheel.

--

Scott-<< Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been

Quoted message said:

riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump
and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it
goes back out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to
be replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Rim is bent, warped, sick, Needs to be rebuilt. With a locally built wheel, it
could be done faster and the wheelset could have been designed for you in the
first place. These, along with standard Ksyriums are awash with marketing, low
on delivery.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been
riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump
and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it
goes back out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to
be replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+
miler and the POS goes untrue again.

Sounds like a poor build/fix.

Quoted message said:

LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke (flat-style spoke) on a
new rim for a tad more than a 100 bucks... This seems like a good deal
considering the price, but the LBS say that this just happens every now and

then and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this a normal thing that

Quoted message said:

can happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade should I move on to a
stronger/lighter different company's set? Thanks. Scottt

Charging you $100 to fix a wheel is backing their stuff? They sucked the
cash out of your wallet when you bought them and now they want to suck some
more out. Get some custom built wheels using standard parts.
----------
Alex

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

folks that can
build a wheel that /stays/ true are /very/ hard to find.

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself.
--------------
Alex

(scottt) said:

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been
riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump
and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it
goes back out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had
to be replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a
40+ miler and the POS goes untrue again.

A little more information- how much do you weigh, are you carrying
anything on your bike (saddlebag, panniers, etc.), do you "ride light"
over bumps?

Quoted message said:

LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke (flat-style
spoke) on a new rim for a tad more than a 100 bucks... This seems
like a good deal considering the price,

A "good deal" compared to what? And why respoke the wheel? If the
spokes are not breaking, they're not the problem. There's something
else wrong- spoke tension is too low or too high, the rim is starting
to crack, or something. A competent wheel builder would be able to
diagnose the problem and sort it out for you.

Quoted message said:

but the LBS say that this just happens every now and then and it
shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic...

It should sway your opinion of the suitability of this wheel... and
the competence of your bike shop.

Quoted message said:

Is this a normal thing that can happen to all wheels, or when I
upgrade should I move on to a stronger/lighter different company's
set?

It's not normal and is the result of either bad design, bad building
or some sort of materials failure- or any combination of these
factors. The spokes are undertensioned, overtensioned or unevenly
tensioned, I suspect. Or there's some material failure happening- the
spoke nipples are cracking, the rim is cracking around the spoke
holes, the eyelets are pulling through the rim, something.

I've got wheels that have been in use 6-8 years for about 3,000 miles
a year per set, and none of them show this sort of problem. Some of
those wheels have about 20,000 miles on them with no spoke failures,
nipple failures or rim failures and only occasional touch up truing
has been needed. I weigh 215 lbs and am 6'4", and am reasonably
strong although perhaps not as strong as when I was a few years
younger and still raced. OTOH I do much longer rides now, interests
having changed with <ahem> maturity, but am using the same bikes and
wheels. Generally speaking, these are 32 spoke, 3x wheels ranging
from 7 to 9 speed (the exception being some 26"-ers).

Thanks!!! That's what I'm thinking too Alex...
Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been
riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump
and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it
goes back out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to
be replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+
miler and the POS goes untrue again.

Sounds like a poor build/fix.

Quoted message said:

LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke (flat-style spoke) on a
new rim for a tad more than a 100 bucks... This seems like a good deal
considering the price, but the LBS say that this just happens every now and

then and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this a normal thing that

Quoted message said:

can happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade should I move on to a
stronger/lighter different company's set? Thanks. Scottt

Charging you $100 to fix a wheel is backing their stuff? They sucked the
cash out of your wallet when you bought them and now they want to suck some
more out. Get some custom built wheels using standard parts.
----------
Alex

Thanks!!! That's what I'm thinking too Alex...
Alex Rodriguez <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Anyone know anything about the Mavic Ksyrium "Elite" wheel? Been
riding on them for more than a year and all of a sudden I hit a bump
and the true goes outta whack. The boys at my LBS true it up and it
goes back out the following ride. Next time in a couple nipples had to
be replaced then trued, and then again I'm out the door. I do a 40+
miler and the POS goes untrue again.

Sounds like a poor build/fix.

Quoted message said:

LBS says that Mavic backs their stuff and will respoke (flat-style spoke) on a
new rim for a tad more than a 100 bucks... This seems like a good deal
considering the price, but the LBS say that this just happens every now and

then and it shouldn't sway my opinin of Mavic... Is this a normal thing that

Quoted message said:

can happen to all wheels, or when I upgrade should I move on to a
stronger/lighter different company's set? Thanks. Scottt

Charging you $100 to fix a wheel is backing their stuff? They sucked the
cash out of your wallet when you bought them and now they want to suck some
more out. Get some custom built wheels using standard parts.
----------
Alex

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

Alex Rodriguez said:

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

folks that can
build a wheel that /stays/ true are /very/ hard to find.

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself.
--------------
Alex

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not mention the need
to install a rim tape before tensioning.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?

David Damerell said:

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not mention the need
to install a rim tape before tensioning.

Why do you need to do this? My copy of "TBW" doesn't mention it
either. I've never done it.

Plus, the point would be completely moot with tubulars, no, as they
don't use rim tape?

