What's more dangerous?

According to reports, Raisin suffered an epilepsy attack, which could
spell the end of his career when he recovers if they can't control it.
As for the danger, I think it's all relative, but the likelihood of
crashing and dying seems lower than in NASCAR considering the number of
bike crashes there are. I'd consider how more guys weren't killed or
permanently injured before the intro of hard shell helmets. I've seen
crashes from the 70's that are amazing.

One of my worse crashes was relatively low speed at a cross race;
probable concussion and bruised/cracked ribs. It just all depends.

CH

Quoted message said:

According to reports, Raisin suffered an epilepsy attack, which could
spell the end of his career when he recovers if they can't control it.
As for the danger, I think it's all relative, but the likelihood of
crashing and dying seems lower than in NASCAR considering the number of
bike crashes there are. I'd consider how more guys weren't killed or
permanently injured before the intro of hard shell helmets. I've seen
crashes from the 70's that are amazing.

One of my worse crashes was relatively low speed at a cross race;
probable concussion and bruised/cracked ribs. It just all depends.

CH

Hey Chris
Here's a link listing most of the fatalities in the last couple of
decadesup until 2001 there have been a couple since:

http://www2.foxsports.com/obits/earnhardt/driver_deaths.sml

They don't seperate drivers killed in training fromm those in races,
and I think this is where cycling takes a beating in particular. Maybe
it's just because we don't see the reports of auto racers in the lower
ranks being injured/killed, but my sense is that there have been more
deaths and massive injuries in training and racing for cycling than in
auto racing as a whole. This might very well be due to the fact that
tons more people race bicycles than cars, but I have found per/capita
injury/fatality rates for both sports to compare.
The ongoing litany of riders who've been picked off by cars, or
crashed in races just gets pretty depressing sometimes.
Bill C

Bill C said:

With the newest round of crashes and Saul's injury I got to thinking,
again, about just how dangerous this sport is. Usually I get to this
after doing occurrence reports, nothing like loading friends or someone
you were just talking with into a meatwagon, or when someone I know in
the region gets hit by a moron in a car.
I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be better to watch bike
races for the crashes, blood, and gore than auto racing. Seems to me
that auto racing crashes are more spectacular, but usually a lot less
injurious. If you add in all the riders killed or splatted in training,
then I think cycling definitely is much more dangerous than auto
racing.
Time to stop ragging on Nascar fans for watching cars go in a circle
while waiting for a crash, since that seems to cover the Crit circuit
pretty well too, except that nobody's really watching.
Bill C

Time for you ignorant numbnuts to get past the worn out, cliche'd
belief that NASCAR fans are waiting for crashes. NASCAR is about so
much more than that. You'd probably never understand 'cause you're too
busy bad mouthing it to try to understand it. The growing legion of
fans understand.

Fred

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Bill C said:

With the newest round of crashes and Saul's injury I got to thinking,
again, about just how dangerous this sport is. Usually I get to this
after doing occurrence reports, nothing like loading friends or someone
you were just talking with into a meatwagon, or when someone I know in
the region gets hit by a moron in a car.
I'm coming to the conclusion that it would be better to watch bike
races for the crashes, blood, and gore than auto racing. Seems to me
that auto racing crashes are more spectacular, but usually a lot less
injurious. If you add in all the riders killed or splatted in training,
then I think cycling definitely is much more dangerous than auto
racing.
Time to stop ragging on Nascar fans for watching cars go in a circle
while waiting for a crash, since that seems to cover the Crit circuit
pretty well too, except that nobody's really watching.
Bill C

Time for you ignorant numbnuts to get past the worn out, cliche'd
belief that NASCAR fans are waiting for crashes. NASCAR is about so
much more than that. You'd probably never understand 'cause you're too
busy bad mouthing it to try to understand it. The growing legion of
fans understand.

