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What is an Altie?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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11 December 2003
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  1. In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above? Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments? Are all ALTIES considered quacks? Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES? What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack ? What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment? Is the only truth accepted
    here science? Who's science ? I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Sean DC

  2. A possible definition for an Altie : A health professional that doesn´t need
    a lawyer.

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ?

  3. See Jan's post in this thread. It demonstrates the mindset of an Altie.

    Note how she is behaiving exactly like she claims others do.

    A person's degree/license is not determinative of the stuatus of being an
    "Altie".

    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above? Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments? Are all ALTIES considered quacks? Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES? What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack ? What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment? Is the only truth accepted
    here science? Who's science ? I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Sean DC

  4. Only a few use such names. It is the result of unnecessary argument
    between people who should be on the same side in aiming for higher ethical
    and scientific standards in relation to the promotion of medical
    treatments.

    An "altie", if I can use that term for once, is characterised by their
    defence of , promotion of, or their use of informal personal testimonial
    or anecdote as the sole basis for activities in medical science or
    commerce.

    Peter Moran

  5. "Marciosos3 Probertiosos3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    See Jan's post in this thread. It demonstrates the mindset of an Altie.

    Note how she is behaiving exactly like she claims others do.

    A person's degree/license is not determinative of the stuatus of being an
    "Altie".

    As Mark P. has pointed out, one of the features that earns someone the
    dubious distinction of being called an "Altie" is a
    foaming-at-the-mouth opposition to criticism of one's firmly held,
    almost religious belief in non-mainstream medicine/science.

    Alties tend to adhere to fringe medical beliefs, those being things
    that have no rational basis and which go contrary to, say, the
    established laws of science and nature.

    Example: Hulda Clark and her adherents/believers/etc. HC believes
    that she has a method that can cure (not "treat", but actually cure)
    any disease known to mankind. It involves using something called a
    Synchrometer (which is actually nothing more than a couple of
    electrodes that measure skin conductivity) for diagnosis, a 9v battery
    powered "Zapper" which is supposed to match electromagnetic harmonies
    and kill offending organisms, and a very odd dietary schedule.

    HC, and her believers, hold to the view that she can cure cancer,
    AIDS, and any other disease with her regimen.

    Here's the kicker: HC holds that ALL cancer is caused by infestation
    with the Chinese Liver Fluke. Never mind that Evil Organized
    Medicine's pathologists have never found the Chinese Liver Fluke in
    any of the thousands of cancer specimens they examine; HC says it,
    and she must be right.

    Another example: Homeopathy. Looking at it with an understanding of
    simple laws of physics, chemistry and thermodynamics exposes it as
    ludicrous. The solutions are literally diluted to the point that an
    Olympic sized swimming pool full of the solvent would not contain even
    a single molecule of the supposedly active ingredient. People who
    slam conventional medicine and shout to the heavens that homeopathy
    holds the cure for all mankind's ills justifiably earn the title
    Altie.

    Another feature of Alties, in my experience, is that they do not
    believe in the placebo effect or the natural course of a lot of human
    illnesses. To suggest that the reason they feel better after taking
    some homeopathic remedy or after having some sort of "aura alignment"
    is due to the placebo effect is likely to send an Altie into a
    conniption fit. Likewise, if you suggest that chiropractic neck
    manipulation didn't cure the kid's earache, but time did, is likely to
    earn you loads of scorn and derision from those who adhere to the idea
    that chiropractic can cure any disease or condition.

    [Let me interject here that I do NOT think all chiropractors or their
    patients fall into the Altie category. I know a few DCs, and they
    tend to be well-grounded guys. One told me, "I consider myself to be
    a very well-paid physical therapist. If your back and joints need
    help, I'm your man." He definitely does not like the segment of
    chiropractic that believes that pyelonephritis and cancer can be cured
    by the right spinal adjustments. Those DCs are the Alties.]

    Anyhow, that's a brief answer to what I think it means to be an Altie,
    or rather, what behavior will cause one to be considered an Altie.

    Mark, MD

  6. Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: What is an Altie?
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 12/11/2003 12:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    Only a few use such names. It is the result of unnecessary argument
    between people who should be on the same side in aiming for higher ethical
    and scientific standards in relation to the promotion of medical
    treatments.

