What headlight do I need?

Georg---

I can't speak highly enough about the DiNotte. It's super bright,
well designed, uses non-proprietary batteries, and has a very small
footprint. It's currently on sale at Performance and Nashbar for $200. If
you're a Team Performance member you get 10% back in points, so that's a
good deal. I have no experience with the Vega, but the DiNotte is a great
light. I live just north of you in Citrus County, so I understand the need
for a good light, since it gets dark at 5:30 or so later in the winter.

Mike

"Schorschi" wrote ..

Quoted message said:

What I'm looking for is this:
<snip>
- Need to be able to see obstacles (rocks, broken glass, roadkill, ...)
ahead of me for speeds of 20-22 mph.
- Can't justify to spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and

Quoted message said:

Halogen lights.
- Want to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible.
- Commute is 50-60 minutes one way.

<snip>

Have you considered a hub dynamo or a sidewall generator lighting system? A
good hub dynamo system would meet your performance requirements for about
$250 (Shimano DH-3N71, Busch & Muller Lumotec halogen light, new rim,
spokes, labor to build wheel). There are cheaper systems that offer more
drag, more weight, less light output and shorter generator life, as well as
much more expensive systems that offer less drag, less weight, longer system
life and slightly more light output. I've been using the system I just
described, it seems to meet your requirements while barely meeting your
price limit.

A generator driven off the front tire would cost less but would be hard on
the tire sidewall, would be prone to slipping on a wet tire, and would
create more drag when the generator is engaged, no drag when it is not
engaged.

Either way there are no batteries to worry about, just flip a switch whrn
you want light.

Check out these sites for more info: www.peterwhitecycles.com,
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/ .

HTH,
--
mark

mark said:

"Schorschi" wrote ..

Quoted message said:

What I'm looking for is this:
<snip>
- Need to be able to see obstacles (rocks, broken glass, roadkill, ...)
ahead of me for speeds of 20-22 mph.
- Can't justify to spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and

Quoted message said:

Halogen lights.
- Want to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible.
- Commute is 50-60 minutes one way.

<snip>

Have you considered a hub dynamo or a sidewall generator lighting system?

That's what I was going to ask.

Quoted message said:

A
good hub dynamo system would meet your performance requirements for about
$250 (Shimano DH-3N71, Busch & Muller Lumotec halogen light, new rim,
spokes, labor to build wheel).

But you don't need to spend anywhere near that much.

Quoted message said:

There are cheaper systems that offer more
drag, more weight, less light output and shorter generator life, as well as
much more expensive systems that offer less drag, less weight, longer system
life and slightly more light output.

I'd rephrase that.

There are generator light sets available for prices anywhere from $15 to
$250. In general, the cheaper ones cause more drag and won't last as
long. The very cheapest won't be as bright, but that's generally
because they use vacuum, rather than halogen bulbs. Put in a $7 halogen
bulb and they can be quite bright.

Cheap generator sets may have less precise optics (that is, they may
waste some of the light output), but in most cases, the optics for _any_
generator set are much better than that of the high-priced rechargeable
sets. Almost all generators are close to 3 watts output, so the
quantity of light output doesn't vary all that much. And yes, 3 watts
is plenty if you have optics that put the lumens where needed, not up
into the air. If needed, some generators allow fitting two lamps, for
six watts output.

I use mostly "roller" generators, the kind that rotate parallel to the
wheel. My old Soubitez sets are decades old and still running
perfectly. (Well, my tires have worn down the roller's drive surface on
some of them. I'll have to do something about that someday, before I
wear all the way into the generator's magnets.)

The Schmidt hub generator is reputedly the best. Many users say there's
nothing better, but their price is high enough that I haven't tried one.
Shimano makes some hub units that get good reviews. Other makers
offer "bottle" units or "roller" units.

The main problem with generators is that they're hard to find in
America. They're simply out of fashion here. You can find some at
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/lightingsystems.htm

http://www.yellowjersey.org/bike_gear.html

http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?cat208.htm

and lots of detailed test info at
http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/dynotest.html

Quoted message said:

Either way there are no batteries to worry about, just flip a switch whrn
you want light.