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself. --------------

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

Mmm, petulant resentment. My favourite!

--
Benjamin Lewis

Although the moon is smaller than the earth, it is farther away.

Bill Lloyd said:

Quoted message said:

David Damerell said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not mention the need
to install a rim tape before tensioning.

Quoted message said:

Why do you need to do this? My copy of "TBW" doesn't mention it
either. I've never done it.

Plus, the point would be completely moot with tubulars, no, as they
don't use rim tape?

The reasoning is that the rim strip will help to constrain a spoke which
breaks during tensioning and is launched into the face of the
wheelbuilder.

I have never used a rim strip for that purpose, preferring to stand a
little to the side. That works for tubulars too.

--
Ted Bennett
Portland OR

Benjamin Lewis said:

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself. --------------

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

Mmm, petulant resentment. My favourite!

interesting in depth analysis.

sheldon's site is superb and it doesn't cost anyone a dime to read. i
don't see why stating that opinion would be a problem. you're not
forced to read it.

David Damerell <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?

Can you please keep the discussion to technical issues surrounding
bicycles?

Thanks.

Quoted message said:

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not mention the need
to install a rim tape before tensioning.

The "need" doesn't exist. It's nice, but not necessary - if you aim
the spoke toward your workbench, table, floor, etc., a broken spoke
won't do anything except surprise you, and maybe put a mark in the
surface below the wheel. It's nice to have the nipples accessible in
case you get a bit ham-fisted and round off a nipple. If you're using
Al alloy nipples, this is a real possiblity.

Sheldon's wheelbuild stuff has the advantage of being free, and not
"encumbered" by "useless" scientific info surrounding the physics of
bicycle wheels. I put these things in quotes because while I find
them interesting and informative, the knowledge therein is not
strictly required to build a good wheel. Just follow Mr. Browns
instructions, and you'll have what you seek, in a bicycle sense.
--
Jonesy

David Damerell said:

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez said:

Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have to
look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

That axe sharp enough yet, sock puppet boy?

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not mention the need
to install a rim tape before tensioning.

Dear David,

Anyone using Jobst's book should note the same thing, unless
something about rim tape was added in his third edition.

On page 102, Jobst does say:

"WARNING

Tensioning spokes can be dangerous. A spoke that ruptures
under tension can be shot from the rim into your eye, like
an arrow from a crossbow. Never face directly into the line
of the spokes while working on the wheel."

This sounds like better safety advice than hoping that a
rim tape will stop a broken spoke.

I'm tempted to experiment with a pair of bolt cutters, but
I'm hoping that someone like Sheldon Brown or Andrew Muzi
with piles of wheels, yards of rim tape, and inquiring minds
will experiment and let us know whether rim tape will indeed
stop a well-tensioned spoke cut near the elbow, the most
common kind of failure.

On the one hand, broken spokes don't puncture inner tubes,
so the force of broken spoke may not be very high. A much
broader crossbow bolt, after all, will easily go through the
gentle reader and his twin brother.

On the other hand, the human eye has a pressure of only
around 22mm Hg and is somewhat more delicate and difficult
to repair or replace than a high-pressure bicycle tube.

"Caution: do not look into laser with remaining eyeball."

Carl Fogel

jim beam said:

Benjamin Lewis said:

jim beam said:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

> Get a copy of 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt and you won't have
> to look for a decent builder. You can do it yourself. --------------

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html is better.

Mmm, petulant resentment. My favourite!

interesting in depth analysis.

sheldon's site is superb and it doesn't cost anyone a dime to read.

I agree.

Quoted message said:

i don't see why stating that opinion would be a problem.

It wouldn't have been. They're both excellent resources.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
-- Walt Kelly

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Anyone using Sheldon's page should note that it does not mention the
need to install a rim tape before tensioning.

Dear David,

Anyone using Jobst's book should note the same thing, unless
something about rim tape was added in his third edition.

On page 102, Jobst does say:

"WARNING

Tensioning spokes can be dangerous. A spoke that ruptures
under tension can be shot from the rim into your eye, like
an arrow from a crossbow. Never face directly into the line
of the spokes while working on the wheel."

This sounds like better safety advice than hoping that a
rim tape will stop a broken spoke.

From the 3rd edition, page 95:

WARNING
Tensioning spokes can be dangerous. A spoke can rupture under tension and
shoot from the rim, like an arrow from a crossbow, into your eye. Never
face directly into the line of the spokes while tensioning a wheel.
Installing a rim tape now will prevent this from occurring.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Don't take life so serious, son, it ain't nohow permanent.
-- Walt Kelly

Quoted message said:

I'm tempted to experiment with a pair of bolt cutters, but
I'm hoping that someone like Sheldon Brown or Andrew Muzi
with piles of wheels, yards of rim tape, and inquiring minds
will experiment and let us know whether rim tape will indeed
stop a well-tensioned spoke cut near the elbow, the most
common kind of failure.

plastic rimtape works fine, suddenly cutting a spoke from a well
tensioned wheel is a good way to make your audience jump 😉

--
---
Marten Gerritsen

INFOapestaartjeM-GINEERINGpuntNL
www.m-gineering.nl