    An "altie", if I can use that term for once, is characterised by their
    defence of , promotion of, or their use of informal personal testimonial
    or anecdote as the sole basis for activities in medical science or
    commerce.

    Peter Moran

    I guess those who believe amalgams are safe are alties.

  7. (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: What is an Altie?
    From: "Peter Moran" [email hidden]
    Date: 12/11/2003 12:16 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id:
    <[email hidden]>

    Only a few use such names. It is the result of unnecessary argument
    between people who should be on the same side in aiming for higher ethical
    and scientific standards in relation to the promotion of medical
    treatments.

    An "altie", if I can use that term for once, is characterised by their
    defence of , promotion of, or their use of informal personal testimonial
    or anecdote as the sole basis for activities in medical science or
    commerce.

    Peter Moran

    I guess those who believe amalgams are safe are alties.

    Wrong. There is massive epidemiologic evidence that amalgams are
    relatively safe. And there is also one compelling anecdote that
    confirms the epidemiologic evidence; Jan Drew's aneccote.

    Aloha,

    Rich

    Quoted message said:

    ------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------

    The best defense to logic is ignorance.

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above?

    Some, but not most, of them. (See below.)

    Quoted message said:

    Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments?

    No. (See below.)

    Quoted message said:

    Are all ALTIES considered quacks?

    No, but a distressingly large number of them seem to be.

    Quoted message said:

    Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES?

    No, but quacks do seem to favor cloaking their snake oil in the mantle
    of "alternative" medicine, the better to sell it.

    Quoted message said:

    What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack?

    Because homeopathy quackery is quackery in my opinion, my answer would
    be yes. Others may disagree with me.

    Quoted message said:

    What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment?

    It depends on the situation and the specific alternative treatment.

    Quoted message said:

    Is the only truth accepted
    here science?

    It is the only reliable method of finding out which treatments work and
    which don't and for what situations. There are other methods, but they
    are not nearly as reliable.

    Quoted message said:

    Who's science ?

    Good science is good science. It is irrelevant who does it. If more
    "alties" did good science (or any halfway acceptable science at all, in
    some cases), they would have a much higher degree of credibility.

    Quoted message said:

    I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Although I suspect the above is just another anti-medicine rant (given
    the large number of rather hostile questions), I will try to answer.

    I used to throw the term around more than I do now. I backed off a bit,
    although I still use the term sometimes when it seems appropriate. To me
    at least, "alties," as opposed to those who are simply interested in
    alternative medicine or practice it, are either alternative medicine
    advocates or practitioners who are characterized by their intense (and
    all too often irrational) mistrust and demonization of conventional
    medicine (often to the point where it seems to me as though they believe
    that conventional medicine can do nothing right); a blind faith in any
    "alternative" treatments, such that they will almost never speak ill of
    any alternative medicine treatment modality or practitioner; and a
    reliance on testimonial and anecdote over clinical trials to convince
    them what works. Others may have somewhat different definitions.

    As for your last question, when an "altie" method (as you put it) is
    validated through clinical trials, it usually becomes accepted as
    mainstream or "conventional" therapy. Sadly, few alternative medicine
    treatments thus far have proven themselves this way.

    That's what I generally mean when I refer to "alties."

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  9. In article <[email hidden]>,

    (Jan) said:
    Quoted message said:

    Subject: Re: What is an Altie?
    From: [email hidden] (Mark)
    Date: 12/11/2003 4:02 PM Pacific Standard Time
    Message-id: <[email hidden]>

    "Marciosos3 Probertiosos3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    See Jan's post in this thread. It demonstrates the mindset of an Altie.

    Yep!!

    It's called the truth.

    The word comes from the debunkers group who are here trying to stop all
    alternaitve.

    The arguments boast their sad egos.

    They are so brainwashed, they don't realize how stupid they appear and
    everyone
    of them enjoys belittling.

    They accuse those who have used the benefits of alternative/complementary
    with
    success of EXACTLY what they are guilty of.

    Many of them are frustrated and the mud slinging and name calling turns they
    on.

    Their aim is to run those who have turned to alternative medicine off of the
    ng.

