What makes chutney chutney?

Melba's Jammin said:

My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in
fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same.

One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a
little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category
for salsa.

In the early stages of the chutney cooking, I looked at it and thought,
"Heh, I wonder if I could get away with calling this salsa." I've got a
jar of TJ Spicy, Smoky, Peach Salsa, Personally, I think this
newfangled idea of calling a fruit relish a salsa is dippy, but that's
just me. Anyway, in looking at the ingredient list for the Peach Salsa,
I see that it contains peaches, tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, sugar,
chipotles, vinegar, lemon juice, salt & spices. The tablespoon that
*somebody* (who shall remain nameless but his first name starts with
Rob) left in the jar rather than finishing is liquid and devoid of much
texture at this point.

Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong
consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what
makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it
that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the
consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe
below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week)
that's liquid and chunkless.

Color me Inquisitive.

* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Cilantro Chutney

Recipe By : Da Afghan Restaurant Cookbook, Afghani Cooking, p. 91
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Condiments

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 bunch cilantro
1 clove garlic
1/2 cup cider vinegar
2 jalapeño peppers
2 walnuts
1 teaspoon salt

Wash cilantro, peel garlic and remove seeds from peppers.

Put all ingredients into a blender and thoroughly blend. Keep
refrigerated.

Serve with naan bread or kebobs.

My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.

Mike

On Thu 11 Aug 2005 07:32:55a, Melba's Jammin' wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong
consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what
makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it
that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the
consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe
below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week)
that's liquid and chunkless.

Color me Inquisitive.

Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, and fruit. In
spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor note is "pungent". There is no
single ingredient that qualifies it as chutney.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

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On Thu 11 Aug 2005 07:43:21a, wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.

Mike

That might certainly come to mind first. However, there are also cooked
salsas. In western cultures, most chutneys are cooked. However, in India
many chutneys are prepared fresh and eaten raw. The flavor construction for
a chutney is usually sweet, sour, spicy, pungent, and contains fruit.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

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Mi e' parso che Wayne Boatwright abbia scritto:

Quoted message said:

Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices,
and fruit. In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor
note is "pungent". There is no single ingredient that
qualifies it as chutney.

This chutney remembers me of italian "mostarda", which is not
mustard but contains mustard seeds in the liquid part, and is
made with whole small fruits. It's typical of Piedmont and
generally available in the northern part of Italy.
Perfect with boiled meat, some kind of mostarda also pair well
with cheeses, as the pear-based "mostarda di pere", or "pere
mostardate".
Sweet and pungent are the words that better describe it.
--
Vilco
Think Pink , Drink Rose'

On Thu 11 Aug 2005 08:06:57a, Vilco wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Mi e' parso che Wayne Boatwright abbia scritto:

Quoted message said:

Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, and fruit.
In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor note is "pungent".
There is no single ingredient that qualifies it as chutney.

This chutney remembers me of italian "mostarda", which is not
mustard but contains mustard seeds in the liquid part, and is
made with whole small fruits. It's typical of Piedmont and
generally available in the northern part of Italy.
Perfect with boiled meat, some kind of mostarda also pair well
with cheeses, as the pear-based "mostarda di pere", or "pere
mostardate".
Sweet and pungent are the words that better describe it.

I would consider mostarda to be a type of chutney.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

(snipped)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong
consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what
makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it
that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the
consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe
below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week)
that's liquid and chunkless.

Color me Inquisitive.

(snipped)

Quoted message said:

My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.

Mike

I'd thought about that, too, Mike. I'm curious to see what others say,
too.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a
couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5)

In article <[email hidden]>, Wayne Boatwright

Quoted message said:

On Thu 11 Aug 2005 07:32:55a, Melba's Jammin' wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong
consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what
makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it
that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the
consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe
below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week)
that's liquid and chunkless.

Color me Inquisitive.

Most all chutneys have in common, sugar, vinegar, spices, and fruit.
In spite of their usual sweetness, the flavor note is "pungent".
There is no single ingredient that qualifies it as chutney.

Right. I think you're on to something with the pungent aspect. I'm
about to jar and process it now (water's boiling). Thanks, Wayne.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a
couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5)

Wayne Boatwright said:

That might certainly come to mind first. However, there are also cooked
salsas.

Si.

Quoted message said:

many chutneys are prepared fresh and eaten raw.

Quite right.

Quoted message said:

The flavor construction for
a chutney is usually sweet, sour, spicy, pungent, and contains fruit.

But, not always. One of my fave chutneys, mint chutney, contains no
fruit and the sweet is provided by the onion.

½ cup Mint Leaves
¼th cup Coriander Leaves (cilantro)
1 Green chili, chopped (jalapena or serrano)
1 ½ tablespoons Onion, chopped
3 tablespoons Lemon Juice
4-5 teaspoons Water
¾th teaspoon Salt

Puree in blender. Will keep for several days in fridge.

nb

On Thu 11 Aug 2005 10:18:53a, notbob wrote in rec.food.cooking:

Quoted message said:

Wayne Boatwright said:

That might certainly come to mind first. However, there are also cooked
salsas.