Yep. I used to use rechargeables. I decided they're just not worth the
hassle. (Can you imagine doing that stuff for your car's headlights?)

- Frank Krygowski

25 Nov 2005 22:58:50 -0800 said:

Hi there,

I'm a regular bike commuter in Clearwater, FL and am looking for a good
headlight with which I can see (not just be seen). Currently, I'm using
a couple of skimpy LED lights.

I'm riding along mostly lit roads with medium to heavy car traffic.
There are stretches of road that are unlit. So, there is a lot of
ambient light available most of the way, but with dark stretches in
between street lights and lots of changes from bright to dark due to
cars passing me on the completely unlit stretches.

What I'm looking for is this:

- Need to be able to see obstacles (rocks, broken glass, roadkill, ...)
ahead of me for speeds of 20-22 mph.
- Can't justify to spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and
Halogen lights.
- Want to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible.
- Commute is 50-60 minutes one way.

I've narrowed my search down to the Vega from Light & Motion, but I'm
not sure if it's suitable for my needs. My question is, does this light
reach far enough ahead of me to leave me enough reaction time to avoid
obstacles on the shoulder? If it does, will I be able to see the
obstacle when it's just in front of me, or is the Vega's beam focused
that much that I will be blind to anything outside the light's focus?

I also thought about perhaps getting two Vegas, one to point close, one
farther away ahead.

Then I've come across the DiNotte Ultralight, which seems to be similar
to the Vega, though with a more spread beam, but I'm not sure if it's
effectively brighter than the Vega.

Also, one DiNotte is about as expensive as two Vegas.

So, can these LEDs light my path far enough ahead of me or can this
only be achieved with the high-powered lights?

Georg

If you commute regularly in the dark, a dynahup is the logical investment,
I think. I carry an abundance of two battery lights beside the dynahub
light on my daily niteride.
I have not yet seen a LED light that gives a satisfying light to see by.
The test i read in magazines from time to time still reach that same
conlusion.
I need halogen lights for my old eyes and I can recommend CatEye HL500
(wide bright beam)and HL 500II (best brightness/weight ratio). I power
them with NiMh rechargeable batteries, and for that you need an
"intelligent" battery charger. I am sure other brands of halogen lamps
will do as well.
If you can't afford it all at once, I would recommend to buy one good
halogen lamp + two sets of top quality batteries + battery charger this
year. And a dynohub next year.
The LED's are perfect for rear light. It will make you safer - and make
you feel safer - to carry a good rear light. CatEye's TL-LD 1000 or
TL-LD600 are both very bright - but they are not cheap.

Ivar

Schorschi said:

Hi there,

I'm a regular bike commuter in Clearwater, FL and am looking for a good
headlight with which I can see (not just be seen). Currently, I'm using
a couple of skimpy LED lights.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Georg

The 5W LEDs do not have a very long life, and are very expensive to
replace. I'd avoid the DiNotte on that basis.

The LED headlights are NOT suitable for the kinds of speeds you are
talking about.

If you insist on internal batteries, look at the following light:

"http://www.swps.com/streamlight-strion-rechargeable.html"

I use on on my folding bicycle, with a Two-Fish Cyclopblock
("http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=&subcategory=&sku=3203&brand="😉.

It is amazingly bright for such a small light, and it can be changed
from spot to flood by twisting the head.

It's the only extremely bright, small flashlight with Li-Ion, versus
NiMH batteries. Upside is longer battery life in a smaller package, but
the downside is much more expensive spare batteries.

For a real bicycle light, unfortunately the higher power self-contained
lights have been dropped from the market. The best still available is
from Planet Bike, http://bicyclesource.us/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2674

You're really limiting yourself with the requirement that the batteries
be inside the light, though I understand the desirablilty of this.

You might want one LED light for the areas that are well-lit, and then
use the Streamlight Strion in the darker areas.

SMS said:

The 5W LEDs do not have a very long life, and are very expensive to
replace. I'd avoid the DiNotte on that basis.

