What now Vino????

And he is no longer in the top 10. I thought better of him. Oh well.

I really like Vino but I must admit that I was getting very fed up of that funny colored kt he was wearing. The fashion police should have arrested him a long time ago.

996vtwin said:

I really like Vino but I must admit that I was getting very fed up of that funny colored kt he was wearing. The fashion police should have arrested him a long time ago.

lol i agree. i was really hoping to see vino on the podium, but i guess that outfit is just too silly. :p

The guy has one bad day and you lot say he's a [censored] rider.

Lucky you lot weren't around in 1993-1996, you'd have said the same about
LA !

limerickman said:

The guy has one bad day and you lot say he's a [censored] rider.

Lucky you lot weren't around in 1993-1996, you'd have said the same about
LA !

Agreed, in principle. Vino has a fine bike racer who had a miserable day today; In general, any team should consider itself lucky to have him. I think, however, that the potshots that are being taken at him today are the result of Vino having some particularly brash comments about his team's impeccable tactics thrown back in his face.

rejobako said:

Agreed, in principle. Vino has a fine bike racer who had a miserable day today; In general, any team should consider itself lucky to have him. I think, however, that the potshots that are being taken at him today are the result of Vino having some particularly brash comments about his team's impeccable tactics thrown back in his face.

I didn't see any comments from Vino about tactics, I have to say.

The only comment I read was that he was in the TDF to support JU for overall GC.
But even if he did make disparaging comments, the guy is a hell of a bike rider, regardless.

limerickman said:

The guy has one bad day and you lot say he's a [censored] rider.

Lucky you lot weren't around in 1993-1996, you'd have said the same about
LA !

That was a decade ago....

rejobako said:

Agreed, in principle. Vino has a fine bike racer who had a miserable day today; In general, any team should consider itself lucky to have him. I think, however, that the potshots that are being taken at him today are the result of Vino having some particularly brash comments about his team's impeccable tactics thrown back in his face.

Oh gosh, who cares what he's said? It's sport, man! A little trash talk makes it interesting. Yeah, bad day for Vino today, but after a few great days, who cares. The guy is a class rider with some major wins this year. Props to him.

limerickman said:

I didn't see any comments from Vino about tactics, I have to say.

The only comment I read was that he was in the TDF to support JU for overall GC.

Vino has been feeling his oats lately:

"Jan [Ullrich], Andreas [Klöden] and I are all towards the top of the general classification and we have managed to show Armstrong on Saturday that we could attack him from all sides. Until now, we had never had the opportunity to start the Tour together and it’s a considerable advantage. I personally never thought that Armstrong was unbeatable."

“The instructions are very clear: the team will work for whoever turns out to be the strongest of the three of us… We know that, with two or even three of us, we can pool our resources to endanger Armstrong,”

"The only team which could make me leave T-Mobile is Discovery Channel. I’ll certainly be making a choice between those two,” (This comment in particular troubles me, in that it suggests that an offer has been made and that Vino is considering it. Even if true, it seems like a slap in the face to T-Mobile to make this admission in the midst of a Tour battle. If it's not true, then Vino is counting his chickens a bit too early (one of them leads him in the GC now, in fact. 😉 )

Vino has made other comments recently in which he's been a little dismissive of Disco's tactics, along the lines of "I won't ride that way; I only know how to attack, etc." In context, the implication is that Disco's methods are worthy of disdain as opposed to his risk-taking style. As I have said, while I applaud cyclists like Vino who have taken risks and made the Tour more exciting, and while I think the traditional romantic notion of the "go for it all" cyclist is an appealing one, in the end the guy standing at the top of the podium on the last day usually looks pretty good, even if he's cold and calculating in his process to get there.

tcklyde said:

Oh gosh, who cares what he's said? It's sport, man! A little trash talk makes it interesting.

Your position seems contradictory. You suggest his words should be seen as irrelevant, then point out that they make the event more interesting, which is more to the point, in my opinion. The reason trashtalking is interesting isn't solely in the words spoken, but in the anticipation of making a man eat those words when he falls on his face. That happened today, and I applaud Vino for making the day more interesting as a result of his comeuppance.

rejobako said:

Vino has been feeling his oats lately:

...

"The only team which could make me leave T-Mobile is Discovery Channel. I’ll certainly be making a choice between those two,” ...

I find this comment to be very interesting. I'd be quite curious to see what Vino can do after a season or so of training under Carmichael and assoc. If the progress of the other Discovery riders is any indication, it may very well be his best shot at stepping out from Ullrich's shadow and winning the TdF.

rejobako said:

Vino has been feeling his oats lately:

"Jan [Ullrich], Andreas [Klöden] and I are all towards the top of the general classification and we have managed to show Armstrong on Saturday that we could attack him from all sides. Until now, we had never had the opportunity to start the Tour together and it’s a considerable advantage. I personally never thought that Armstrong was unbeatable."

