What is wrong with broadcast journalism

Triffid said:

Sorry about the cross-posting as well, but that's just usenet.

No you're not, and no it isn't.

r4 rmoved.

--
spam @ anaxhyphenandronfullstopcom ne cede malis
Remove spam, add jaf. Desormais. Silence is 1.618

Triffid said:

The scene: Tour de France, 23/07/2004.

Turns out that Simeoni is a whistleblower, who testified in some court that
Armstrong is on drugs. Of course we all know ths, but Armstrong called
Simeoni 'a liar' in Le Monde. Simeoni in turn is suing Armstrong for
defamation and loss of earnings etc. Basically, Armstrong has then used his
power as leader to prevent Simeoni doing anything in the TDF. Not nice.

Small correction, Simeoni didn't testify that Armstrong is on drugs,
but that Michele Ferrari, with whom Armstrong has ties, had given
Simeoni EPO.

Steve.

"Triffid" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

The scene: Tour de France, 23/07/2004.

The action: A bunch of small-time riders heads for the hills in the hope

of

Quoted message said:

their 15 minutes of fame. One Filippo Simeoni, buried at the bottom of

the

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classification goes to join them. Lance Armstrong[The Man] follows

Simeoni.

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A note on etiquette here: the leader doesn't get in on small-time breaks
because many riders need these little titbits. Lance and Fillippo ride up
to the group, which looks at Lance in horror. Their efforts will be for
nothing with him there. They tell him to go away. Lance tells them he'll
bugger off if Simeoni drops back as well. So what's going on?

Turns out that Simeoni is a whistleblower, who testified in some court

that

Quoted message said:

Armstrong is on drugs
Of course we all know this,

Looking to get sued as well? And whats with the "we"? I dont know it. The
most *you* can do is suspect it, unless you claim to have seen him taking
them?

Quoted message said:

but Armstrong called
Simeoni 'a liar' in Le Monde. Simeoni in turn is suing Armstrong for
defamation and loss of earnings etc. Basically, Armstrong has then used

his

Quoted message said:

power as leader to prevent Simeoni doing anything in the TDF. Not nice.

I agree, accusing someone of taking drugs certainly isnt nice if you have no
proof.
And if you had been falsely accused, maybe you'd be [censored] with your
accuser?

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Anyhow, this affair crops up in discussion on R5L this afternoon. They
comment on the incident, alluding to drugs references, but name no names

and

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say they can't comment because the court action is ongoing. Basically no
more than teasing. They know what's going on, but they're not gonna say
becasuse of an action in an Italian court.

It took me nearly an hour of googling to join all the dots, which they

could

Quoted message said:

easily have explained as no risk to themselves at all. Is this the legacy
of Hutton I wonder?

Dunno, it is pretty lily-livered I agree.

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You might like two rather contrasting descriptions of events:
http://tinyurl.com/5gl8u (The Guardian)
http://tinyurl.com/6pa7w (Cycling News)

Just wanted to get this off my chest, as I find the blandness of broadcast
journalism really sad. Mind you, at least R5L mentioned some of it, which
is a bloody sight more than either Eurosport or ITV, who are obviously
unkeen to mention that a sport into which they plough millions

(thousands?)

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is riddled with drugs from top to bottom.

Whats your evidence for that? Note, this needs evidence that large numbers
of amateurs are taking drugs, you did say 'bottom". I also very much doubt
that Eurosport "plough" anywhere near millions into the sport.I believe you
have already been warned several billion times not to exaggerate.

--
Tumbleweed

email replies not necessary but to contact use;

tumbleweednews at hotmail dot com.

In uk.rec.cycling Tumbleweed <[email hidden]> wrote:

:> easily have explained as no risk to themselves at all. Is this the legacy
:> of Hutton I wonder?

: Dunno, it is pretty lily-livered I agree.

It's nothing to do with Hutton and everything to do with the UK's libel
laws.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune http://www.clune.org
"Technolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

X-No-Archive: yes
In message <[email hidden]>, Triffid
<[email hidden]> writes of the Tour de Force.

Quoted message said:

Eurosport or ITV, who are obviously unkeen to mention that a sport
into which they plough millions (thousands?) is riddled with drugs from
top to bottom.

It's probable that there's a possibility that you're right, but does it
matter? After all, it's not as if these gentlemen (are wimmin allowed to
take part in the tour de force?) are using motorbikes to gad around that
frightful Frogland. Seems to me that it would be a good idea to let drug
usage have its head and so give the pharmaceutical industry a chance to
come up with something real nifty.