    I would point out to the person who started this thread that Jan fits my
    definition of "altie" to a T, having all the characteristics of extreme
    irrational mistrust of conventional medicine, unquestioning faith in all
    medicine alternative, and reliance on anecdote and testimonial for
    determining what treatments are effective. In fact, she's a rather
    extreme example.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  10. Doctors don't cure disease. Naturopaths don't cure disease. Chiropractors
    don't cure disease.

    They only make it possible for your body to cure itself by various means.

    "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "Marciosos3 Probertiosos3" <[email hidden]> wrote in


    message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    See Jan's post in this thread. It demonstrates the mindset of an Altie.

    Note how she is behaiving exactly like she claims others do.

    A person's degree/license is not determinative of the stuatus of being


    an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "Altie".

    As Mark P. has pointed out, one of the features that earns someone the
    dubious distinction of being called an "Altie" is a
    foaming-at-the-mouth opposition to criticism of one's firmly held,
    almost religious belief in non-mainstream medicine/science.

    Alties tend to adhere to fringe medical beliefs, those being things
    that have no rational basis and which go contrary to, say, the
    established laws of science and nature.

    Example: Hulda Clark and her adherents/believers/etc. HC believes
    that she has a method that can cure (not "treat", but actually cure)
    any disease known to mankind. It involves using something called a
    Synchrometer (which is actually nothing more than a couple of
    electrodes that measure skin conductivity) for diagnosis, a 9v battery
    powered "Zapper" which is supposed to match electromagnetic harmonies
    and kill offending organisms, and a very odd dietary schedule.

    HC, and her believers, hold to the view that she can cure cancer,
    AIDS, and any other disease with her regimen.

    Here's the kicker: HC holds that ALL cancer is caused by infestation
    with the Chinese Liver Fluke. Never mind that Evil Organized
    Medicine's pathologists have never found the Chinese Liver Fluke in
    any of the thousands of cancer specimens they examine; HC says it,
    and she must be right.

    Another example: Homeopathy. Looking at it with an understanding of
    simple laws of physics, chemistry and thermodynamics exposes it as
    ludicrous. The solutions are literally diluted to the point that an
    Olympic sized swimming pool full of the solvent would not contain even
    a single molecule of the supposedly active ingredient. People who
    slam conventional medicine and shout to the heavens that homeopathy
    holds the cure for all mankind's ills justifiably earn the title
    Altie.

    Another feature of Alties, in my experience, is that they do not
    believe in the placebo effect or the natural course of a lot of human
    illnesses. To suggest that the reason they feel better after taking
    some homeopathic remedy or after having some sort of "aura alignment"
    is due to the placebo effect is likely to send an Altie into a
    conniption fit. Likewise, if you suggest that chiropractic neck
    manipulation didn't cure the kid's earache, but time did, is likely to
    earn you loads of scorn and derision from those who adhere to the idea
    that chiropractic can cure any disease or condition.

    [Let me interject here that I do NOT think all chiropractors or their
    patients fall into the Altie category. I know a few DCs, and they
    tend to be well-grounded guys. One told me, "I consider myself to be
    a very well-paid physical therapist. If your back and joints need
    help, I'm your man." He definitely does not like the segment of
    chiropractic that believes that pyelonephritis and cancer can be cured
    by the right spinal adjustments. Those DCs are the Alties.]

    Anyhow, that's a brief answer to what I think it means to be an Altie,
    or rather, what behavior will cause one to be considered an Altie.

    Mark, MD

  11. Orac <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above?

    Some, but not most, of them. (See below.)

    Quoted message said:

    Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments?

    No. (See below.)

    Quoted message said:

    Are all ALTIES considered quacks?

    No, but a distressingly large number of them seem to be.

    Quoted message said:

    Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES?

    No, but quacks do seem to favor cloaking their snake oil in the mantle
    of "alternative" medicine, the better to sell it.

    Quoted message said:

    What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack?

    Because homeopathy quackery is quackery in my opinion, my answer would
    be yes. Others may disagree with me.

    Quoted message said:

    What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment?

    It depends on the situation and the specific alternative treatment.

    Quoted message said:

    Is the only truth accepted
    here science?