The LED headlights are NOT suitable for the kinds of speeds you are
talking about.

If you insist on internal batteries, look at the following light:

"http://www.swps.com/streamlight-strion-rechargeable.html"

Sorry to follow-up on my own post, but the specs on the Strion are at:

"http://streamlight.com/strion_spec.htm"

Schorschi said:

What I'm looking for is this: - Need to be able to see
obstacles (rocks, broken glass, roadkill, ...) ahead of me for
speeds of 20-22 mph. OK, did they talk to you in driver's ed
about driving the appropriate speed for conditions? When it's
dark, you need to slow down some because you can't see as well.
That's true in a car as well as on a bike. - Can't justify to
spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and Halogen lights.
If you want to be going faster than 20 mph in the conditions you
cite, then you will need to look at these very seriously. Self
contained battery lights will likely not meet the need. - Want
to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible. There are two options. One is a high powered
battery system with a 10W or better lamp. The other option is a
generator with a Lumotec or Lumotec Oval lamp with a 3W bulb.
While that sounds wimpy by comparison, IME the Lumotec lamps are
the equivalent of a 10W NightRider in terms of practical
visibility. I use a Schmidt hub generator as they are the most
efficient generator available, and I like to do long night rides.
I've narrowed my search down to the Vega from Light & Motion, but
I'm not sure if it's suitable for my needs. My question is, does
this light reach far enough ahead of me to leave me enough
reaction time to avoid obstacles on the shoulder? If it does,
will I be able to see the obstacle when it's just in front of me,
or is the Vega's beam focused that much that I will be blind to
anything outside the light's focus? That's the norm with LED
lights. They tend to be very tightly focused. That said, the
L&M VEga is highly regarded and seems like it would be your best
bet in a self-contained setup.

mark said:

Have you considered a hub dynamo or a sidewall generator lighting system? A
good hub dynamo system would meet your performance requirements for about
$250 (Shimano DH-3N71, Busch & Muller Lumotec halogen light, new rim,
spokes, labor to build wheel). There are cheaper systems that offer more
drag, more weight, less light output and shorter generator life, as well as
much more expensive systems that offer less drag, less weight, longer system
life and slightly more light output. I've been using the system I just
described, it seems to meet your requirements while barely meeting your
price limit.

He wanted to keep it around $150, not $300.

There is only one choice for self-contained, 60 minute run time, bright
enough for 20 mph, and under $150.

If he gives up "self-contained" he could put together a system for under
$75, that would provide better far illumination than any self-contained
light or dynamo powered light. I.e.:

Optronics QH-7CC pair $16
2 MR16 Lamps, 1 10W, 1 20W $10
43WH or 60WH SLA battery $11
"Smart" Charger $13
Wire, switch, mounting hardware $15

There is no way that the Lumotec 3W headlamp is sufficient for the
speeds that the original poster is contemplating in areas without any
other lighting. For a dynamo based system he's really looking at the
Dymotec 12 volt/6W dynamo. For lower speeds, the hub dynamo with the
Lumotec would be fine, other than the price, though in the scheme of
things, $200 is not all that much for something used every day.

On Sat, 26 Nov 2005 13:53:06 -0800, SMS <[email hidden]>
wrote:

[---]

Quoted message said:

There is no way that the Lumotec 3W headlamp is sufficient for the
speeds that the original poster is contemplating in areas without any
other lighting.

I have to agree - I have one, and although it is fine in the city, I
had to supplement it with external battery-driven halogen lamps for
riding safely at speed though woodland and forest.

Schorschi said:

- Need to be able to see obstacles (rocks, broken glass, roadkill, ...)
ahead of me for speeds of 20-22 mph.
- Can't justify to spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and
Halogen lights.
- Want to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible.
- Commute is 50-60 minutes one way.

Here's a batteryless setup using four Luxeon LEDs with a standard
3 watt generator:
http://www.zefox.net/~bob/bicycle/
The focus is less good than a halogen setup, but the total
amount of light is substantially greater. On balance it's
an improvement.