“The instructions are very clear: the team will work for whoever turns out to be the strongest of the three of us… We know that, with two or even three of us, we can pool our resources to endanger Armstrong,”

"The only team which could make me leave T-Mobile is Discovery Channel. I’ll certainly be making a choice between those two,” (This comment in particular troubles me, in that it suggests that an offer has been made and that Vino is considering it. Even if true, it seems like a slap in the face to T-Mobile to make this admission in the midst of a Tour battle. If it's not true, then Vino is counting his chickens a bit too early (one of them leads him in the GC now, in fact. 😉 )

Vino has made other comments recently in which he's been a little dismissive of Disco's tactics, along the lines of "I won't ride that way; I only know how to attack, etc." In context, the implication is that Disco's methods are worthy of disdain as opposed to his risk-taking style. As I have said, while I applaud cyclists like Vino who have taken risks and made the Tour more exciting, and while I think the traditional romantic notion of the "go for it all" cyclist is an appealing one, in the end the guy standing at the top of the podium on the last day usually looks pretty good, even if he's cold and calculating in his process to get there.

Thanks for posting this stuff : I genuinely wasn't aware that Vino had made any comments, except to say that he intended to support JU in the TDF.

In reading Vino words : I see nothing wrong with his saying that AK, JU and himself had never ridden together in the Tour and were prepared to attack to LA.
That is fair enough.

I can see where you're coming from re the contract offer from DC : it won't do his team mates at Mobile any favours making those comments.

limerickman said:

In reading Vino words : I see nothing wrong with his saying that AK, JU and himself had never ridden together in the Tour and were prepared to attack to LA.
That is fair enough.

I agree; I just wanted to post more of Vino's interview on that particular day to give it some context. There was a susceptible shift in T-Mobile's rhetoric after Ullrich was hauled in by Armstrong after the initial ITT. It was the smart move, IMO, to create a 3-headed monster for Armstrong to worry about, although after today, it might not matter for much longer.

rejobako said:

I agree; I just wanted to post more of Vino's interview on that particular day to give it some context. There was a susceptible shift in T-Mobile's rhetoric after Ullrich was hauled in by Armstrong after the initial ITT. It was the smart move, IMO, to create a 3-headed monster for Armstrong to worry about, although after today, it might not matter for much longer.

I think the three pronged strategy was (and is) the only viable way to put up a challenge to the DC model.
Granted that today, LA won the battle on this stage.
The only possible way to beat LA is to make him work more than he has too.
if a team can make him do that - then they may well have a chance.

imho the only way to beat him is to get a couple guys that can latch onto the disco train and then try and kill LA once the train runs out of gas. launching early just means that you are all on your own while LA sits in the backseat getting pulled up the mtn until the boosters come off the rocket and he is gone.

but..as someone stated earlier, vino, ullrich, et all didn't lose because they talk too much or are heartless. lance and his team are just really really good. being the second best rider in the world is pretty dang impressive. they have just had the misfortune of running into arguably the best/most prepared TDF rider in history. and the back window of a car. lol.

I always recall the words of Hinault "attack, attack and attack again".

That is what the greats all did and would do : make it hard for your opponent
regardless. That way at least you go down fighting and you make your opponent have to work harder for his victory.

rejobako said:

Your position seems contradictory. You suggest his words should be seen as irrelevant, then point out that they make the event more interesting, which is more to the point, in my opinion. The reason trashtalking is interesting isn't solely in the words spoken, but in the anticipation of making a man eat those words when he falls on his face. That happened today, and I applaud Vino for making the day more interesting as a result of his comeuppance.

The trash talk is irrealevent to performance, but is interesting to follow. I'm merely frustrated that some think that whatever Vino says before the race is reason to call him "a joke." Yeah, he had a bad day, but he's not a joke.

limerickman said:

I think the three pronged strategy was (and is) the only viable way to put up a challenge to the DC model.
Granted that today, LA won the battle on this stage.
The only possible way to beat LA is to make him work more than he has too.
if a team can make him do that - then they may well have a chance.

Interesting that Vino said the first cimb was too early to attack... It would have been interesting to see him put in a few hard attacks on the first climb is disrupt that Discovery led pace. Or attack hard and early on the second climb to upset the pace. Clearly Vino didn't have it today, but Discovery didn't know that. If Vino didn't attack because he wanted to hang on until the finish, then he's riding for himself, not Telekom.

Ullrich did not look good today. I imagine he is suffering from crashes. Ulle often comes back in the second half. We'll see how he looks then. Kloden clearly sacrificed himself to pace JU to the line today.

tcklyde said:

The trash talk is irrealevent to performance, but is interesting to follow. I'm merely frustrated that some think that whatever Vino says before the race is reason to call him "a joke." Yeah, he had a bad day, but he's not a joke.

I agree completely. I don't know what happened to Vino today, but it wasn't in line with his recent performances. He didn't look like a joke racing up Mt. Ventoux in the Libere.