What is a "nutritional expert?"

I read your guidelines on vitamin C and the doses you recommend FAIL to
control my symptoms of my condition Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

The main daily symptoms are unrelenting Fatigue & bodily Flu/Viral type
pain..

Treatments and medications by Australian doctors FAIL to provide any
significant relief.

ONLY Ascorbic Acid powder at 15-20 grams at a time provide symptom
relief after about an hour or so.

Lesser amounts FAIL to provide any relief from the viral/flu symptoms.

There are a lot positive studies by American doctors about Megadosing
of Vitamin C to treat viral conditions that I do not see mentioned in
your website.

Please come to - http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/ and post your
views/beliefs.

The moderator - Owen Ofonorow - would be better able to answer some of
your concerns about vitamin C dosing/usage.

Your website does contain good information

rmb60 said:

The main daily symptoms are unrelenting Fatigue & bodily Flu/Viral type
pain..

Have you ever stopped to consider that chronic use of any type of drug
has nasty side effects?

The more you use of anything the less effective it is.

Also, people's livers/kidneys have been known to fail from time to
time.

Just something for you to think about.

Please go to -- http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/ and join a bunch
a well-meaning people who try to mainly help each other.

Your views would be listened to and responded to.

John the Quack is exactly the kind of individual who is often
mistakenly seen as a "nutritional expert" by ill and desperate people,
and is why it's so important to understand the connection between the
actual evidence and the people who claim to know so much about it that
they can make all kinds of generalizations and recommendations.

To rmb60:

You seem to want a "magic pill," but almost in every case these kinds
of things will only offer temporary relief. I think I can help you,
but the first thing to do is to isolate the cause of your "CFS." It
could be hydroencephaly, orthostatic hypotension, hypothyroidism
(possibly sub-clinical), pyschological stress exhausting the adrenals,
or any number of things. Vitamin C recylces E, and can help in the
lipid peroxidation context to some degree, but I don't see any
molecular mechanism whereby it would relieve "CFS," assuming it is not
a placebo effect. If you'd like to provide all relevant information:
age, gender, diet, supplements, family history, medications, sleep
(quantity/quality), symptoms, medical history, lifestyle stressors,
etc., I will give you some suggestions. At one point, I could not walk
around for more than a few minutes without becoming very fatigued, so I
have a sense of what you are dealing with. Nothing to lose: I don't
charge anything.

male 45, first diagnosed cfs 1990 was only mild, in remission c/-
Megadosing Vit C, Lysine & Magnesium ~ Jun 2003 till stressfull events
Aug & Dec 2004 and now worse than ever.

Magic Pill would be great, but for now magic powder is helping.

I have a hidden agenda --- to get better..

I was a self-employed Electronics/Mechanical Service Technician so
luckily I believe I am still blessed with a logically thinking mind and
have ruled out any potential Placebo Effect.

I believe my CFS is mainly viral related C/- of ongoing
supression/reactivation cycle c/- over-exertion/stress.
Viral effects on Cardiac Muscle reduces cardiac performance =chest
pain/breathlessness= orthostatic hypotension/dizziness/weakness/fog
etc.
I also believe there is a type of Adrenal 'problem' in my case?

I have read WAY TOO MUCH research to be put off megadose usage of
Vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid)

Megadosing of Vitamin C has very powerful Anti-Viral properties.

My CFS cycle usually starts with headache, then general body pain,chest
pain, breathlessness, flu symptoms, fatigue c/- exertion/stress.
When this cycle starts I will take a dose of ~15 to 20 grams of
Ascorbic Acid and depending on severity I will take further equivalent
doses on an hourly basis till I start to feel symptom reduction.

This method HAS NEVER FAILED to provide temporary relief/reduction in
symptoms.

Lower amounts of Ascorbic fail to work and it it this 'ramping up'
method THAT ALWAYS WORKS FOR ME.

If you have a headache and take one asprin & it doesn't help do you
then take no more and say asprin doesnt work and is useless? Generally
no, you take 2, 3 or more, doesn't cure them permanently but does
normally provide relief/reduction at the correct dose !!

Thats how it is with Ascorbic Acid & viruses, too little is not enough,
too much will work but may also cause gas & runny stools.

If I take massive bad day amounts of Ascorbic Acid on a good day then
gas/run city here I come.
But the same amount of Ascorbic Acid on a bad day does not cause the
gas/runs.
Why not? Because my body is using the large amounts of Vit C on a bad
day to fight the virus, where on a good day I need less so then the
excess Ascorbic Acid is unused tirggering bowel retaliation -- putting
it nicely.

My belief has a large medical & general following
http://vitamincfoundation.org/forum/

Please read these forums before attempting to discourage my
use/reliance on Vit C

Quoted message said:

Why Supplement?

http://supplements.naturalhealthperspective.com/poordiets.html

Since I advocate moderation, I am attacked by Kooks both to the left
and right of my position. 🙁

And, since I recommend supplementing more than the RDA's, I can be
attacked as advocating Orthomolecular Medicine or Mega-vitamin therapy.
But, from the way I look at it, as long as there are people floating
around who take 60 grams a day of Vitamin C it is absolutely ludicrous
to call my approach Orthomolecular Medicine or Mega-vitamin therapy.

Furthermore, my vitamin C story article, is clearly addressing only two
questions. Is a time-released version of Vitamin C necessary? And,
how much should a normal health person be taking of vitamin C every
day? To find out, you must read the article.
http://supplements.naturalhealthperspective.com/vitamincstory.html
This article does NOT deal with using vitamin C to prevent or treat
colds or any other health condition like CFS, for example.
--
john gohde
http://supplements.naturalhealthperspective.com/poordiets.html

rmb60 said:

If you have a headache and take one asprin & it doesn't help do you
then take no more and say asprin doesnt work and is useless? Generally
no, you take 2, 3 or more, doesn't cure them permanently but does
normally provide relief/reduction at the correct dose !!

Reasoning like the above is precisely the reason "Acetaminophen Is
Leading Cause of Acute Liver Failure."
http://www.medpagetoday.com/Gastroenterology/GeneralHepatology/tb/2233
Of course, chronic abuse of aspirin also has a lot of deadly negative
side effects associated with it.

And, what is true for both for Acetaminophen and Aspirin is also true
for Ascorbic Acid. More of the current symptoms that you are seeking
relief from are directly and exclusively due to your chronic abuse of
ascorbic acid. Your originial CFS health condition has probably long
since disappeared.

Quoted message said:

If you have a headache and take one asprin & it doesn't help do you
then take no more and say asprin doesnt work and is useless?

Precisely!!!

Mega-vitamin therapy with vitamin C to treat any health condition is
ALWAYS done on a temporary basis. You take it to cure a specific
health condition. The fact that it did NOT, according to your own
words, cure your CFS condition within a relatively short period of
time, proves beyond a shallow of a doubt that Vitamin C was NOT
effective against your CFS.

Your chronic use of vitamin C in order to get relief labels you as a
self-admitted drug addict looking for a fix. And, to repeat: You
should eventually expect some type of a major negative side effect like
an acute kidney failure.
--
john gohde
http://naturalhealthperspective.com