At the speeds you ride an eight-LED setup is not out of the
question, a bypass switch could be used for low-speed riding.
Drop a note if you're curious about details. I don't ride fast
enough to use such refinements 8-)

A brimmed hat or glasses with a dark upper zone help a lot to
cope with car and street lights; I don't think it's practical
to put enough watts on a bicycle to compete with them..

bob prohaska

Schorschi said:

I also thought about perhaps getting two Vegas, one to point close, one
farther away ahead.

Then I've come across the DiNotte Ultralight, which seems to be similar
to the Vega, though with a more spread beam, but I'm not sure if it's
effectively brighter than the Vega.

According to what I have read, the diNotte is brighter. I have one, and
it certainly is bright enough for your needs. My commute is similar (but
shorter) to yours, and this light does the job.

Quoted message said:

Also, one DiNotte is about as expensive as two Vegas.

Not really. The Vega is $150, and the diNotte is $210. But the
integrated battery of the Vega means no swapping batteries out, and SOL if
it dies. I have a $300 light system that is worthless now because the
battery is no longer available.

Quoted message said:

So, can these LEDs light my path far enough ahead of me or can this only
be achieved with the high-powered lights?

I don't know about the Vega, but the DiNotte is plenty bright enough.

--

David L. Johnson

__o | Accept risk. Accept responsibility. Put a lawyer out of
_`\(,_ | business.
(_)/ (_) |

SMS said:

There is no way that the Lumotec 3W headlamp is sufficient for
the speeds that the original poster is contemplating in areas
without any other lighting. Au contraire, I do this quite
regularly. I have descended at 40 mph in the middle of the
night on not very familiar roads and was quite comfortable with
how much I could see. I have ridden literally all night long on
brevets with the SON/Lumotec Oval setup and have found no
problems with seeing adequately while going 20 mph and more.
The setup is actually somewhat less effective on city streets
with streetlights and oncoming traffic, which prevent good dark
adaptation, as the Lumotec can't compete wth the glare.
Don't forget that the 3W rating is a measure of power
consumption, not of light output. Bicycle headlight makers go
out of their way to be confusing on the issue of light output,
rating their lights in watts, lux, lumens, candlepower, candela,
rabbit farts and whatnot.

A good photo comparison is http://eddys.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=493
which shows photos of various lights.
I use the Cateye HL El-300 with 5 LEDs, US$35 110 hours on 4 AA
batteries.
http://www.cateye.com/en/products/viewProduct.php?modelId=19&catId=7&subCatId=2

Schorschi said:

Hi there,

I'm a regular bike commuter in Clearwater, FL and am looking for a good
headlight with which I can see (not just be seen). Currently, I'm using
a couple of skimpy LED lights.

I'm riding along mostly lit roads with medium to heavy car traffic.
There are stretches of road that are unlit. So, there is a lot of
ambient light available most of the way, but with dark stretches in
between street lights and lots of changes from bright to dark due to
cars passing me on the completely unlit stretches.

What I'm looking for is this:

- Need to be able to see obstacles (rocks, broken glass, roadkill, ...)
ahead of me for speeds of 20-22 mph.
- Can't justify to spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and
Halogen lights.
- Want to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible.
- Commute is 50-60 minutes one way.

I've narrowed my search down to the Vega from Light & Motion, but I'm
not sure if it's suitable for my needs. My question is, does this light
reach far enough ahead of me to leave me enough reaction time to avoid
obstacles on the shoulder? If it does, will I be able to see the
obstacle when it's just in front of me, or is the Vega's beam focused
that much that I will be blind to anything outside the light's focus?

I also thought about perhaps getting two Vegas, one to point close, one
farther away ahead.

Then I've come across the DiNotte Ultralight, which seems to be similar
to the Vega, though with a more spread beam, but I'm not sure if it's
effectively brighter than the Vega.

Also, one DiNotte is about as expensive as two Vegas.

So, can these LEDs light my path far enough ahead of me or can this
only be achieved with the high-powered lights?