Si.

Quoted message said:

many chutneys are prepared fresh and eaten raw.

Quite right.

Quoted message said:

The flavor construction for
a chutney is usually sweet, sour, spicy, pungent, and contains fruit.

But, not always. One of my fave chutneys, mint chutney, contains no
fruit and the sweet is provided by the onion.

½ cup Mint Leaves
¼th cup Coriander Leaves (cilantro)
1 Green chili, chopped (jalapena or serrano)
1 ½ tablespoons Onion, chopped
3 tablespoons Lemon Juice
4-5 teaspoons Water
¾th teaspoon Salt

Puree in blender. Will keep for several days in fridge.

nb

That sounds delicious! I must try it when I can get hold of some fresh
mint.

--
Wayne Boatwright *¿*
____________________________________________

Give me a smart idiot over a stupid genius any day.
Sam Goldwyn, 1882-1974

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Quoted message said:

Melba's Jammin said:

My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in
fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same.

One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a
little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category
for salsa.

In the early stages of the chutney cooking, I looked at it and thought,
"Heh, I wonder if I could get away with calling this salsa." I've got a
jar of TJ Spicy, Smoky, Peach Salsa, Personally, I think this
newfangled idea of calling a fruit relish a salsa is dippy, but that's
just me. Anyway, in looking at the ingredient list for the Peach Salsa,
I see that it contains peaches, tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, sugar,
chipotles, vinegar, lemon juice, salt & spices. The tablespoon that
*somebody* (who shall remain nameless but his first name starts with
Rob) left in the jar rather than finishing is liquid and devoid of much
texture at this point.

Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong
consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what
makes my fruit relish a chutney? Because someone decided to call it
that? Because it has ginger? Mustard seed? It can't be the
consistency because I've had an Afghani chutney (Really good recipe
below - reminded me of that schoog stuff I posted about last week)
that's liquid and chunkless.

Color me Inquisitive.

* Exported from MasterCook Mac *

Cilantro Chutney

Recipe By : Da Afghan Restaurant Cookbook, Afghani Cooking, p. 91
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Condiments

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
1 bunch cilantro
1 clove garlic
1/2 cup cider vinegar
2 jalapeño peppers
2 walnuts
1 teaspoon salt

Wash cilantro, peel garlic and remove seeds from peppers.

Put all ingredients into a blender and thoroughly blend. Keep
refrigerated.

Serve with naan bread or kebobs.

My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.

Mike

I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a
chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish. I have a
reference in one of my canning books that explains it but don't have
time to look for it right now. I'll find it and post it for you. IIRC
salsas can be cooked or uncooked and usually fruit based. Remember the
tomato is a fruit not a vegetable so tomato salsa qualifies. I can
remember the distinction for chutneys. I think relishes are always
pickled. I'll see what I can find for you. BTW I make chili sauce which
a good amount of vinegar in it and is almost as chunky as the salsa I
make. Both are canned. So why is the chili sauce called a sauce
instead of a salsa? Last year I made bruchetta in a jar. It was very
much the consistancy of chunky salsa. I don't too hung up on the names
anymore but then I don't enter state fairs either.

Melba's Jammin said:

My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in
fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same.

One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a
little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category
for salsa.

In the early stages of the chutney cooking, I looked at it and thought,
"Heh, I wonder if I could get away with calling this salsa." I've got a
jar of TJ Spicy, Smoky, Peach Salsa, Personally, I think this
newfangled idea of calling a fruit relish a salsa is dippy, but that's
just me. Anyway, in looking at the ingredient list for the Peach Salsa,
I see that it contains peaches, tomato puree, tomatoes, onions, sugar,
chipotles, vinegar, lemon juice, salt & spices. The tablespoon that
*somebody* (who shall remain nameless but his first name starts with
Rob) left in the jar rather than finishing is liquid and devoid of much
texture at this point.

Now that the chutney has cooked some more, I'm thinking it's the wrong
consistency for salsa so that takes care of that idea. But still, what
makes my fruit relish a chutney?

Chutney: a condiment that is made of acidic fruits with added raisins,
dates, and onions and seasoned with spices. The key ingredients are
the fruit and the onions.

"~patches~" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a
chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish.

In Mexico (which ought to count for SOMETHING), I believe that
"salsa" simply means "sauce" in the broadest possible sense of the
word. (No, I don't want to restart the Great Alfredo Battle of
2005...) So damned near anything you could pour out of a jar
could be (and probably has been, by someone) labelled a "salsa."
I think most people, though, would have in mind something that
had reasonably small-sized chunks of fruits and/or veggies in
it. I would not be at all surprised to find that what we'd call
"pickle relish," just for example, winds up as a "salsa" of some
sort on store shelves all across Mexico.

Merriam-Webster says that "chutney" is derived from a Hindi
term, and it appears that vinegar and possibly sugar are the
defining ingredients. But I really suspect that at the root of all
this, we're just seeing the results of the fact that pretty much all
human cultures at some point have chopped up fruits and veggies
and used the result (with or without additional liquids, juices,
whatever) as a condiment - so we've got at least as many
words as there are languages for what's broadly the same thing.
Sorta like "noodles" - is there any place on the planet where the
locals haven't at some point made long stringlike things out of
some sort of flour?

