What is a trouble with ?too dry? degreasing?

Leon said:

Very often on product sites I read advise do not use such
degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated spirit, paint
naphtha, etc. They are concert about problem with "too
dry" chain.

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with "too dry"
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after cleaning.
I clean chain in a bottle with methylated spirit. I shake
this, change spirit, shake again, wipe away spirit, dry,
and apply lubricant. What is wrong with this method?

Nothing! Don't believe everything you read.

Matt O.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Leon
Very often on product sites I read advise do not use such
degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated spirit, paint
naphtha, etc. They are concert about problem with “too
dry” chain.

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with “too dry”
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after cleaning. I
clean chain in a bottle with methylated spirit. I shake
this, change spirit, shake again, wipe away spirit, dry, and
apply lubricant. What is wrong with this method?

Regards

The key to the process is to get the chain dry where you can't see and actually "dry" it with a rag or anything external... excepting heat, manipulation, and time.
The lubicant needs to flow to the inside of the chain rollers.
If there is residual solvent in there, it impedes the flow.
Your method is fine as long as the "dry" step makes sure that the solvent is dry and your lubiricant application flows to th inside of the rollers.

See Sheldon Brown's article on this:

<http://sheldonbrown.com/chains.html>

Jobst Brandt posts a very useful article on this in response, from time to time, but I can't find it now. Maybe another reader will post it if Jobst doesn't.

"Matt O'Toole" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Leon said:

Very often on product sites I read advise do not use
such degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated
spirit, paint naphtha, etc. They are concert about
problem with "too dry" chain.

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with "too dry"
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after
cleaning. I clean chain in a bottle with methylated
spirit. I shake this, change spirit, shake again, wipe
away spirit, dry, and apply lubricant. What is wrong
with this method?

Nothing! Don't believe everything you read.

Matt O.

nothing wrong. but does it need to be degreased anyway? you
can also use water and some type of detergent.

the very best you can do it prevent the chain to pick up any
road dirt+sand. you can do this by using a non-grease
lubricant like wax based on graphite and paraffine.

Bert L.

--
Posted by news://news.nb.nu

Leon said:

Very often on product sites I read advise do not use such
degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated spirit, paint
naphtha, etc. They are concert about problem with "too
dry" chain.

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with "too dry"
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after cleaning.
I clean chain in a bottle with methylated spirit. I shake
this, change spirit, shake again, wipe away spirit, dry,
and apply lubricant. What is wrong with this method?

The place where lubicant is needed is inside the chain,
where the plates rotate against each other. When you soak a
chain in degreaser this lube is removed and the chain will
wear rapidly if you do not replace it.

There is no need to degrease a chain except for looks. It's
better just to wipe the chain down, then lube it, then wipe
again (without using any degreaser or other solvent).

Bruce

Bruce Frech said:

Quoted message said:

Very often on product sites I read advise do not use such
degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated spirit,
paint naphtha, etc. They are concert about problem with
"too dry" chain.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with "too dry"
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after cleaning.
I clean chain in a bottle with methylated spirit. I shake
this, change spirit, shake again, wipe away spirit, dry,
and apply lubricant. What is wrong with this method?

Quoted message said:

The place where lubicant is needed is inside the chain,
where the plates rotate against each other. When you soak
a chain in degreaser this lube is removed and the chain
will wear rapidly if you do not replace it.

Quoted message said:

There is no need to degrease a chain except for looks.
It's better just to wipe the chain down, then lube it,
then wipe again (without using any degreaser or other
solvent).

I disagree. This comes up so often that we have an FAQ on
that:

draco.acs.uci.edu8d.2.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

what's wrong with this method? get a mirror, pour a little
pure spirit straight out of the bottle onto it and let it
evaporate. see that residue? that's dissolved goop, some of
which is abrasive.

wipe, lube, ride. never ever use solvents.

Leon said:

Very often on product sites I read advise do not use such
degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated spirit, paint
naphtha, etc. They are concert about problem with “too
dry” chain.

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with “too dry”
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after cleaning.
I clean chain in a bottle with methylated spirit. I shake
this, change spirit, shake again, wipe away spirit, dry,
and apply lubricant. What is wrong with this method?

Regards

Thank you everybody!

That is clear now.

Regards

I never pour spirit on chain. I use botle with spirit and
shaiking shain there, a lots of dirt comming out. I did see
any "goop" on shain after such cleaning.

Leon said:

Very often on product sites I read advise do not use such
degreasers as kerosene, gasoline, methylated spirit, paint
naphtha, etc. They are concert about problem with “too
dry” chain.

Please, explain me, what is a trouble with “too dry”
degreasing. I always apply some lubricant after cleaning.
I clean chain in a bottle with methylated spirit. I shake
this, change spirit, shake again, wipe away spirit, dry,
and apply lubricant. What is wrong with this method?

I think the point is that you shouldn't leave solvent
residues on the chain as they will "cut" the oil. The best
way to remove solvents is a strong detergent solution, water
rinse, and dry in an oven or on a radiator. Evaporation
could take a long time from inside the links.

Zog The Undeniable said:

I think the point is that you shouldn't leave solvent
residues on the chain as they will "cut" the oil.

What harm will a (slightly) thinner lube cause? A case
could be made that the solvent will help penetration and
then evaporate. Most oil-based solvents will evaporate
quickly anyway.

Come to think of it, that's what Boeshield is--lube with an
evaporating solvent to carry it.