Georg

David L. Johnson said:

On Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:58:50 -0800, Schorschi wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I also thought about perhaps getting two Vegas, one to point close, one
farther away ahead.

Not a bad way to go, but for that kind of money you could have a much
brighter, wider coverage, single light system -- or even a dual lamp head.
I'd go for an L&M halogen with the focusable head, and lightweight Li-ion
battery.

Quoted message said:

The Vega is $150, and the diNotte is $210. But the integrated battery
of the Vega means no swapping batteries out, and SOL if it dies.

The Vega is on sale right now at www.beyondbikes.com, for like $109. I may
pick one up myself. It has a two year warranty, which is partly you're
paying for with the high price. If the battery fails, just send it in and
they'll fix it. Even after that, there's no magic to replacing batteries
if you can operate a soldering iron.

Quoted message said:

I have a $300 light system that is worthless now because the battery is
no longer available.

What kind of light is this? You can always get another battery. You can
either build one yourself, or have it done for you. There are also people
selling batteries on eBay with adaptor plugs for all the major bike light
brands.

If you don't want to bother with this, you should have no trouble selling
the rest of the system to someone who will.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So, can these LEDs light my path far enough ahead of me or can this
only be achieved with the high-powered lights?

The Vega should be great for normal commuter-type riding. It looks like
it's probably brighter than most 10W halogens, but maybe with a narrower
beam.

For all-out riding I would prefer the L&M halogen lamps, especially the
focusable ones. But the Vega wins for convenience.

Either way, L&M makes great stuff.

Quoted message said:

I don't know about the Vega, but the DiNotte is plenty bright enough.

The DiNotte is probably brighter, with a 5W LED (the only one on
the market so far) compared to the Vega's 3-4W. I have no idea about the
beam pattern though.

Ask me again in a few days. I may indeed order one of those Vegas, or
cobble together some other thing. Gotta do something -- the ol' Micro
isn't cutting it. I rode home tonight in front of a friend with a 10W
halogen, so I could see where I was going!

Matt O.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I really appreciate the various
suggestions.

Below, a summary of responses/suggestions and my take on them:

- The DiNotte seems to be the brightest of the LED lights currently
available. However, the high price of ~$200 and a supposedly limited
life expectancy don't win me over. Besides, it uses an external battery
pack.

- [email hidden] suggested a couple of dynamo driven solutions
(hub or sidewall). Sidewall is out of the question for me. Been there,
done that as a teenager. Hub dynamo sounds interesting, however, I
dread two things: cables (which I was trying to avoid) and the work
involved to change it over. The manufacturer of the Schmidt system even
recommends double wiring between the front and rear light for a more
reliable connection, i.e. not use the bike frame as a conductor.
Besides, wouldn't I need double-wiring for an aluminum bike anyway?
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com)

- [email hidden] suggested a very bright and compact flash
light (STRION) fastened to the handlebars with a specialized velcro
strap. However, this one is rated putting out 80 vs. 85 lumens that the
Vega produces. So, I'm not sure what the benefit would be, other than
price. I question the stability of such a solution too and it would
probably be somewhat bulky on the handlebars.
(http://streamlight.com/strion_spec.htm,
http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=&subcategory=&sku=3203&brand=)

- He also suggested the Planet Bike 5000XR light, but I couldn't find
out if that's brighter than the Vega. Can one convert 5000 candlepower
into lumen? (http://bicyclesource.us/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2674)

- A few people suggested do-it-yourself solutions, but I don't really
want to put up with that. I was looking for an out-of-the-box light.

- A helpful light comparison page was pointed out by
[email hidden] (http://eddys.com/site/page.cfm?PageID=493),
which shows photographed wall reflections of a few bicycle lights.
According to this, the Cateye HL El-300 he uses, is clearly inferior to
the Light & Motion Vega though. It is less bright and has a much more
focused beam than the Vega.

So, here's what I'll do:

Despite a warning from [email hidden] that the Vega I had
favored from the beginning probably wouldn't be suitable for speeds of
20-22mph, I will give it a shot and get two of these.