--
James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk

Triffid said:

Turns out that Simeoni is a whistleblower, who testified in some court
that
Armstrong is on drugs

No he didn't - he gave evidence that Ferrari gave him (Simeoni) EPO

Quoted message said:

Of course we all know ths

You clearly didn't

in message <[email hidden]>, Triffid

(') said:

Turns out that Simeoni is a whistleblower, who testified in some court
that
Armstrong is on drugs.

Simeoni, as I understand it, testified that _he_ was on drugs and had
had them prescribed for him by a doctor (Michele Ferrari) who was also
involved in Armstrong's training.

Quoted message said:

Armstrong called Simeoni 'a liar' in Le Monde. Simeoni in turn is
suing Armstrong for defamation and loss of earnings etc. Basically,
Armstrong has then used his power as leader to prevent Simeoni doing
anything in the TDF.
Not nice.

Does anyone know whether Armstrong's claim is that Simeoni never took
the drugs he testified on oath that he had taken, or that Ferrari did
not supply them? In either case, how could he possibly know?

Either way, Armstrong's apparent attitude that whistleblowers should be
penalised is interesting.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and we had run out of gas for the welding torch.

Steve pibbled:

Quoted message said:

Triffid said:

Turns out that Simeoni is a whistleblower, who testified in some court
that
Armstrong is on drugs

No he didn't - he gave evidence that Ferrari gave him (Simeoni) EPO

Quoted message said:

Of course we all know ths

You clearly didn't

Obviously not. The reason why is the point of the post. Ferrari was(is?)
in demand, more than likely as the pusher of choice. Any connection with
him is so suspicious as to infer guilt in any civil court. So why can't it
be mentioned on the media?

--
Despite appearances, it is still legal to put sugar on cornflakes.

Mr. James Follet pibbled:

Quoted message said:

Triffid <[email hidden]> writes of the Tour de Force.

Quoted message said:

Eurosport or ITV, who are obviously unkeen to mention that a sport
into which they plough millions (thousands?) is riddled with drugs from
top to bottom.

It's probable that there's a possibility that you're right, but does it
matter? After all, it's not as if these gentlemen (are wimmin allowed to
take part in the tour de force?) are using motorbikes to gad around that
frightful Frogland. Seems to me that it would be a good idea to let drug
usage have its head and so give the pharmaceutical industry a chance to
come up with something real nifty.

As it happens I sort of agree with you, you sad old ham. First time ever!

--
Despite appearances, it is still legal to put sugar on cornflakes.

Quoted message said:

him is so suspicious as to infer guilt in any civil court. So why can't

it

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be mentioned on the media?

Broadcasters work under a whole raft or restrictions imposed by both
government and their employers. Some restrictions are official, some
unofficial, some even unspoken.... Sports producers may, for instance, be
restricted to reporting on just that; Sports! And, under normal
circumstances, nothing else!

It would, in general, be deemed 'unsafe' to make any comment or report that
may prejudice in any way the outcome of either a civil or criminal court
case since this could expose both the broadcasters and any affiliate to
either criminal or civil action. No reporter or news producer takes that
step lightly or without appropriate advice. Obtaining that advice requires
resources in terms of staff time at the location and the employment of legal
services; that eats into the programme budget. The more far-ranging that
advice the greater the drain.

Given that the ITV crew are on foreign soil everyone, crew, reporters and
directors will be guarded. They will be aware that they should not make any
comment that _might_ prejudice their facility to broadcast from that
location, either now or in the future. They are there to report on the
events taking place around them, not to comment or external matters. Were
they to comment the ITV editorial team would need to resource the legal
backup. In the context of a live programme this is particularly dangerous.
We all have opinions on the matters and the reporters\commentators involved
will be no exception. It's just too risky to have then engage in
conversation about it and I have no doubt that pre-transmission the party
line will be 'DO NOT COMMENT'...Leave the investigative journalism to Roger
Cook and just talk about the bicycles going round and round....

Bear in mind that an incident that seriously inconveniences the station
could actually jeopardise future coverage of the event! They'll have
bought-in the footage, it looks to me as though they've not put much in the
way of technical resources behind the location team..... This isn't big
budget stuff! If the powers that be were faced with a budget over-run as a
result of some careless comment they'll just pull the plug on it altogether!

