What happened? Campy Veloce vs. Shamino 105

[taniwha]

What do you want to know?

For the average rider, Shimano 105, Ultegra & Dura Ace are great ... particularly, if you are a Flatlander and/or your hills are less than a quarter mile long ...

How is that so? Does the groupset shudder to pieces after 400metres of incline? Does it matter how steep that incline is?

 

[alfeng]

I guess you can't be constructive. Do you think your tack is really helping your position?

I know my ride with Shimano was an N=1 sampling. You were the one that said, "...until you use some STI shifters...ad hominem....ad hominem...", so I reported my experience. I didn't say or imply that it was statistically significant. I rode Shimano long enough that day to understand it shifted well, but the ergonomics didn't suit me. Also, I really missed the mechanical feel of Campy shifting.

Your personal attacks are unlikely to improve whatever credibility you have. People have fairly raised questions. You reply with insults. What exactly do you think you're offering in this thread?

REALLY? That's your reply?

Do you think that heckling is a proper way to address issues?

Do you know that your frequent heckling makes you perhaps the rudest individual in this Forum?

Or, are you so deluded that you think that your heckling is a polite way to addess an opinion which challenges your world view?

For you to lament someone not being willing to deal with your unnecessarily hostile tone & **** spewing (a paraphrase of something you once said) as an attack on yourself borders on the ludicrous.

Do you ever read what YOU write?

Again, go for three rides up to the summit of Mt. Lemmon on an STI equipped bike and stop making excuses for your earlier declarations.

 

[alienator]

How is that so? Does the groupset shudder to pieces after 400metres of incline? Does it matter how steep that incline is?

Yes. A hidden feature of Shimano groups is the Incline Length Sensor, craftily hidden in the front derailleur. Once the sensor detects that you've gone 500 m uphill, a light flashes to warn the rider to bypass the programmed front derailleur fubar shift, if so desired, by pressing the button within 15 seconds of the flashing light coming on. Unfortunately, the button and the flashing light are both hidden in the front derailleur, so the rider can't see 'em. That's what "the look''--you know, the look Armstrong gave Ulrich on that climb--was all about: Armstrong was warning Ulrich that Ulrich's light flashing and he needed to hit the bypass button. Not pushing the button in time cost Ulrich Le Tour.

 

[alfeng]

How is that so? Does the groupset shudder to pieces after 400metres of incline? Does it matter how steep that incline is?

I'm sorry to say, but a 400 meter (long) incline is merely a bump in the road ...

As far as the groupset shuddering to pieces, of course not ...

Depending on the incline, you may find that the chain does not engage the next sprocket over as smoothly/quickly when you are down shifting as it does if you are on the Flats when you use Shimano's currently available STI shifters.

The chain will not make any noise if the transition between cogs is smooth ... if you are hearing any noise from the chain when moving to a larger cog OR there is any momentary hesitation (which may manifest itself as chain noise), then THAT is what 'I' am talking about when I refer to the Shimano shifters balking at times.

N.B. According to those who have marveled after using the Shimano Di2, the shifting has been described as precise, quick, smooth, etc. -- a description which is applicable to the Campagnolo shifters (and, supposedly, the SRAM rear shifter) ...

Would there be anything for those who have waxed eloquently about the Di2 (in other threads this Forum & by so-called "professional" reviewers) if the mechanical Shimano STI shifters were equally capable?

Would there be any reason for a Shimano aficionado to pay a significant premium for a Di2 drivetrain other than conspicuous consumption if the current, mechanical Shimano shifters were equally capable?

Think about it.

 

[taniwha]

Yes. A hidden feature of Shimano groups is the Incline Length Sensor, craftily hidden in the front derailleur. Once the sensor detects that you've gone 500 m uphill, a light flashes to warn the rider to bypass the programmed front derailleur fubar shift, if so desired, by pressing the button within 15 seconds of the flashing light coming on. Unfortunately, the button and the flashing light are both hidden in the front derailleur, so the rider can't see 'em. That's what "the look''--you know, the look Armstrong gave Ulrich on that climb--was all about: Armstrong was warning Ulrich that Ulrich's light flashing and he needed to hit the bypass button. Not pushing the button in time cost Ulrich Le Tour.

Utter nonsense! Ullrich was riding campy at the time and the look was because Armstrong, who was on shimano, was trying to make sure that Ullrich hadn't seen his own flashing warning light.

 

[taniwha]

I'm sorry to say, but a 400 meter (long) incline is merely a bump in the road ...

As far as the groupset shuddering to pieces, of course not ...

Depending on the incline, you may find that the chain does not engage the next sprocket over as smoothly/quickly when you are down shifting as it does if you are on the Flats when you use Shimano's currently available STI shifters.

The chain will not make any noise if the transition between cogs is smooth ... if you are hearing any noise from the chain when moving to a larger cog OR there is any momentary hesitation (which may manifest itself as chain noise), then THAT is what 'I' am talking about when I refer to the Shimano shifters balking at times.

First off, a 400 metre long incline may be a bump in the road, but most of the bergs in the Tour of Flanders are around that length. I don't think they can be dismissed as mere bumps in the road.

As for smooth shifting, that is as reliant on accurate alignment of gears, rear drop-out, rear mech, clean cables, etc as the shift mechanism. Typically chain noise is a result of a mis-aligned rear mech, but can also be attributed to a dirty, worn or dry chain.

Lastly shifting under load, isn't just the preserve of inclines, racing on the flat can present the same challenges to a drive train.

 

[alienator]

Utter nonsense! Ullrich was riding campy at the time and the look was because Armstrong, who was on shimano, was trying to make sure that Ullrich hadn't seen his own flashing warning light.

Technically, yes, but the reality is that Armstrong's powers convinced Ullrich that he, Ullrich, was actually riding Shimano. You see, at an early age Armstrong realized he had some superhuman powers, and from that early age up to and including now, Armstrong modeled his life after his idol, another super hero, Jayna, from the Wonder Twins:

He said, in an interview, that when he competes at Kona, next year, he's going to wear purple bridal gloves and a smart, orchid colored blouse to honor Jayna.

 

[randochap]

Why non-QS? I have both. The QS requires much less cable pull, thus less wrist motion. Over the long haul it makes a big difference in wrist fatigue.

 

[alfeng]

Why non-QS? I have both. The QS requires much less cable pull, thus less wrist motion. Over the long haul it makes a big difference in wrist fatigue.

The Xenon-based, non-ERGO, QS shifters ARE GOOD and seemed to work well on the one quick test I ran with a pair with a double crank & Shimano derailleurs.

But, I was suggesting a mismatch of the Campagnolo shifters with non-Campagnolo derailleurs ...

I know that the LEFT non-QS shifter can be used with ANY front derailleur and ANY crankset.

While I'm pretty sure that a LEFT QS shifter can be used with many front derailleurs and any DOUBLE crankset, I'm not sure what the limitations are ...

And, because I was-and-am suggesting a non-authorized mating of 10-speed Campagnolo shifters with Shimano derailleurs, I feel it is better to recommend the shifters which I know will work vs. the ones which may-or-may-not work.