The Vega is currently available for only $104 from beyondbikes.com with
coupon code THANX (only until this Monday). Given this bargain, I'm
figuring, if these really won't work for me, I should be able to resell
them for at least what I paid for them.

I plan on posting my experiences with the two Vegas, once received and
tested.

Georg

Schorschi said:

- Can't justify to spend $300 or more for the high-powered HID and
Halogen lights.

Halogen needn't be that expensive.....

eg: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7199221030

Quoted message said:

- Want to avoid lighting systems with external batteries if at all
possible.

I kow it's some extra trouble but a separate battery keeps costs down and
versatility high, while providing loads of power.

~PB

"Schorschi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks everyone for your replies. I really appreciate the various
suggestions.

Below, a summary of responses/suggestions and my take on them:

- The DiNotte seems to be the brightest of the LED lights currently
available. However, the high price of ~$200 and a supposedly limited
life expectancy don't win me over. Besides, it uses an external battery
pack.

DiNotte claims a life expectancy of thousands of hours. I don't know about
you, but thousands of hours of nighttime riding = years of riding for me.
The external battery pack is actually a pretty neat design, as it allows a
very small footprint for the light. Mounting the battery pack under the stem
gets it out of the way. The actual light is about the size of a roll of Life
Savers.

"Schorschi" wrote ...

Quoted message said:

- [email hidden] suggested a couple of dynamo driven solutions
(hub or sidewall). Sidewall is out of the question for me. Been there,
done that as a teenager. Hub dynamo sounds interesting, however, I
dread two things: cables (which I was trying to avoid) and the work
involved to change it over. The manufacturer of the Schmidt system even
recommends double wiring between the front and rear light for a more
reliable connection, i.e. not use the bike frame as a conductor.
Besides, wouldn't I need double-wiring for an aluminum bike anyway?
(http://www.peterwhitecycles.com)

I run a battery powered LED taillight (several, actually), so wiring is
greatly simplified. My headlight is mounted at the fork crown, so wiring is
a matter of wrapping a pair of wires around a fork blade between the hub and
the light, and (maybe) tidying things up with a few zip ties. Lithium AA
cells will last long enough powering an LED taillight that there's not much
point in wiring up a dynamo to a taillight. Maybe if I had a dedicated year
round commuter instead of alternating between a winter and summer bike I
would run the taillight off of a dynamo.

Initial setup wasn't too bad for me, I enjoy building my own wheels on the
rare occasions that I get to do so.
--
mark

Schorschi said:

- [email hidden] suggested a very bright and compact flash
light (STRION) fastened to the handlebars with a specialized velcro
strap. However, this one is rated putting out 80 vs. 85 lumens that the
Vega produces. So, I'm not sure what the benefit would be, other than
price. I question the stability of such a solution too and it would
probably be somewhat bulky on the handlebars.

This light is very small, the picture of it doesn't give a sense of the
size, but it is only 5.3" long.

Don't go just by lumens. The problem with the LED lights is that the
light from the LED isn't able to be focused into as usable a beam as
that from an incandescent bulb.

Quoted message said:

(http://streamlight.com/strion_spec.htm,
http://www.nashbar.com/profile_moreimages.cfm?category=&subcategory=&sku=3203&brand=)

- He also suggested the Planet Bike 5000XR light, but I couldn't find
out if that's brighter than the Vega. Can one convert 5000 candlepower
into lumen? (http://bicyclesource.us/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2674)

Again, don't go just by lumens, you have to look at the beam pattern.
Even the 3W dynamo lights are going to be brighter, with a better beam,
than the Vega. Of course you could always power the dynamo lights with a
battery if desired.

I'm sure the Vega will be fine, but you're pushing it at 20mph with 3W
LED lights. Read the review at
"http://www.beyondbikes.com/BB/ItemDesc.asp?IC=AC%2DLIG%2DVega"

"Throws a good foacused light beam, though not to far ahead."

That review really states the problem with LED lights, they simply
aren't suitable for faster riding because the beam doesn't project far
enough, you'll be outrunning your lights.

I'd get one Vega and one Strion, this would give you the best of both
worlds.