What muscles ache

DaveB said:

I had the masseur working on my hamstrings and calves yesterday which
have been giving me grief for months now. We were trying to work out
what's going on because with the amount of training I'm doing I have
calves and hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently
tight. But the quads never feel sore, even after the longest rides or
runs, on the flat or on the hills. She was thinking it's a
posture/pelvic position problem which I assumed is caused by running,
but now I'm wondering if it's the cycling as well. So my question is,
after you've been for a long ride what leg muscles hurt? And does it
make a difference if you've been climbing?

DaveB

I don't know about climbing, but cycling tends to tighten the hamstrings - you need to include stretching sessions as an important part of your training. I always feel better when I'm stretching regularly.

Ritch

ritcho said:

I don't know about climbing, but cycling tends to tighten the hamstrings - you need to include stretching sessions as an important part of your training. I always feel better when I'm stretching regularly.

Ritch

cant say i ever actually get pain as such after riding. plenty going up hills, but little after.
I feel wobbly/tired walking DOWN stairs afterwards if its been a long/hard ride
(comical scenes years ago when i rode up to Cradle Mountain, hiked up. ate lunch then proceeded to walk down and found legs were having problems 'locking' the knees back. Almost sprinted/fell the whole way down...).

Could you perhaps be iding with feet pointed 'down' rather than keeping he heel down? Shall check you out on next BR youare on...

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

I had the masseur working on my hamstrings and calves yesterday which have
been giving me grief for months now. We were trying to work out what's
going on because with the amount of training I'm doing I have calves and
hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently tight. But the
quads never feel sore, even after the longest rides or runs, on the flat or
on the hills. She was thinking it's a posture/pelvic position problem which
I assumed is caused by running, but now I'm wondering if it's the cycling
as well. So my question is, after you've been for a long ride what leg
muscles hurt? And does it make a difference if you've been climbing?

DaveB

after hard riding i find my quads burn when walking upstairs at work for a
few days after the ride.
the hamstrings do get tight but never really sore, calves rarely get sore as
well.
i only get sore calves when i run, which lately has been rarely🙁

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

I had the masseur working on my hamstrings and calves yesterday which
have been giving me grief for months now. We were trying to work out
what's going on because with the amount of training I'm doing I have
calves and hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently
tight. But the quads never feel sore, even after the longest rides or
runs, on the flat or on the hills. She was thinking it's a
posture/pelvic position problem which I assumed is caused by running,
but now I'm wondering if it's the cycling as well. So my question is,
after you've been for a long ride what leg muscles hurt? And does it
make a difference if you've been climbing?

I just got back from 4hrs riding (so many voter cars grr)
I have a sore back which is due to tight hamstrings and
a sore neck which is due to running into a car.
The back issue is my own fault though.. I've stopped
doing my stretching routine. Bad hippy!
My leg muscles are only sore (not tired/sore, sore/sore) if
I've done something 'outside the square I cycle in' like
overdoing high cadence drills.. I've strained hip-flexors
doing those.. and I still can't crack 200bpm on the Polar!
198bpm is pretty close though.
I might visit a physio or massuer or something for back
and neck and then start stretching again.

hippy

DaveB said:

with the amount of training I'm doing I have
calves and hamstrings that could be described as feeling permanently
tight.

If you exercise then your muscles will tighten, and tighten, and tighten.
Massage is the way to loosen them and stretching will put length back into them. 'feeling permanently tight' - looks like you need a good session of DEEP tissue massage. If you are training most days I recommend a massage once a week... 100%.

If you feel you are using your hamstrings too much and no quads - check your saddle position. Moving the seat back brings in the hamstrings and forward will engage the quads more.

Cycling will always affect the hamstrings - but it is possible to 'switch off' the calves if you concentrate on relaxing them and using your quads as the powerhouse.

hippy said:

I just got back from 4hrs riding (so many voter cars grr)
I have a sore back which is due to tight hamstrings and
a sore neck which is due to running into a car.
The back issue is my own fault though.. I've stopped
doing my stretching routine. Bad hippy!

<snip>

Quoted message said:

hippy

Bad, bad, hippy.

No tofu for you.

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

I just got back from 4hrs riding (so many voter cars grr)
I have a sore back which is due to tight hamstrings and
a sore neck which is due to running into a car.
The back issue is my own fault though.. I've stopped
doing my stretching routine. Bad hippy!

Bad, bad, hippy.
No tofu for you.

So I can have the steak instead?

I went to the physio yesterday. He massaged my kneck
and zapped it with the ultrasound. There was actually no
pain at all which I'm putting down to the 30degC weather.
I also got him to show me some hamstring stretches and
glute stretches. Hopefully once I get back into the routine
I wont have post-race leg pain or post-ride back pain..

hippy

hippy said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Bad, bad, hippy.
No tofu for you.

So I can have the steak instead?

