What does your (day) rucksack weigh

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

Yes that's about what mine weighs with tent and food for 5 days. Oh sorry you said daysac. Well then
congratulations, asking questions like that is the first step towards admitting you have an
unnecessary weight addiction. Now take a deep breath and throw away all that camera gear ;-)

Bernard Hill said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

No - it's about double what I carry!

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 117
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

That is seriously heavy for a day in the hills. what are you carrying to amass so much?.....I would
be less than half that!

Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

I'd say it is a bit over the top. The last time I weighed my rucksack it was 14 kilos (about 31
pounds) for a 3 day bothy trip. That included stove, fuel, thermarest, sleeping bag, bivvy bag, 2
litres of water, MSR water filter, change of clothing, washing stuff, camera equipment, loads of
food, etc. Oh yeah, 2 cans of cider, 1 small bottle of wine and a hip flask of whisky too! I'm
aiming to manage a 5 day camping trip with a tent extra food, booze and clothing and weigh in at 44
pounds at most.

What do you carry? Try leaving the deckchair behind maybe? :-)

Cheers, Jiffy

Bernard Hill said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

I don't know how much camera gear you took, but for the conditions you mention, yes, I'd say it is
reasonable. You could probably go lighter, but that depends on how much of a risk you want to take
regarding weather conditions.

Of course, travelling lighter would mean easier walking, less fatigue and less risk of having to
spend the night on the hill. You just have to weigh confidence vs. risk in my opinion.

I've often carried a weight like that in winter conditions, I've also travelled a lot lighter, it
all depends on conditions. I'm sure I carried that much on a few days during my October Project, but
that of course was mainly camera gear! :-)

Paul
--
The October Project 2003
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

AndyP said:

Yes that's about what mine weighs with tent and food for 5 days.

Rubbish, just the food and spare clothing could weigh that much. I've often wondered about these
people who claim to travel ultralight. After looking at some sites listing ultralight stuff I
realised that most who claim to be carry such tiny weights don't include the weight of food or
clothes or both, which can make a significant difference. Many also stop at civilisation regularly
so that they don't have to carry much food at any one time. They also tend to be "summer" gear
lists when you can happily survive with minimal gear, but aren't really suitable for the kind of
weather we get in the darker half of the year.

If I can butt in here's some figures from my walks. For an 11 day crossing of the Highlands in May -
when the weather can still be pretty cold and stormy - the total weight of my gear, including
footwear, clothes worn and camera gear (5lbs) was 27.5lbs. That's 22.5lbs without camera gear. I set
off with 6 days food weighing 12lbs so my total load was 39.5lbs the first day out. As 6lbs was worn
or carried (footwear, clothes, trekking poles, camera) the pack weighed 33.5lbs at the start, the
heaviest for the whole trip.

I did try an overnight summer trip using ultralight gear, including a
14.25 oz -pack. The total load, including 3lbs of food and 3.25lbs of camera gear, was 22.5lbs. The
pack itself weighed 15.25lbs. The light load was very nice but I'd rather have a bit more
substantial gear for longer trips.

In winter with ice axe, crampons, warmer clothing and sleeping bag my basic load - without food - is
around 30lbs.

Quoted message said:

I've often tried to travel light, and although my sleeping bag isn't the lightest on the planet,
most of the rest of my gear is pretty damn light now. I've sometimes been impressed by the light
weight of my essential gear, but after adding a few days worth of food and sufficient spare
clothing for the conditions I expect to encounter, I always end up disappointed at the weight of
the final result.

Maybe you carry too much spare clothing? I never carry any clothing that can't be worn together. The
only spare clothing I carry is a second pair of socks.

Quoted message said:

I just don't see how these claims are possible, not without leaving behind numerous useful and
important items of gear. If you want to starve yourself on a few portions of tasteless dried muck,
spend a lot of the time shivering inside a flimsy tent that's likely to blow away with the
slightest gust of wind and take no photos to remind you of the experience, be my guest. I prefer to
*enjoy* myself when I go out. That is the point isn't it?

Some people find carrying a heavy pack spoils the enjoyment. I found the
15.5lb load was great when walking but prolonged camping in bad weather would have been more
difficult though not impossible. The 27.5lb load (without food) was perfectly comfortable for a
crossing of the Highlands that included much rain and strong winds.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well then congratulations, asking questions like that is the first step towards admitting you
have an unnecessary weight addiction.

