what is considered over training

At the bottom of the 76th page of "The Thread" Frenchyge offers a nifty TSS calculator you'll find your daily limit around 150 TSS points for consecutive day training which I avoid but cycling cyborgs seem to enjoy consecutive day training.:eek: cyclingforums.comt 314849 15 76.htmlOpen ↗

izatt82 said:

just wondering how much riding to rest i should get?
how long should it be between each ride?

and any more info that could help get me started. i have a pretty open schedual for the most part i go to college so im tring to work the best training program in i can.

thanks guys

izatt82 said:

just wondering how much riding to rest i should get?
how long should it be between each ride?..

There's no "one size fits all" answer for your questions. It depends on the intensity and duration of your training sessions, the other stresses in your life including things like how well you eat and how much sleep you get (I didn't get nearly enough in college, but I had fun and raced bikes anyway) and it depends on your body and how well it bounces back after various workouts.

If you can't afford a coach or can't find a competent cycling coach associated with your school then you should at least read some of the good training books out there. Try to find a copy of Greg Lemond's book, it's a bit dated in some ways, but his overall training advice is really good. A couple things he stresses like intensity before duration as part of your weekly training cycle and not taking too much time off during the off season are really good pieces of advice.

Most of the published race training books from Eddie B to Burke, Carmichael, Phinney and Carpenter, Friel, Hunter Allen and Rene and Kendra Wenzel all suggest a weekly program with 2 or at most three rest days depending on where you are in the various cycles, what events you're peaking for or recovering from and how well you're adapting overall. Some advocate active rest days (works if you're disciplined enough to really go easy on those days and not get caught up chasing faster riders or pushing harder than you should. If you lack that discipline and just can't let the geek in the running shorts and sneakers blow by you then you're better off staying away from the bike on those days) some prefer complete rest.

A good program for a generalist road racer will have a lot of aerobic work up to and including your one hour time trial pace. Have some high end aerobic work stressing your ability to work at VO2 max pace. Have some anaerobic tolerance work which helps your ability to hang on during or initiate short hard attacks, bridge gaps and handle short fast climbs and include some top end sprint work. The exact balance should depend on your personal strengths and weaknesses and take into account your other obligations including classes and work. You should build your schedule with an eye to your competitive season, your key events, and it should allow for sufficient recovery but most sucessful roadies ride at least four and often five days a week. Your schedule also needs to change as your fitness improves and may need to change depending on how well you do or don't adapt to your training load.

In addition to your weekly training/rest balance most folks take a few extra days every once in a while to come up for air and get a rest from their cumulative training load. Some folks plan this in to their yearly and monthly schedules and some just listen to their bodies or rest when forced to by work or other commitments. On the average I take three or four consecutive rest days about every six to eight weeks usually dictated by work travel or family obligations. If I know one of these breathers is coming I try to work hard up to the rest break knowing I'll have a bit of extra recovery time. Sometimes I'm just gassed after a hard couple of weeks and realize during warmup that my scheduled workout just isn't gonna happen. In that case I'll take the extra rest or do a lower intensity workout and then try to get back on my plan the next day or as soon as possible. On the flip side I don't try to make up missed workouts unless I'm coming up on some forced rest like business travel. If I swap a planned rest day for a hard workout it really messes up the following week.

Anyway, that's probably not the cut and dried answer you were hoping for, but basically I believe you should err on the side of excess rest but should plan for a good workout week that uses your time well. I undertrained for years which led to overtraining on occasion as I tried to "cram" for fitness which isn't really possible. Read Hunter and Coggan's book on power training even if you don't own a PM, pay particular attention to the discussions related to energy systems and SST/L4 work and the importance of FTP. Read the It's Killing Me thread on these forums and anything else you can get your hands on. Overtraining is a real concern if you're pushing hard and not resting, but I know plenty of folks (myself included) that also chronically undertrained which doesn't win you any races either.

Good luck,
Dave

Sorry about that I didn't know it was you I can't help passing cyclists with bib shorts and Speedplay pedals.🙂

daveryanwyoming said:

If you lack that discipline and just can't let the geek in the running shorts and sneakers blow by you then you're better off staying away from the bike on those days

thats tss program didnt work for me.