Fred

Damn right, Fred.
http://shanedog.home.mindspring.com/NascarExp_files/image006.jpg
http://www.strangesports.com/images/content/12610.jpg
cabl.comNascar%20fan.jpgOpen ↗
http://www.hategun.com/blog/images/redneck.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/photo_88/dover999/fans1.jpg
http://www.nascarmoments.com/personal_pictures/at_the_races/thm_LMS_Oct_2002.jpg
http://motorsportsforum.com/photos/data/519/15bs27-med.jpg

Bill C said:

Quoted message said:

According to reports, Raisin suffered an epilepsy attack, which could
spell the end of his career when he recovers if they can't control it.
As for the danger, I think it's all relative, but the likelihood of
crashing and dying seems lower than in NASCAR ...

Quoted message said:

Here's a link listing most of the fatalities in the last couple of
decadesup until 2001 there have been a couple since:

http://www2.foxsports.com/obits/earnhardt/driver_deaths.sml

They don't seperate drivers killed in training fromm those in races,
and I think this is where cycling takes a beating in particular. Maybe
it's just because we don't see the reports of auto racers in the lower
ranks being injured/killed, but my sense is that there have been more
deaths and massive injuries in training and racing for cycling than in
auto racing as a whole. This might very well be due to the fact that
tons more people race bicycles than cars, but I have found per/capita
injury/fatality rates for both sports to compare.
The ongoing litany of riders who've been picked off by cars, or
crashed in races just gets pretty depressing sometimes.

I hope for the best for Saul Raisin. It is a tough and unforgiving
sport and we ask our athletes to go out and do it wearing little more
than clothing that would be skimpy for even a friendly game of
dodgeball.

If he did have an epileptic attack, you gotta remember it
could have happened anytime (so far as I understand epilepsy,
which is not very much). He could have been a civilian driving
to the grocery store and gone off the road. NASCAR drivers
may not get hurt often in training, but everyday drivers get hurt
on the road, just as everyday cyclists do. Racers who spend six
hours a day training are at a higher risk of something happening -
but so are delivery guys or anyone else whose job puts them in
a car all day.

Bike racing is moderately dangerous but it doesn't help to get
overly fretful. Excuse me for digressing into an anecdote. At
my previous job, many people rode bikes to the university.
A co-worker of mine (not a racer) worked late, as he often did,
and was riding down the long hill home when he apparently
dozed off. He went over the bars and did his collarbone.
(A couple of months later he was riding again.)

Our boss, who is a very smart person but not really interested
in any type of sport or exercise activity, felt that this was an
example that reinforced her belief that cycling was inherently
dangerous and too risky. (It must be said that the grad students
were regularly scraping themselves up, so she did have some
evidence.) I thought rather that she should be asking why her
underlings were working so late that they fell asleep on the
way home. And what would have happened if he'd fallen asleep
while driving down the hill at 45 mph instead.

Quoted message said:

http://www.hategun.com/blog/images/redneck.jpg

Brian, Are you a closet NASCAR fan ? I want to go to a race this summer to
see what it is all about. Do you want to join me Brian ? Maybe you could
wear a tye dye Neil Young shirt while listening to "southern man".

Southern change
gonna come at last

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted post said:

NASCAR drivers may not get hurt often in training, but everyday
drivers get hurt on the road, just as everyday cyclists do. Racers
who spend six hours a day training are at a higher risk of
something happening - but so are delivery guys or anyone else whose
job puts them in a car all day.

Exactly - it's the exposure rate.

Quoted message said:

Bike racing is moderately dangerous but it doesn't help to get
overly fretful. Excuse me for digressing into an anecdote. At
my previous job, many people rode bikes to the university.
A co-worker of mine (not a racer) worked late, as he often did,
and was riding down the long hill home when he apparently
dozed off. He went over the bars and did his collarbone.
(A couple of months later he was riding again.)

Our boss, who is a very smart person but not really interested
in any type of sport or exercise activity, felt that this was an
example that reinforced her belief that cycling was inherently
dangerous and too risky. (It must be said that the grad students
were regularly scraping themselves up, so she did have some
evidence.) I thought rather that she should be asking why her
underlings were working so late that they fell asleep on the
way home. And what would have happened if he'd fallen asleep
while driving down the hill at 45 mph instead.

And who else might have ended up as a victim. BTW, I thought that "worked
until they were ready to pass out" was SOP for grad students.

--
tanx,
Howard

Grandma Smith said a curious thing
Boys must whistle, girls must sing

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Quoted message said:

Our boss, who is a very smart person but not really interested
in any type of sport or exercise activity, felt that this was an
example that reinforced her belief that cycling was inherently
dangerous and too risky. (It must be said that the grad students
were regularly scraping themselves up, so she did have some
evidence.) I thought rather that she should be asking why her
underlings were working so late that they fell asleep on the
way home. And what would have happened if he'd fallen asleep
while driving down the hill at 45 mph instead.

He must have been one of the few clean astrophysics student (or his
stimulant budget ran out before the end of the month).

That's why we need testing at all levels of the sport!

"Charles" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

http://www.hategun.com/blog/images/redneck.jpg

Brian, Are you a closet NASCAR fan ? I want to go to a race this summer to
see what it is all about. Do you want to join me Brian ? Maybe you could
wear a tye dye Neil Young shirt while listening to "southern man".

Southern change
gonna come at last

I've been to one NASCAR race (at Talladega--Sp?) and to one Formula 1 up in
Canada; both many years ago. I'd be happy to see F1 live once again. I'll
pass on NASCAR--because I find the format boring. The fans are not as
interesting as the F1 people, especially the female groupies.

Howard Kveck said:

And who else might have ended up as a victim. BTW, I thought that "worked
until they were ready to pass out" was SOP for grad students.

Darn, I'm still doing the more-than-occasional 36-hour day and I'm twice
the age I used to be...

Stu Fleming said:

Howard Kveck said:

And who else might have ended up as a victim. BTW, I thought that
"worked until they were ready to pass out" was SOP for grad students.

Darn, I'm still doing the more-than-occasional 36-hour day and I'm twice
the age I used to be...

What a coincidence. So am I!

In article said:

Howard Kveck said:

And who else might have ended up as a victim. BTW, I thought that
"worked
until they were ready to pass out" was SOP for grad students.

Darn, I'm still doing the more-than-occasional 36-hour day and I'm twice
the age I used to be...

Work will set you free.

--
tanx,
Howard

Grandma Smith said a curious thing
Boys must whistle, girls must sing

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill C said:

An awful lot of these newfangled fans couldn't tell you the
difference between a torsion bar and tie rod end. The first car I
actually worked on was a street stock that won several track
chamopionships here in New England in about 1980. I din't do much
except chase coffee, sweep up, and run for parts, but at least I was
there. Let's try out some names on you. Bugsy Stevens, Reggie Rugerrio,
Luke Scanlon, Greg Sachs, the Bodines, etc... I could keep listing
people but that's a jackoff play.

Jeez, at least you could have listed Richie Evans. Nine titles, including
eight in a row. He was the Eddie Merckx of modifieds.

--
tanx,
Howard

Grandma Smith said a curious thing
Boys must whistle, girls must sing

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Yeah it was fun watching some of the Nascar stars come up to Stafford
Motor Speedway and get their ass kicked by Richie and the boys. There
was some serious talent racing out here back then.

http://www.staffordmotorspeedway.com/Pages/About%20The%20Track/TrackHistory.htm
Bill C

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill C said:

An awful lot of these newfangled fans couldn't tell you the
difference between a torsion bar and tie rod end. The first car I
actually worked on was a street stock that won several track
chamopionships here in New England in about 1980. I din't do much
except chase coffee, sweep up, and run for parts, but at least I was
there. Let's try out some names on you. Bugsy Stevens, Reggie Rugerrio,
Luke Scanlon, Greg Sachs, the Bodines, etc... I could keep listing
people but that's a jackoff play.

Jeez, at least you could have listed Richie Evans. Nine titles, including
eight in a row. He was the Eddie Merckx of modifieds.

--
tanx,
Howard

Grandma Smith said a curious thing
Boys must whistle, girls must sing

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?