Another smug comment from someone who travels impossibly light, or at least who claims to. Have you
ever tried weighing your rucksack with all your gear, food and spare clothing in it before you
leave? Or do you just "theorise" how much it weighs by adding up the weights of the main items?

Quoted message said:

Now take a deep breath and throw away all that camera gear ;-)

What would be the point of that? Might as well just stay at home.

That's not applicable to everyone! Most people only carry a light compact camera. I carry a fair bit
more - it's my work - but not, I think, as much as you.

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

No idea Bernard, but at the moment I'm out for the day with about
2/3 of the weight I carried last winter. There is a school of thought that says if you carry
everything on your back you'll undoubtedly need it as you'll be slowed down to such an extent you
will require more food, water, etc. I'll weigh mine this weekend.

KRO

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard Hill said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

No - it's about double what I carry!

So how do you cut down? Most of my weight is clothes and food and water.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

Yes that's about what mine weighs with tent and food for 5 days. Oh sorry you said daysac. Well
then congratulations, asking questions like that is the first step towards admitting you have an
unnecessary weight addiction. Now take a deep breath and throw away all that camera gear ;-)

One small camera was in that weight. But being digital the batteries are heavy. Oh yes, and a spare
set of batteries :-)

The contents:

Fleece Waterproof top and trousers 2 litres water lunch including hot soup Survival bag first aid
kit (small!) emergency food (3 Mars bars) Swiss army knife torch other light things such as compass
and whistle

Most of the items are related to accidents, at this time of the year you can die out there with a
simple thing like a twisted ankle.

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I just don't see how these claims are possible, not without leaving behind numerous useful and
important items of gear. If you want to starve yourself on a few portions of tasteless dried muck,
spend a lot of the time shivering inside a flimsy tent that's likely to blow away with the
slightest gust of wind and take no photos to remind you of the experience, be my guest. I prefer to
*enjoy* myself when I go out. That is the point isn't it?

Paul, when you camp you have oft stated that you march in, set up and stay there. That's very
different from walking on to a new site each day and affects the attitude to kit considerably.

Yes, I do take tasteless dried muck. It actually tastes quite a bit better when back-packing. No
I don't take camera equipment. Though it may seem somewhat amazing that a human being could be
so strange, photography doesn't really interest me - I basically take pictures of family and
friends and they're probably not with me when backpacking. If I want atmospheric landscapes I
visit your website.

Having said all that I have to agree that I've never got down to 22lbs: I aim for 30, but I do take
a trangia rather than gas and my tent is (or rather was - it has now given out) overheavy.

--
Michael Farthing cyclades Software House

Bernard Hill said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

It rather depends what you like to do. Elite mountain marathon competitors have about half that for
a weekend with camping and food included[1], but for them moving as fast as possible is all part of
the game. On nice days in summer I *have* gone out with just a bumbag with a little food, suncream
and a spare set of thermals, and depending where and when you walk that can be quite enough. Bottom
line is are you comfortable (physically and psychologically). Horses == Courses, and everyone draws
their lines in different places, and often on different days. Sometimes I like to go light,
sometimes I take the kitchen sink for the same sort of day.

Pete.

[1] tent and stove/fuel between two, food full waterproofs, headtorch fleece or equivalent are
*obligatory* and there are kit inspections for many finishers.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Bernard Hill said:

The contents:

Fleece Waterproof top and trousers 2 litres water lunch including hot soup Survival bag first aid
kit (small!) emergency food (3 Mars bars) Swiss army knife torch other light things such as
compass and whistle

Most of the items are related to accidents, at this time of the year you can die out there with a
simple thing like a twisted ankle.

I'd certainly leave out half the water. I'd be tempted to leave it all out if I was doing a walk
that I knew in advance would cross enough becks etc.

!! I'm certainly not drinking water which is below the sheep line.

Perhaps you didn't see the article in Trail?

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Rooney <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

John Laird said:

Paul Rooney said:

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:50:57 +0000, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> wrote:

>The contents:
>
>2 litres water

I'd certainly leave out half the water. I'd be tempted to leave it all out if I was doing a walk
that I knew in advance would cross enough becks etc.

And this from the man who reckons 5l/day is not excessive ;-)

Yes - that's drinking it, not carrying it!