Over training= Riding at least one more mile than I do.

okay hahahahaha

well so far since im just starting again im adding a mile a day or so and bring up the speed and intenseity.

since there's no hills here i try to do at least one sprint in the middle of my ride until i cant push any more then get back to a decent pace. my rides are short now started at 8 miles did about 10 or 11 today but the wind was killer. and im still training the butt thats really what is slowing me down but it's getting better. i dont have a comp onthe bike yet but what range should i be shooting for as far as a 10 mile ride? as far as total time or avg. speed?

im just curious to see how much harder i have to push. right now i just try i get to a good pace on the way out to the half way mark and then on the way back i push pretty hard and try not to let up the whole time back.

thanks guys im not really worried about over training at this point i feel better every day i go out but i'll try to mix it up evry once and a while. it worked for me in every other sport or comp. so something like four days riding like the one above one or two days off then two intervals one day apart and then two days off and back to the distance again. what do you guys think?

im up for any sugestions because this is alittle differant than any other thing i have trained for except running i guess but still differant.

thanks guys
chris

I think you have to change the extension to .xls instead of .doc after downloading it. It's an Excel spread sheet.

izatt82 said:

thats tss program didnt work for me.

I thought the simple signs of over-training are as follows,

- You are not improving nor holding your performance but going backwards.
- Your resting HR is elevated.

sogood said:

I thought the simple signs of over-training are as follows,

- You are not improving nor holding your performance but going backwards.
- Your resting HR is elevated.

Some folks see depressed resting HR and some see no change. The early warning sign for me is restlessness and difficulty getting to sleep at night. If I don't backoff I know I'm deep when I just don't feel like riding and lose all interest in cycling hard or easy. YMMV

daveryanwyoming said:

Some folks see depressed resting HR and some see no change. The early warning sign for me is restlessness and difficulty getting to sleep at night.

Yes, I know that experience.

izatt82 said:

...since there's no hills here i try to do at least one sprint in the middle of my ride until i cant push any more then get back to a decent pace...

You really need to read up on training and energy delivery systems. A max effort sprint in the middle of a paced workout won't make you a better hillclimber nor a better time trialer nor will it help you all that much with racing or fast riding in general. If you throw a random max effort sprint in the middle of an otherwise aerobic tempo or race pace workout you'll just learn to sprint slowly relative to focused sprint workouts and won't do anything for your aerobic metabolism and ability to hold race pace.

If you plan on racing then a dedicated weekly sprint session is a good idea to build your neuromuscular power and ability to fuel your muscles for short maximal efforts with phosphocreatine. That's good stuff, but it's a very small part of the fitness you need to road race well. You really need to start by targeting your aerobic fitness for sustainable race pace efforts. You do this with workouts like 2x20 minute intervals at the best steady pace you can maintain for 20 minutes. This is the core fitness you need to road race. Bring that up a bit and you'll need to work on VO2max fitness to bring up the top end of your aerobic fitness and with that in your bag of tricks you'll need to work on anaerobic tolerance for those make or break crunch times in races when you've gotta put out everything for a minute or so. But without the aerobic fitness the rest doesn't matter much.

Lacking hills you can use headwind sections to build climbing power. Shift into a big gear sit up on with your hands on the bar tops and grind away into the headwind at a steady pace you can just finish for the target duration(at least 10 minutes and better yet 20 minutes for L4 or sustainable aerobic power, 3 to 5 minutes for VO2max work). A short top end sprint will just train you to use anaerobic energy sources which won't help on any hills that take longer than a minute or so to climb.

Good luck,
Dave

thanks for that that is a good start.

thats good stuff okay well then looks like i got a new plan

and i'll start working that in.

so would any other aerobic workoot help as well since it's all cardio?

sounds great yeah the head wind really made me feel like i was climing a 5 mile long hill just none stop presure on me so i guess for know unless i make a trip to ride that will be my hill.

thanks guys great info

overtraining = riding to the point where you can't ride anymore...

If you're overtrained, you're tired, and can't do your intervals, and can't go hard, because you have no power...you're just worn out. If you really overtrain, it could take over 2 weeks to fully recover before you can start going again if you're a novice.