Triffid said:

Obviously not. The reason why is the point of the post.

Are, so that was the reason for the post, I think I understand now.

Quoted message said:

Ferrari was(is?) in demand, more than likely as the pusher of choice. Any
connection with
him is so suspicious as to infer guilt in any civil court.

But not in the criminal courts - and doping is a criminal offence. Neither
am I convinced that "association" is proof of any wrongdoing in the civil
courts otherwise half the Conservative party would have been guilty of
something or other - Archer etc. ... No, on second thoughts I think you're
right, sorry.

Quoted message said:

So why can't it be mentioned on the media?

It can - and was; hence your ability to "join up the dots".

In article <[email hidden]>, JF
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

X-No-Archive: yes
In message <[email hidden]>, Triffid
<[email hidden]> writes of the Tour de Force.

Quoted message said:

Eurosport or ITV, who are obviously unkeen to mention that a sport
into which they plough millions (thousands?) is riddled with drugs from
top to bottom.

It's probable that there's a possibility that you're right, but does it
matter? After all, it's not as if these gentlemen (are wimmin allowed to
take part in the tour de force?) are using motorbikes to gad around that
frightful Frogland. Seems to me that it would be a good idea to let drug
usage have its head and so give the pharmaceutical industry a chance to
come up with something real nifty.

Hasn't this been discussed previously? They only started
banning drugs when stoned hopped-up Tour cyclists started
dropping dead - early in the last century, I think. Britishers, IIRC.

Robert Carnegie at home, [email hidden] at large
--
I am fully aware I may regret this in the morning.

"Robert Carnegie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hasn't this been discussed previously? They only started
banning drugs when stoned hopped-up Tour cyclists started
dropping dead - early in the last century, I think. Britishers, IIRC.

Robert Carnegie at home, [email hidden] at large
--
I am fully aware I may regret this in the morning.

Mmm, amphetamines wasn't it?

Quite frankly, I'm surprised thry could cycle in a straight line at all...

Nelgonde [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Mmm, amphetamines wasn't it?

And alchohol. And an astounding ability to ignore the warning signs
(I've fallen off three times already. I can't stand up. Should make it
to the top no sweat!)

Jon

Jon Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Nelgonde [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Mmm, amphetamines wasn't it?

And alchohol. And an astounding ability to ignore the warning signs
(I've fallen off three times already. I can't stand up. Should make it
to the top no sweat!)

Impairment of judgement is a well documented side effect of that
combination.

--
Dave...

When I was kidnapped, my parents snapped into action. They rented out
my room. — Woody Allen

In article <[email hidden]>, Jon
Senior <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOTco_DOT_uk@?.?> writes

Quoted message said:

Nelgonde [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

Mmm, amphetamines wasn't it?

And alchohol. And an astounding ability to ignore the warning signs
(I've fallen off three times already. I can't stand up. Should make it
to the top no sweat!)

Outside of present company, I thought the drug of choice in the
very early days of the Tour de France was heroin, and a British
rider - or a rider with a British manager - had dropped dead of it,
not necessarily on the Tour itself; there was a BBC radio
programme a while back.

Upon trying to look it up, though, I only find some French riders
admitting to cocaine in 1925 - and various incidents since, of
course, all the way up to now-ish. But can anyone identify the
other case that I'm trying to remember?

Robert Carnegie at home, [email hidden] at large
--
I am fully aware I may regret this in the morning.

Robert Carnegie said:

Outside of present company, I thought the drug of choice in the
very early days of the Tour de France was heroin, and a British
rider - or a rider with a British manager - had dropped dead of it,
not necessarily on the Tour itself; there was a BBC radio
programme a while back.

Upon trying to look it up, though, I only find some French riders
admitting to cocaine in 1925 - and various incidents since, of
course, all the way up to now-ish. But can anyone identify the
other case that I'm trying to remember?

It was Tommy Simpson, who collapsed and died on the Tour. A
post-mortem found evidence of amphetamines.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil Wilson [email hidden] opined the following...

Quoted message said:

It was Tommy Simpson, who collapsed and died on the Tour. A
post-mortem found evidence of amphetamines.

Hence the above comments about inability to recognise one's limits. Tom
"Put Me Back On My Bike" Simpson set the standard for Dumb Acts In
Sport! Ah well. He made history if nothing else.

Jon