Quoted message said:

Out of interest, are you very careful where you drink from, use puritabs or the like, or plain
don't worry ? I always carry 2l. Rarely finish it, but that doesn't concern me. My own weight can
fluctuate far more than 1kg in a week.

Bernard's sack seems to weigh a lot considering what's in it. Maybe mine does too - never thought
to stand on any scales.

I've never used any purifier. I pick my drinking place with a bit of care, but I'm not all that
fussy. Fast flowing, not below human habitation, and no obvious dead sheep. I've never yet had
any problem.

It's not the dead ones I worry about. They're fairly rare. It's what the live ones do all day
every day...

(Why avoid human habitation but not sheep habitation?)

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What don't you carry? Or what aren't you weighing properly? Is the force of gravity heavier in
South Wales? In over 20 years of backpacking I've never been able to get close to the kind of
figures boasted about here, and it's not for lack of spending money on lightweight gear either.

There is no truth in the rumour that you were 5 ft 9 ins before you started backbacking.
:-)
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

Bernard Hill said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

About the same as mine. However I'll typically have two camera bodies and three prime lenses.

I leave out tripod weight as that doesn't fit in my backpack.....

Quoted message said:

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

--
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot. The other 42% are made up later on. In Warwick -
looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.

In message <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Chris Townsend said:

If I can butt in here's some figures from my walks. For an 11 day crossing of the Highlands in
May - when the weather can still be pretty cold and stormy - the total weight of my gear,
including footwear, clothes worn and camera gear (5lbs) was 27.5lbs. That's
22.5lbs without camera gear. I set off with 6 days food weighing 12lbs so my total load was
39.5lbs the first day out.

Not that different to me, mine typically weighs 45lbs during the winter half of the year, less in
the summer half.

Quoted message said:

As 6lbs was worn or carried (footwear, clothes, trekking poles, camera) the pack weighed 33.5lbs
at the start, the heaviest for the whole trip.

I did try an overnight summer trip using ultralight gear, including a
14.25 oz -pack. The total load, including 3lbs of food and 3.25lbs of camera gear, was 22.5lbs.
The pack itself weighed 15.25lbs. The light load was very nice but I'd rather have a bit more
substantial gear for longer trips.

In winter with ice axe, crampons, warmer clothing and sleeping bag my basic load - without food -
is around 30lbs.

Thanks for those figures. I suspect you have better lightweight equipment than me.

Lighter certainly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe you carry too much spare clothing?

Quite probably, but this is partially because I don't have a good down bag and partially because I
tend to to a lot of early morning or late evening photography which often requires standing around
in the cold for a long time, thus I need more than I would if I was moving.

I do that too. I always carry a warm top anyway for rest stops and in camp. This is usually a
synthetic filled top weighing 300-500 grams in from October to May. In summer it's a
lightweight fleece.

A good down bag certainly saves a great deal of weight, and not just in clothing. My summer bag
weighs 1lb.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I never carry any clothing that can't be worn together.

Neither do I, but I do wear quite a lot when I'm standing around in the cold. Too hot to wear when
walking though, so it has to go in the sack.

Most of my clothing goes in the pack much of the time. It's easy to keep warm while moving.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Some people find carrying a heavy pack spoils the enjoyment.

For walking yes, but not for the actual camping. It really depends on how much time you spend doing
each. If you're predominantly walking then light weight is vital, but if a lot of time is spent at
camp then heavier weight is acceptable. The former is better suited for summer trips, the latter
for winter.

True. I spend most of my time walking. In winter more time is spent in camp of course and I carry a
warmer sleeping bag and clothing than in summer.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I found the
22.5lb load was great when walking but prolonged camping in bad weather would have been more
difficult though not impossible.

Exactly.

That was an ultralight load though. If I'd swapped the tarp for a tent, which would have added
around 3.5lbs, I could have coped happily in bad weather. Tarps are great in forests even in rain
and fine in mountain areas where wind is rare but for British hill camping they have limitations.
I've used one for two months in Arizona and on several two to five week trips in the High Sierra in
California but here I prefer a tent.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

That's not applicable to everyone! Most people only carry a light compact camera. I carry a fair
bit more - it's my work - but not, I think, as much as you.