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA

just because you can't see it easily doesn't mean it's not
there. that's why i suggested the mirror test where you
/can/ see it easily!

Leon said:

I never pour spirit on chain. I use botle with spirit and
shaiking shain there, a lots of dirt comming out. I did
see any "goop" on shain after such cleaning.

I do not understand your point. Do you mean that wiping
makes chain more clean then two times shaking in bottle
with pure methylated spirit? May you wipe dirt from
inside of chain?

Think of the cost/benefit of the two methods wipe,
spray, wipe
+ minimal time, the wear locations get lube, and lube
that was there internally is still there, if you use a
dry lube then there is not much dirt
- internal dirt is not removed, chain still shows dirt
(cosmetic beauty or lack thereof)

break chain, imerse in bottle, dry, lube, reattach
+ removes most dirt, chain is pretty (cosmetic beauty)
- might not remove all dirt so there might still be dirt
in the wear locations, major time effort, possible weak
link at attachement point, the wear points have all
lube removed and if the lubrication isn't done well
then they might be unprotected.

I agree that the 2nd method might better clean the chain. So
let's assume that it lets a chain last 5,000 miles versus
3,333 miles for the quick & easy. (2 versus 3 chains per
10,000 miles) But if I had to spend 15 minutes every 500
miles that's 20 cleanings, versus less than 5 minutes, or
20*10 = more then 3 hours difference. I'd rather buy one
more chain to save 3 hours of dirty work. (would someone
give better estimate of the time needed for all the work in
the bottle method?)

So it's a choice of where to put your time. I have a bike to
ride, not to clean. Half my 10,000 miles a year are
commuting, and I don't care how the bike looks as long as it
works and I don't have to drive when I don't want to.

Bruce

"Leon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:opr72xnmal0lcd5c@dell8200...

Quoted message said:

I do not understand your point. Do you mean that wiping
makes chain more clean then two times shaking in bottle
with pure methylated spirit? May you wipe dirt from inside
of chain?

draco.acs.uci.edu8d.2.htmlOpen ↗

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

"Bruce Frech" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Think of the cost/benefit of the two methods wipe,
spray, wipe
+ minimal time, the wear locations get lube, and lube
that was there internally is still there, if you use
a dry lube then there is not much dirt
- internal dirt is not removed, chain still shows dirt
(cosmetic beauty or lack thereof)

break chain, imerse in bottle, dry, lube, reattach
+ removes most dirt, chain is pretty (cosmetic beauty)
- might not remove all dirt so there might still be
dirt in the wear locations, major time effort,
possible weak link at attachement point, the wear
points have all lube removed and if the lubrication
isn't done well then they might be unprotected.

I agree that the 2nd method might better clean the chain.
So let's assume that it lets a chain last 5,000 miles
versus 3,333 miles for the quick & easy. (2 versus 3
chains per 10,000 miles) But if I had to spend 15 minutes
every 500 miles that's 20 cleanings, versus less than 5
minutes, or 20*10 = more then 3 hours difference. I'd
rather buy one more chain to save 3 hours of dirty work.
(would someone give better estimate of the time needed for
all the work in the bottle method?)

So it's a choice of where to put your time. I have a bike
to ride, not to clean. Half my 10,000 miles a year are
commuting, and I don't care how the bike looks as long as
it works and I don't have to drive when I don't want to.

I'm with you, Bruce. I used to spend all kinds of time
cleaning my chains. Nowadays I just replace them when worn,
and oil them when noisy. I might clean a chain (soak method)
once in it's lifetime if I have the time and facilities.

Robin Hubert

I use two chains Sram PC 99. One chain is clean and
lubricated, other on my bike. When is time to clean, I take
off the dirty chain (with PowerLink it is very easy)and put
on the clean chain.

The dirty chain goes to the shaking bath, next day this
chain gets some lubricant. That all. That does not take a
long time and not expensive.

Bruce Frech said:

Think of the cost/benefit of the two methods wipe,
spray, wipe
+ minimal time, the wear locations get lube, and lube
that was there internally is still there, if you use
a dry lube then there is not much dirt
- internal dirt is not removed, chain still shows dirt
(cosmetic beauty or lack thereof)

break chain, imerse in bottle, dry, lube, reattach
+ removes most dirt, chain is pretty (cosmetic beauty)
- might not remove all dirt so there might still be
dirt in the wear locations, major time effort,
possible weak link at attachement point, the wear
points have all lube removed and if the lubrication
isn't done well then they might be unprotected.

I agree that the 2nd method might better clean the chain.
So let's assume that it lets a chain last 5,000 miles
versus 3,333 miles for the quick & easy. (2 versus 3
chains per 10,000 miles) But if I had to spend 15 minutes
every 500 miles that's 20 cleanings, versus less than 5
minutes, or 20*10 = more then 3 hours difference. I'd
rather buy one more chain to save 3 hours of dirty work.
(would someone give better estimate of the time needed for
all the work in the bottle method?)

So it's a choice of where to put your time. I have a bike
to ride, not to clean. Half my 10,000 miles a year are
commuting, and I don't care how the bike looks as long as
it works and I don't have to drive when I don't want to.

Bruce

"Leon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:opr72xnmal0lcd5c@dell8200...

Quoted message said:

I do not understand your point. Do you mean that wiping
makes chain more clean then two times shaking in bottle
with pure methylated spirit? May you wipe dirt from
inside of chain?