    It is the only reliable method of finding out which treatments work and
    which don't and for what situations. There are other methods, but they
    are not nearly as reliable.

    Quoted message said:

    Who's science ?

    Good science is good science. It is irrelevant who does it. If more
    "alties" did good science (or any halfway acceptable science at all, in
    some cases), they would have a much higher degree of credibility.

    Quoted message said:

    I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Although I suspect the above is just another anti-medicine rant (given
    the large number of rather hostile questions), I will try to answer.


    David,
    Sorry it is not an antimedicine rant at all, it is however an
    anti-closemindedness rant....

    Quoted message said:

    I used to throw the term around more than I do now. I backed off a bit,
    although I still use the term sometimes when it seems appropriate. To me
    at least, "alties," as opposed to those who are simply interested in
    alternative medicine or practice it, are either alternative medicine
    advocates or practitioners who are characterized by their intense (and
    all too often irrational) mistrust and demonization of conventional
    medicine (often to the point where it seems to me as though they believe
    that conventional medicine can do nothing right); a blind faith in any
    "alternative" treatments, such that they will almost never speak ill of
    any alternative medicine treatment modality or practitioner; and a
    reliance on testimonial and anecdote over clinical trials to convince
    them what works. Others may have somewhat different definitions.

    As for your last question, when an "altie" method (as you put it) is
    validated through clinical trials, it usually becomes accepted as
    mainstream or "conventional" therapy. Sadly, few alternative medicine
    treatments thus far have proven themselves this way.

    That's what I generally mean when I refer to "alties."

  12. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above? Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments? Are all ALTIES considered quacks? Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES? What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack ? What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment? Is the only truth accepted
    here science? Who's science ? I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Sean DC

    If you believe that doctors, scientists, and the pharmaceutical companies
    conspire to suppress your favorite "alternative medicine" modality, you may
    be an altie.

    If you like to claim that science is a religion, you may be an altie.

    If you accept anecdote and testimonial as adequate evidence that an
    "alternative" therapy "works," you may be an altie.

    If you make claims for a product or therapy like, "strengthens the immune
    system," or "restores balance," or "detoxifies the liver," or "cleanses the
    intestines," you may be an altie.

    If you are impressed by such claims when made by others, you may be an
    altie.

    If you do most of your scientific research on websites that are selling
    "alternative health" products, you may be an altie.

    If you carefully avoid any criticism of any "alternative medicine"
    practitioner, product, or theory, regardless of how silly or fraudulent it
    may be, you may be an altie.

    If you accept every vilification of medicine and science as Truth,
    regardless of the source, you may be an altie.

    If you believe that vaccines "don't work" or that they cause autism or other
    chronic diseases, you may be an altie.

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be an
    altie.

    --Rich

  13. "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above? Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments? Are all ALTIES considered quacks? Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES? What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack ? What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment? Is the only truth accepted
    here science? Who's science ? I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Sean DC

    If you believe that doctors, scientists, and the pharmaceutical companies
    conspire to suppress your favorite "alternative medicine" modality, you


    may

    Quoted message said:

    be an altie.

    If you like to claim that science is a religion, you may be an altie.

    If you accept anecdote and testimonial as adequate evidence that an
    "alternative" therapy "works," you may be an altie.

    If you make claims for a product or therapy like, "strengthens the immune
    system," or "restores balance," or "detoxifies the liver," or "cleanses


    the

    Quoted message said:

    intestines," you may be an altie.

    If you are impressed by such claims when made by others, you may be an
    altie.

    If you do most of your scientific research on websites that are selling
    "alternative health" products, you may be an altie.

    If you carefully avoid any criticism of any "alternative medicine"
    practitioner, product, or theory, regardless of how silly or fraudulent it
    may be, you may be an altie.

    If you accept every vilification of medicine and science as Truth,
    regardless of the source, you may be an altie.

    If you believe that vaccines "don't work" or that they cause autism or


    other

    Quoted message said:

    chronic diseases, you may be an altie.

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be an
    altie.

    And...if you do all of these things.....

    someone transplanted Jan Drew's brain into your head.....

    (BTW, great post...a keeper under the title "You May Be An Altie if..."