The lightest kit that I used to take was 5-6 pounds, including a small tripod, but for shorter base
camping trips I might carry 10 pounds or more. Now however I have a digital camera to add to that
(which isn't that light taking into account the additional lens converters) plus a panoramic camera
that weighs 2 pounds so I really can't go out with less than 10 pounds of camera gear at the
moment. This may change when I get a pro quality digital SLR.

I used to carry 10lbs of camera gear - two Nikon SLRs plus lenses plus lightweight tripod. For the
last 3 years though I've used a Canon EOS 300 SLR and a Ricoh GR1s compact and have kept the weight
to 5lbs or less. I still take the tripod of course. On the Arizona Trail I also had a digital
camera - 2.3mp Ricoh RDC-5000. I still carry this when weight isn't an issue. When I get a digital
SLR - which may be the Canon 300D - I'll leave the GR1s behind. The weight of camera gear will
still go up though.

Quoted message said:

By the way, I forgot to mention, I don't count the weight of my camera gear with my camping gear,
so that's 45 pounds without the cameras.

My 39.5lbs included cameras and six days food.

In article <[email hidden]>, Paul Saunders <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

W. D. Grey said:

There is no truth in the rumour that you were 5 ft 9 ins before you started backbacking.
:-)

No, I was 7ft 3ins! ;-)

LOL :-)
--
Bill Grey billboy.co.ukbillboy.co.ukOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, AndyP <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Chris Townsend" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

If I can butt in here's some figures from my walks. For an 11 day crossing of the Highlands in
May - when the weather can still be pretty cold and stormy - the total weight of my gear,
including footwear, clothes worn and camera gear (5lbs) was 27.5lbs. That's 22.5lbs without
camera gear. I set off with 6 days food weighing 12lbs so my total load was 39.5lbs the first day
out. As 6lbs was worn or carried (footwear, clothes, trekking poles, camera) the pack weighed
33.5lbs at the start, the heaviest for the whole trip.

A couple of questions about food...I don't like the hassle of cooking anyway (certainly not in the
rain or with midges) so I don't take a stove but I reckon taking food that doesn't need cooking is
one way of saving weight over a trip lasting a few days. Assuming you're not including water in
that 12lb of food how many kilojoules (or kcal) do you reckon on from the 2lb a day? What kind of
food is it? And how much does your stove and associated cooking equipment weigh to add to that?

The 2lb a day gives me 3500-4000 kcal. A typical days food would be::

4 oz muesli 2 oz dried milk 2 oz sugar 1 oz decaffeinated coffee 2 oz instant hot chocolate 2-3oz
trail mix 8 oz of flapjack/energy/muesli bars
2.5 oz oatcakes (6) 2 oz hard cheese - eaten with oatcakes and melted into pasta 4 oz quick cook
pasta 2 oz packet soups - as flavourings for pasta and as soup

Sometimes I take a complete dried meal instead of the pasta/soup/cheese. A 7oz meal is adequate.
Lighter weight ones have less calories and need cheese adding.

I don't cook breakfast - unless it's so cold hot muesli seems a good idea - just boil water for a
hot drink. I don't cook during the day either. And I don't carry anything that takes longer than 10
minutes simmering to prepare.

My kitchen gear for that trip:

Cartridge stove 3.0 2 8oz butane/propane cartridge 28.0 .9qt. titanium pan 5.0 1 1.5 pint titanium
pan - doubles as mug 3.0 2 Lexan plastic spoons 1.0 Dishcloth .5 Matches/lighter 1.0 1 quart
collapsible water container 1.0 2x 2.5 quart collapsible water containers 2.75

I could probably have left a cartridge at home and bought one during the trip but taking two meant I
knew I had enough fuel for the whole 11 days.

In article <[email hidden]>, Bernard Hill <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I was out a week or two ago and thought I'd weigh my rucksack.

22 pounds. (It felt like more as I humped it onto my back).

Bearing in mind this was a cold and potentially wet day and was for solo walking in remote areas
(but no camping, just lunch) is this reasonable?

It's a lot more than mine (2 lbs waterproofs, 1 lb food, 2 or 3 lbs thermos, plus whatever I pack in
spare clothing). But it gets heavier when I take the jacket (2 lbs) off my torso and sling it over
the rucksack.

My daysac is light enough to carry slung over one shoulder (to improve ventilation so I don't get a
wet back from sweat). Even with gloves, balaclava and all the rest of the cold weather gear I don't
think it'd reach 22 lbs.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley