what other exercises help your flutter kick?

Notgiven said:

I've heard bicycling or running helps but I wonder about weight lifting -
leg presses, half-spats, extensions and curls?

My issue is that my legs run out of steam before the race is over in
freestyle.

Any ideas?

Often the kick dies simply because the midsection is no longer able to
sync the hips and shoulders. My advice is to first: kick more, faster,
longer, harder and second: engage in the core strength program of your
choice.

-Mike

"Michael Edey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Notgiven said:

I've heard bicycling or running helps but I wonder about weight lifting -
leg presses, half-spats, extensions and curls?

My issue is that my legs run out of steam before the race is over in
freestyle.

Any ideas?

Often the kick dies simply because the midsection is no longer able to
sync the hips and shoulders. My advice is to first: kick more, faster,
longer, harder and second: engage in the core strength program of your
choice.

-Mike

I had not thought of the core (read, upper-lower-link). Good idea - thanks

Any leg-specific swimming work-outs?

I have noticed that when I use a kickboard my flutter kick form changes.
does using a kickboard help with the form of the normal flutter kick or is
it mostly a leg strengthening exercise?

Pat

It's possible to load the kick a fair big. Big muscles used to doing
lots of work. Given that overloading the legs enough to get 1/2 decent
adaptation can require some determination. I like to mix up my kick
work to trick myself into hurting in new ways. Surprise trumps
anticipation any way 😉

Some thoughts:

-Fins. Fins can help with rhythm and flexibility. If you can hold the
same tempo with fins there's some strength work to be had too. I like
to sprint with my fins. Zoomers (short fins) can also be usefull for
sprinting full stroke. They're short enough that it's not too much
trouble to use them without disrupting stroke timing.

-Verticle kick. If you've got a deep enough spot (think at least a
meter deeper than you are tall) you can do verticle kick without
distracting ground effects. The idea is to kick 'to the ceiling'
straight out of the pool. Long and tall, no sagging hips. You can play
with intensities by requiring more (or less) of your body to be held
out of the water. Can you keep your chin out? Chin and elbows? Armpits
and elbows and hands? Chin and streamlines?

-Overkick. Lots of people can swim fast, many can kick well with a
board. Can you swim fast over kick? Slow hands, fast feet. Hold stroke
rhythm. Not just freestyle. Overkick fly can be a challenge. The trick
isn't to add kicks but to kick faster. Lead with the kick.

-Streamline kicking. Kicking on a board is well and good but kicking
without one can test one's balance a little. Tight streamlines, one
armed streamlines (without waving the out stretched hand or letting the
body sag), kicking on your back or sides. If the pool isn't to crowded
one can try turning 5m early - no push requires a _hard_ kick to start
moving again. no cheating by pulling and breathing immediately after
the flip.

-6 kick flip. See above but sommersault every 6 strokes, or 4 or 8 or
10. Be disciplined - no breathing on the last stroke in or the first
stroke out of a flip.

-6 beat switch. One hand up, one hand down, face down, body rolled to
the side. Scull and kick for the count of 6. 1/2 a stroke to switch to
the other side. Try to keep the hips up and the kick consistant. No
pauses, no scissor kick.

-1 stroke BR, 1 stroke Fly. Alternate strokes with no glide, pauses or
hitches. Drive both strokes from the kick. No breathing on the fly.
Lots of snap.

-Kick/swim. Try kick sprints that lead into over kick. ie: 75's 25 u/w
lung busters + 50 Overkick. Try to hold the same foot speed through the
transition.

-Stretching. Flexibility is often an issue with kick effeciency. I've
got reasonable ankle flexibility and can kick ok but often my kick
won't feel right without some stretching. A set I've done when the my
fly kick (and, therefore, usually the whole stroke too) won't come
together:
4x100 Fly k @ 2:00. Roll 90deg every 25m
3-4:00 ankle & achilles stretching
5x50 Fly k @ 1:10. 25m @ back (tight streamline), 25 @ front (hold
stremaline tight through the middle back)
4-5:00 stretching
6x25 Fly kick with Fins @ 1:00. Fast. _Really_ fast. No breathing.
3-400m Fly drill. Anchor the head, snap the feet. Try to regain
feeling in your legs 🙂.

--Mike

I'm not a big fan of kick boards. Often one holds their head too high,
their hips too low and as a result bend their knees too much. While the
knees should flex it's not the principle action. The kick should lead
with the knee much like any other kick. Bruce Lee didn't kick with
locked knees, nor did his foot flop at then end of his leg. Lead with
the knee, snap the foot.

Try standing on deck, left toes aligned with the right heel. Roll the
foot forward so the left toes are pointed, slightly behind the right
foot, shin vertical, knee up. Snap the left foot forward.

Kicking with your head too high tends to load the quads over much.
Result: too much knee bend, too much effort on the up beat.

I don't like kick boards though I do get my kids to some work with
them. Mostly timed or test sets where consistancy is more important
than usual.

--Mike

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's possible to load the kick a fair big. Big muscles used to doing
lots of work. Given that overloading the legs enough to get 1/2 decent
adaptation can require some determination. I like to mix up my kick
work to trick myself into hurting in new ways. Surprise trumps
anticipation any way 😉

Some thoughts:

-Fins. Fins can help with rhythm and flexibility. If you can hold the
same tempo with fins there's some strength work to be had too. I like
to sprint with my fins. Zoomers (short fins) can also be usefull for
sprinting full stroke. They're short enough that it's not too much
trouble to use them without disrupting stroke timing.

-Verticle kick. If you've got a deep enough spot (think at least a
meter deeper than you are tall) you can do verticle kick without
distracting ground effects. The idea is to kick 'to the ceiling'
straight out of the pool. Long and tall, no sagging hips. You can play
with intensities by requiring more (or less) of your body to be held
out of the water. Can you keep your chin out? Chin and elbows? Armpits
and elbows and hands? Chin and streamlines?

-Overkick. Lots of people can swim fast, many can kick well with a
board. Can you swim fast over kick? Slow hands, fast feet. Hold stroke
rhythm. Not just freestyle. Overkick fly can be a challenge. The trick
isn't to add kicks but to kick faster. Lead with the kick.

-Streamline kicking. Kicking on a board is well and good but kicking
without one can test one's balance a little. Tight streamlines, one
armed streamlines (without waving the out stretched hand or letting the
body sag), kicking on your back or sides. If the pool isn't to crowded
one can try turning 5m early - no push requires a _hard_ kick to start
moving again. no cheating by pulling and breathing immediately after
the flip.

-6 kick flip. See above but sommersault every 6 strokes, or 4 or 8 or
10. Be disciplined - no breathing on the last stroke in or the first
stroke out of a flip.

-6 beat switch. One hand up, one hand down, face down, body rolled to
the side. Scull and kick for the count of 6. 1/2 a stroke to switch to
the other side. Try to keep the hips up and the kick consistant. No
pauses, no scissor kick.

-1 stroke BR, 1 stroke Fly. Alternate strokes with no glide, pauses or
hitches. Drive both strokes from the kick. No breathing on the fly.
Lots of snap.

-Kick/swim. Try kick sprints that lead into over kick. ie: 75's 25 u/w
lung busters + 50 Overkick. Try to hold the same foot speed through the
transition.

-Stretching. Flexibility is often an issue with kick effeciency. I've
got reasonable ankle flexibility and can kick ok but often my kick
won't feel right without some stretching. A set I've done when the my
fly kick (and, therefore, usually the whole stroke too) won't come
together:
4x100 Fly k @ 2:00. Roll 90deg every 25m
3-4:00 ankle & achilles stretching
5x50 Fly k @ 1:10. 25m @ back (tight streamline), 25 @ front (hold
stremaline tight through the middle back)
4-5:00 stretching
6x25 Fly kick with Fins @ 1:00. Fast. _Really_ fast. No breathing.
3-400m Fly drill. Anchor the head, snap the feet. Try to regain
feeling in your legs 🙂.

--Mike

Great drills - thanks Mike!

I can NOT kick fast or for long using a kick board. In fact, I have to use
two boards to keep me afloat because I tend to sink without them.

I think I also need to learn to swim more horizontally. I migh tbe plowing
a little now.

Thanks again!

On Tue, 14 Mar 2006 14:31:18 -0500, Notgiven wrote:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Great drills - thanks Mike!

I hope they prove useful.

Quoted message said:

I can NOT kick fast or for long using a kick board. In fact, I have to use
two boards to keep me afloat because I tend to sink without them.

One thing you might want to check on in such cases is body position. most
bodies, assuming the lungs have any air in them at all, enjoy positive
buoyancy. If you're sinking you might just have to lower your head, lean
forward a bit and incline the board a couple degrees. A kickboard
shouldn't be a floatation aid. Properly used it's merely a 'streamline
prosthesis' - it gives your hands an easy place to rest without breaking
streamline to badly.

Quoted message said:

I think I also need to learn to swim morehorizontally. I migh tbe
plowing a little now.

Body position and balance account for an awful lot. As I mentioned above
your body as a collective unit probably floats reasonably well. It's rare
that one doesn't. That being said most of your bits won't float even if
they do 'on average'. If you're interested in some of the reasons why and
some of the resulting theories espoused here you can search for: "miller's
torque" and "lordosis".

Happy swimming!

--Mike

Notgiven said:

I've heard bicycling or running helps but I wonder about weight lifting -
leg presses, half-spats, extensions and curls?

My issue is that my legs run out of steam before the race is over in
freestyle.

Any ideas?

As others responded, you need to work on more flutter kicking. For
proper flutter kicking, you need to focus on position. You need to grab
the board by the edge with your ams extended over it and your elbows
locked. Ideally, you need a rigid board. I think that flexible boards
suck. It should keep your arms and head afloat. You need to try to
extend the body, and point your toes and you nshould keep your head
above water. You shouldn't need to put your head under to keep your
boday afloat. This position should create an arch in your lower back
with your butt and your shoulders slightly higher than your back. This
position also forces to stretch your back and hamstrings more than you
are used to. If you aren't too flexible, you will get cramps on your
hamstrings.

You may need to stretch and to do back arches to build your lower back.
then, kick a lot. kicking like this will improve your overall potition
in the water. Once you master this position, Your legs will float
easier and even if you don't kick as much you will not sink.

Another thing that you can do to improve your kicking is to do
waterpolo and lifeguard drills. In other words, swim with your head out
of the water. this will force you to kick more. To make it more fun,
get a ball. Swim with your head out of the water and try to keep the
ball between your arms. These drills will force you to arch your lower
back to keep your butt and legs afloat.

Andres