Nope, I ate it already. You stick with that physio and those stretches
and I might give you some steak later.

T

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Bad, bad, hippy.
No tofu for you.

So I can have the steak instead?

Nope, I ate it already. You stick with that physio and those stretches
and I might give you some steak later.

Promise? I stretched last night and this
morning - does that maybe get me a small
piece? ;-)

I'll get another neck rub from the physio on
Friday as well as collecting some printouts
detailing the stretches I asked about. The
tricky part is remembering to do them.

hippy

hippy said:

I also got him to show me some hamstring stretches and
glute stretches. Hopefully once I get back into the routine
I wont have post-race leg pain or post-ride back pain..

hippy

What did you get in the way of hamstring stretches? Is it something you
can explain in a post or do we need to cover a stretching program in the
next BR. My favourite hamstring stretch at the moment is to lie in a
doorway and put one leg at a time up on the doorframe, pushing against
the frame, and then each stretch moving a bit closer to the frame. Now
that the half marathon is over I've got a deep tissue massgae happening
tomorrow which I'm not looking forward to. Hopefully I'll be in good
shape for Sunday.

DaveB

"DaveB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

I also got him to show me some hamstring stretches and
glute stretches. Hopefully once I get back into the routine
I wont have post-race leg pain or post-ride back pain..

What did you get in the way of hamstring stretches? Is it something you
can explain in a post or do we need to cover a stretching program in the
next BR. My favourite hamstring stretch at the moment is to lie in a
doorway and put one leg at a time up on the doorframe, pushing against
the frame, and then each stretch moving a bit closer to the frame. Now
that the half marathon is over I've got a deep tissue massgae happening
tomorrow which I'm not looking forward to. Hopefully I'll be in good
shape for Sunday.

All these people getting massages.. I'm missing out..

Currently I have a kneeling stretch and a sitting one
for hammies. Kneel on one leg, put other one in front,
slightly bent at knee. Lean forward with straight back.
Depending on how bent the knee is, the stretch will
move up and down the straighter leg.
The other one involves sitting down with legs out
front, knees slightly bent, straight back, lean forward
and grab toes.
The physio showed me some different ones, which I
of course forgot totally.. but hopefully the sheets will
explain them better. I think one was the same as my
kneeling version but done standing up with the straight
leg resting on a bench.

hippy

hippy said:

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Currently I have a kneeling stretch and a sitting one
for hammies. Kneel on one leg, put other one in front,
slightly bent at knee. Lean forward with straight back.
Depending on how bent the knee is, the stretch will
move up and down the straighter leg.
The other one involves sitting down with legs out
front, knees slightly bent, straight back, lean forward
and grab toes.
The physio showed me some different ones, which I
of course forgot totally.. but hopefully the sheets will
explain them better. I think one was the same as my
kneeling version but done standing up with the straight
leg resting on a bench.

hippy

Oh, that sounds interesting. I just do the splits.

T

Okay, another good one is lie on your back with one leg flat on the
floor, bring the other knee up and hug it towards your chest or shoulder
but only bring it as far as you can without the hips tilting. Then pull
the knee across to the other shoulder, for a glute stretch. Then repeat
the first stretch but attempt to straighten your leg using your quads,
and flex and point your foot several times; bend your knee a little
closer to your chest, then try to straighten the leg, and wriggle the
foot again. If you're hardcore you can do this second exercise with the
leg going over towards the opposite shoulder again but it really hurts.

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Oh, that sounds interesting. I just do the splits.

Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :-P

Quoted message said:

Okay, another good one is lie on your back with one leg flat on the
floor, bring the other knee up and hug it towards your chest or shoulder
but only bring it as far as you can without the hips tilting. Then pull

This sounds like one of the ones I forgot..

Quoted message said:

the knee across to the other shoulder, for a glute stretch. Then repeat
the first stretch but attempt to straighten your leg using your quads,
and flex and point your foot several times; bend your knee a little
closer to your chest, then try to straighten the leg, and wriggle the
foot again. If you're hardcore you can do this second exercise with the
leg going over towards the opposite shoulder again but it really hurts.

I remember him saying something like "activating the opposite muscle
forces the body to relax the muscle you are trying to stretch". So, by
flexing the quad with the 'leg in the air stretch' you can stretch the
hamstring more effectively..

Isn't it enough that I spend hours on the bike? No. I have to
eat high GI after exercise and low GI everywhere else, drink
enough but not too much, stretch all kinds of things and get
enough sleep.. blah.. blah.. ;-)

hippy
"ride, beer, sleep.."

hippy said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Oh, that sounds interesting. I just do the splits.

Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :-P

Nope, because I'm a circus freak. Honestly. Come see Vulcana Women's
Circus at the Powerhouse, New Farm (BrisVegas) 15-18 December.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

I remember him saying something like "activating the opposite muscle
forces the body to relax the muscle you are trying to stretch". So, by
flexing the quad with the 'leg in the air stretch' you can stretch the
hamstring more effectively..