Language ain't an exact science, folks...it's a lot messier, and
about as stable a situation as trying to nail Jell-O to the wall...

Bob M.

In article <[email hidden]>, ~patches~

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a
little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category
for salsa.

(snippage)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.

Mike

I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a
chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish.

My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of relish.
Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a
couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5)

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in
fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a
couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5)

Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious:

chutney
[CHUHT-nee]
From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains fruit, vinegar,
sugar and spices. It can range in texture from chunky to smooth and in degrees
of spiciness from mild to hot. Chutney is a delicious accompaniment to curried
dishes. The sweeter chutneys also make interesting bread spreads and are
delicious served with cheese.
© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD LOVER'S
COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

salsa
[SAHL-sah]
The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify cooked or fresh mixtures. Salsa
cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa verde is "green salsa," which is typically
based on TOMATILLOS, green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad selection of salsas -
fresh, canned or in jars - is available in supermarkets today. They can range in
spiciness from mild to mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are located in a market's
refrigerated section. At home, they should be tightly covered and refrigerated
for up to 5 days. Unopened cooked salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6
months; once opened, refrigerate them for up to 1 month.
© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD LOVER'S
COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few salsa's can
be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar since a tomato is a
fruit.

Dimitri

Melba's Jammin said:

In article <[email hidden]>, ~patches~

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Melba's Jammin' wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a
>little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a category
>for salsa.

(snippage)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
(or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.

Mike

I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading what a
chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish.

My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of relish.
Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves.

Salsa doesn't have vinegar?

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

"Dimitri" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Melba's Jammin'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My State Fair is in a coupla weeks and I'm up to my, uh, elbows in
fruit, pectin, sugar, and vinegar preparing for same.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a
couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5)

Interesting question here are the definitions from Epicurious:

chutney
[CHUHT-nee]
From the East Indian word chatni , this spicy condiment contains fruit,
vinegar, sugar and spices. It can range in texture from chunky to smooth
and in degrees of spiciness from mild to hot. Chutney is a delicious
accompaniment to curried dishes. The sweeter chutneys also make
interesting bread spreads and are delicious served with cheese.
© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

salsa
[SAHL-sah]
The Mexican word for "sauce," which can signify cooked or fresh mixtures.
Salsa cruda is "uncooked salsa"; salsa verde is "green salsa," which is
typically based on TOMATILLOS, green CHILES and CILANTRO. A broad
selection of salsas - fresh, canned or in jars - is available in
supermarkets today. They can range in spiciness from mild to
mouth-searing. Fresh salsas are located in a market's refrigerated
section. At home, they should be tightly covered and refrigerated for up
to 5 days. Unopened cooked salsas can be stored at room temperature for 6
months; once opened, refrigerate them for up to 1 month.
© Copyright Barron's Educational Services, Inc. 1995 based on THE FOOD
LOVER'S COMPANION, 2nd edition, by Sharon Tyler Herbst.

Based upon the above I would say any chutney and be a salsa but few
salsa's can be chutneys. The determining factor would be the vinegar
since a tomato is a fruit.

Dimitri

According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) would not
be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I misunderstanding
that you can still have a chutney without a fruit and if so, then it would
only contain vinegar, sugar and spices.
Dee Dee

Del Cecchi said:

Melba's Jammin said:

In article <[email hidden]>, ~patches~

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] wrote:

> Melba's Jammin' wrote:

Quoted message said:

>> One of the categories I'm entering is fruit chutney (Includes fruit, a
>> little heat, ginger, mustard seeds, vinegar). They also have a
>> category
>> for salsa.

(snippage)

Quoted message said:

> My first thought to the main question would be that chutney is cooked
> (or at least pickled in some way and salsa is raw.
>
> Mike
>

I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading
what a chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a relish.

My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of
relish. Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves.

Salsa doesn't have vinegar?

My recipe does along with lime & lemon juices.

In article <[email hidden]>, Del Cecchi

Quoted message said:

Melba's Jammin said:

In article <[email hidden]>, ~patches~
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I've always been curious about the distinction. I recall reading
what a chutney is in comparison to a salsa in comparison to a
relish.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

My State Fair judges have both chutney and salsa as a *type* of
relish.

Kinda like jams and jellies being a *type* of preserves.

Quoted message said:

Salsa doesn't have vinegar?

The ones tested for safe canning do.
--
-Barb, <http://www.jamlady.eboard.com> 8/3/05 New York-Vermont tab (a
couple pictures added to the 7/29 note on 8/5)

"Dee Randall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

<Snip>

Quoted message said:

According to the Epicurious definition, a cilantro chutney (fresh) would not
be classified as a chutney , as it has no fruit; or am I misunderstanding that
you can still have a chutney without a fruit and if so, then it would only
contain vinegar, sugar and spices.
Dee Dee

I think the walnuts and peppers would classify as fruits.

If a tomato is a fruit is a pepper?

Dimitri