  14. "Marciosos3 Probertiosos3" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide alternative
    treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    above? Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    techniques and treatments? Are all ALTIES considered quacks? Are all
    quacks considered ALTIES? What if a conventional MD gives a
    homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack ? What are the
    parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    help someone with an alternative treatment? Is the only truth accepted
    here science? Who's science ? I know my simple question turned into a
    slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....

    Sean DC

    If you believe that doctors, scientists, and the pharmaceutical


    companies

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    conspire to suppress your favorite "alternative medicine" modality, you


    may

    Quoted message said:

    be an altie.

    If you like to claim that science is a religion, you may be an altie.

    If you accept anecdote and testimonial as adequate evidence that an
    "alternative" therapy "works," you may be an altie.

    If you make claims for a product or therapy like, "strengthens the


    immune

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    system," or "restores balance," or "detoxifies the liver," or "cleanses


    the

    Quoted message said:

    intestines," you may be an altie.

    If you are impressed by such claims when made by others, you may be an
    altie.

    If you do most of your scientific research on websites that are selling
    "alternative health" products, you may be an altie.

    If you carefully avoid any criticism of any "alternative medicine"
    practitioner, product, or theory, regardless of how silly or fraudulent


    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    may be, you may be an altie.

    If you accept every vilification of medicine and science as Truth,
    regardless of the source, you may be an altie.

    If you believe that vaccines "don't work" or that they cause autism or


    other

    Quoted message said:

    chronic diseases, you may be an altie.

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be an
    altie.

    And...if you do all of these things.....

    someone transplanted Jan Drew's brain into your head.....

    (BTW, great post...a keeper under the title "You May Be An Altie if..."

    Add:

    If you think misc.health.alternative should be a sunny little support group
    where true believers in alternative healthcare share testimonials and
    gleefully trash science and medicine without comment from skeptics, you may
    be an altie.

    If you think MHA should be awash in advertising for snake oil quackery and
    other spam, you may be an altie.

    Feel free to add a few of your own.

    --Rich

  15. "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Marciosos3 Probertiosos3" <[email hidden]> wrote in


    message

    Quoted message said:

    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    > In most discussions on this board the term "Altie" is thrown around
    > quite a bit. I have a very simple question, could I please get a
    > definition here ? Does this term refer to MD's who provide


    alternative

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > treatments and methodologies, Acupuncturists, Chiro's,Psychologists,
    > Psychics, Integrative, Complimentary or some combination of all the
    > above? Does an ALTIE incude "anyone" who does not perform
    > scientifically( correction double blind, ranomized model)proven
    > techniques and treatments? Are all ALTIES considered quacks? Are all
    > quacks considered ALTIES? What if a conventional MD gives a
    > homeopathic remedy? Is he/she then considered a quack ? What are the
    > parameters and limits to this term ? Is it considered unethical to
    > help someone with an alternative treatment? Is the only truth


    accepted

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > here science? Who's science ? I know my simple question turned into


    a

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    > slew of questions and I am sorry about that.Or does it come down to
    > any practice listed on Barretts webite and BAM you are an "ALTIE"
    > signed, sealed, and delivered. One more question, if an ALTIE method
    > becomes valid through scientific discovery are you the considered an
    > "UNALTIE" ? Just wondering and curious as to the answers.....
    >
    > Sean DC

    If you believe that doctors, scientists, and the pharmaceutical


    companies

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    conspire to suppress your favorite "alternative medicine" modality,


    you

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    may

    Quoted message said:

    be an altie.

    If you like to claim that science is a religion, you may be an altie.

    If you accept anecdote and testimonial as adequate evidence that an
    "alternative" therapy "works," you may be an altie.

    If you make claims for a product or therapy like, "strengthens the


    immune

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    system," or "restores balance," or "detoxifies the liver," or


    "cleanses

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    the

    Quoted message said:

    intestines," you may be an altie.

    If you are impressed by such claims when made by others, you may be an
    altie.

    If you do most of your scientific research on websites that are


    selling

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    "alternative health" products, you may be an altie.

    If you carefully avoid any criticism of any "alternative medicine"
    practitioner, product, or theory, regardless of how silly or


    fraudulent

    Quoted message said:

    it

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    may be, you may be an altie.