<snip>

Also, you can use PNF stretching. This stands for proprioceptive
neuromuscular facilitation, which is a term no one understands. But it
means that you resist the stretch and then relax into it further, for
example if you were doing a hamstring stretch pulling at your leg with
your hand, you would push back with your leg for a few seconds, and then
relax.

T

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :-P

Nope, because I'm a circus freak. Honestly. Come see Vulcana Women's
Circus at the Powerhouse, New Farm (BrisVegas) 15-18 December.

Are you going to tour Oz? Brissie is too far.. :-(

Are you the one in the air or part of the landing mat? :-)
http://www.brisbanepowerhouse.org/content/?id=49

Quoted message said:

Also, you can use PNF stretching. This stands for proprioceptive
neuromuscular facilitation, which is a term no one understands.

I have _no_ idea why... looks like a couple of words were
cut and pasted together when someone wrote their thesis. 😉

Wait.. it does exist..
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=proprioceptive
Uh.. huh.. <backs away slowly>

Quoted message said:

But it
means that you resist the stretch and then relax into it further, for
example if you were doing a hamstring stretch pulling at your leg with
your hand, you would push back with your leg for a few seconds, and then
relax.

Okay so it's a few big words for "resist then relax". I think I get it.
What's the difference between using this method and the vanilla
flavoured "stretch and hold" method?

hippy

hippy said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

hippy said:

Smarty pants, just coz you're a grrl! :-P

Nope, because I'm a circus freak. Honestly. Come see Vulcana Women's
Circus at the Powerhouse, New Farm (BrisVegas) 15-18 December.

Are you going to tour Oz? Brissie is too far.. :-(

Not a chance.

Quoted message said:

Are you the one in the air or part of the landing mat? :-)
http://www.brisbanepowerhouse.org/content/?id=49

Hmmm, wasn't there that day. Looks like they got a pro to do the dive.
Damn shame they always use amateurs when I'm the mat.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Okay so it's a few big words for "resist then relax". I think I get it.
What's the difference between using this method and the vanilla
flavoured "stretch and hold" method?

Basic concept is something like this I think:

stretch to point A at tension TA, increase the tension to TB by pushing
so the muscle is happy with that level of tension, then relax back to
TA(lower tension) and stretch further to point B where the relaxed
tension is the same as TB (i.e. when you where pushing at point A)

did that make ANY sense?

T

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Are you going to tour Oz? Brissie is too far.. :-(

Not a chance.

Flexible Spoilsport! :-)

Quoted message said:

Basic concept is something like this I think:
stretch to point A at tension TA, increase the tension to TB by pushing
so the muscle is happy with that level of tension, then relax back to
TA(lower tension) and stretch further to point B where the relaxed
tension is the same as TB (i.e. when you where pushing at point A)

did that make ANY sense?

It did, but I think it's too much trouble for someone who
forgets to do vanilla stretches anyway. Is there much benefit
though, in investing the extra time in this style stretching?
I'm finding it hard enough doing the kays, let alone work, live
and stretch - which I did this morning - got any steak?

hippy

hippy said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Basic concept is something like this I think:
stretch to point A at tension TA, increase the tension to TB by pushing
so the muscle is happy with that level of tension, then relax back to
TA(lower tension) and stretch further to point B where the relaxed
tension is the same as TB (i.e. when you where pushing at point A)

did that make ANY sense?

It did, but I think it's too much trouble for someone who
forgets to do vanilla stretches anyway. Is there much benefit
though, in investing the extra time in this style stretching?
I'm finding it hard enough doing the kays, let alone work, live
and stretch - which I did this morning - got any steak?

Hey, good on you! No steak though.

PNF stretching is awesome, it's actually quicker than holding a stretch
because you get further faster - you only need to "push" for a few
seconds to notice the difference.

Personally, I do dynamic stretches (gently, not ballistically) when I
get up in the morning, helps massively with lubricating joints and
getting muscles to stretch rather than just ligaments.

T

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Hey, good on you! No steak though.

I give up! I'm going vego again.. :-P

Quoted message said:

PNF stretching is awesome, it's actually quicker than holding a stretch
because you get further faster - you only need to "push" for a few
seconds to notice the difference.

I'll see what the physio gives me today and maybe
adapt some to PNF. "1 hippopotamus 2 hippopotamus ... ...
30 hippopotamus ahhh"

Quoted message said:

Personally, I do dynamic stretches (gently, not ballistically) when I
get up in the morning, helps massively with lubricating joints and
getting muscles to stretch rather than just ligaments.

I always had trouble with overdoing stretches "cold" before
a run (when I used to attempt to run) so I stopped and
found that doing them afterwards with warmed muscles
was less risky. Could I achieve the same thing by doing
'normal' stretches? I'd just make sure I didn't push it too
far..

hippy