    If you accept every vilification of medicine and science as Truth,
    regardless of the source, you may be an altie.

    If you believe that vaccines "don't work" or that they cause autism or


    other

    Quoted message said:

    chronic diseases, you may be an altie.

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be


    an

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    altie.

    And...if you do all of these things.....

    someone transplanted Jan Drew's brain into your head.....

    (BTW, great post...a keeper under the title "You May Be An Altie if..."

    Add:

    If you think misc.health.alternative should be a sunny little support


    group

    Quoted message said:

    where true believers in alternative healthcare share testimonials and
    gleefully trash science and medicine without comment from skeptics, you


    may

    Quoted message said:

    be an altie.

    If you think MHA should be awash in advertising for snake oil quackery and
    other spam, you may be an altie.

    Feel free to add a few of your own.

    If you think Jan Drew is in touch with reality,you may be an altie...

  16. Rich Shewmaker said:

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be an
    altie.

    I have to admit that if you go to whale.to, your browser will display
    true, working URLs in the Address box.

    Also, the picture of me at http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html is a
    reasonable likeness.

    --
    Peter Bowditch
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    The Green Light http://www.ratbags.com/greenlight
    and The New Improved Quintessence of the Loon with added Vitamins and C-Q10 http://www.ratbags.com/loon
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Rich Shewmaker said:

    If you believe that doctors, scientists, and the pharmaceutical companies
    conspire to suppress your favorite "alternative medicine" modality, you may
    be an altie.

    If you like to claim that science is a religion, you may be an altie.

    If you accept anecdote and testimonial as adequate evidence that an
    "alternative" therapy "works," you may be an altie.

    If you make claims for a product or therapy like, "strengthens the immune
    system," or "restores balance," or "detoxifies the liver," or "cleanses the
    intestines," you may be an altie.

    If you are impressed by such claims when made by others, you may be an
    altie.

    If you do most of your scientific research on websites that are selling
    "alternative health" products, you may be an altie.

    If you carefully avoid any criticism of any "alternative medicine"
    practitioner, product, or theory, regardless of how silly or fraudulent it
    may be, you may be an altie.

    If you accept every vilification of medicine and science as Truth,
    regardless of the source, you may be an altie.

    If you believe that vaccines "don't work" or that they cause autism or other
    chronic diseases, you may be an altie.

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be an
    altie.

    If you believe that alternative medicine practitioners are far more
    moral (ant therefore uncorruptable by money) and caring for their
    patients than conventional doctors, you may be an altie.

    If you believe that those selling alternative medicines have every right
    to charge high prices for their products (example: GlowLife Dave
    charging hundreds of dollars for a tin of Ginseng powder) but that
    pharmaceutical companies, who invest billions of dollars getting a new
    drug developed, tested, and approved, don't, you may be an altie.

    If you dismiss every well-designed clinical study that failed to show a
    benefit of an alternative medicine or therapy over placebo as not
    proving anything, you may be an altie.

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  18. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Marciosos4 Probertiosos4 said:

    "Rich Shewmaker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    If you think MHA should be awash in advertising for snake oil quackery and
    other spam, you may be an altie.

    Feel free to add a few of your own.

    If you think Jan Drew is in touch with reality,you may be an altie...

    ROTFLMAO!

    --
    Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent."
    |
    |"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you
    | inconvenience me with questions?"

  19. Quoted message said:

    Add:

    If you think misc.health.alternative should be a sunny little support group
    where true believers in alternative healthcare share testimonials and
    gleefully trash science and medicine without comment from skeptics, you may
    be an altie.

    If you think MHA should be awash in advertising for snake oil quackery and
    other spam, you may be an altie.

    Feel free to add a few of your own.

    --Rich

    If you feel that the MHA 10 Commandments are blashpemy, you might be an altie.

  20. "Peter Bowditch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Rich Shewmaker said:

    If you believe ANYTHING you read at http://www.whale.to , you may be an
    altie.

    I have to admit that if you go to whale.to, your browser will display
    true, working URLs in the Address box.

    Also, the picture of me at http://www.whale.to/a/bowditch.html is a
    reasonable likeness.

    I assume you mean the full pic, not just the highly cropped one.

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