what date is it today?

Hmmm..

"A modified version, which has smaller wheels and on which the cyclist
faces forward..."

So, just like a normal bike?

"But the Sideways Bike would need amending before riding on the UK
streets because riding the current model would mean the cyclist had his
back to the traffic."

Uh? Don't we all normally cycle with our back to the traffic?

"A left-hand corner, for instance, will be approached with a move to the
right, as it would on a normal bike."

Since when has moving right been normal before a left turn.

Nope - it's definitely April 1st today, so do I claim the prize? :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

p.k. said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6375259.stm

This has been around for a while now, I first saw it in Velovision many
moons ago.

He's never really made more claims for it than it's a bit different and
fun, though here the suggestion that it's more usefully manoeuvrable is
perhaps taking things further than necessary.

As with side-saddle equestrian riding, if it tickles your fancy then why
not?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Paul Boyd said:

"A left-hand corner, for instance, will be approached with a move to the
right, as it would on a normal bike."

Since when has moving right been normal before a left turn.

It is often the safest thing to do when there is other traffic around. If
riding along in the secondary road position, you should look behind, and
move to the right into the primary position before the turn left.
This will help prevent following vehicles from overtaking as you turn.

So moving right before turning left is technically correct, but it should
be done on _any_ bike, not just this contraption.

John B

in message <[email hidden]>, Paul Boyd

('usenet.dont.work@plusnet') said:

"A left-hand corner, for instance, will be approached with a move to the
right, as it would on a normal bike."

Since when has moving right been normal before a left turn.

Jobst Brandt believes that it is. From photographic evidence it appears
that he can ride a bike, so I don't know how he can hold this view; but he
does, most vociferously.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.

In article said:

p.k. said:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6375259.stm

He's never really made more claims for it than it's a bit different and
fun, though here the suggestion that it's more usefully manoeuvrable is
perhaps taking things further than necessary.

As is the "It has been hailed as the first major development in bicycle
design for 150 years", even if it has been toned down slightly from the
200 years he claimed here last time he was desperately hyping the thing.
(150 years still includes the wire spoked wheel, Dunlop's pneumatic tyre,
and the chain driven "safety".)

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Since when has moving right been normal before a left turn.

Jobst Brandt believes that it is. From photographic evidence it appears
that he can ride a bike, so I don't know how he can hold this view; but he
does, most vociferously.

You mean countersteering?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

Anthony

Quoted message said:

As is the "It has been hailed as the first major development in bicycle
design for 150 years", even if it has been toned down slightly from the
200 years he claimed here last time he was desperately hyping the thing.
(150 years still includes the wire spoked wheel, Dunlop's pneumatic tyre,
and the chain driven "safety".)

....Not forgetting the Hyper-bike..http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/bikes/
hyperbike-great-but-were-not-riding-it-230259.php

Regards,

Duncan.

Anthony Jones wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

Since when has moving right been normal before a left turn.

Jobst Brandt believes that it is. From photographic evidence it
appears that he can ride a bike, so I don't know how he can hold this
view; but he does, most vociferously.

You mean countersteering?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

<http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php>

This details an interesting experiment, although it is on a motorcycle
and doesn't apply to dirt bikes. However, the experiment merely shows
that riders don't use 'body steering' to steer a motorbike. There was a
debate on UKC a couple of years ago about whether shifting one's
bodyweight was enough to initiate a turn. The experiment is not designed
to answer that question.

My take on it is that although I use varying amounts of counter steer to
initiate a turn, it isn't /necessary/ to initiate a turn. A good
experiment would be to lock the steering on a bike, and see if you could
choose which way to tople over when you're moving (from the link above,
we learn that both dirt bikes and normal bikes can do this. It would be
a slow way to initiate a turn thobut, and in practice I suspect that on a
bicycle with normal steering it would be very hard not to counter steer.

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote

[snip]

Quoted message said:

Since when has moving right been normal before a left turn.

[snip]

It's certainly pretty normal for lorries, which is why so many
cyclists are being killed at the moment by putting themselves into
the "coffin corner".

"The available data suggest that neither drivers of goods vehicles
nor cyclists involved in these collisions were particularly
inexperienced. Women cyclists were more likely to be involved in
fatal collisions with goods vehicles than they were with vehicles of
other types."

says the TfL report on the subject

Jeremy Parker

Quoted message said:

...Not forgetting the Hyper-bike..http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/bikes/
hyperbike-great-but-were-not-riding-it-230259.php

It occurs to me that air resistance may be less of a problem on Mars or the
moon. However, given the size of the thing, the weight and the pathetic
power output of arms compared to legs, I think it's a joke.

I suppose an advantage could be a drive system that can be operated by
someone wearing a bulky and restrictive space suit, but I'm not sure if it
has that.

The two bikes definately fit into the same category - innovative toys.

Anthony Jones said the following on 19/02/2007 17:06:

Quoted message said:

Try riding no handed, and pushing one side of the bar away with a fingertip
(so that it's completely clear that you can only turn the bars in one
direction).

If you do that, you'll fall off because the bars will turn, but you
won't! I always assumed you steered by sort of falling into the turn.
The handlebars are just to correct the balance. Sort of :-) It's just
one of those things you never think about!

Anyway, I'll be self-consciously steering all the way home after work
tonight!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anthony Jones said the following on 19/02/2007 15:34:

Quoted message said:

You mean countersteering?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteering

My first reaction to that is "what a load of [censored]!".

[snip]

John Forester talks about countersteering, although not by that name,
in his book "Effective Cycling", and tells how to use it in his
"instant turn" emergency evasion technique.

Forester also talks about the hazards of the way bikes steer, and
having something steer your wheel for you. Tram lines, and touching
wheels when following another bike, are the classic cases.

A bike steers completely differently from a car, or, for that matter,
a tricycle. It's pretty funny watching an unsuspecting cyclist try
an adult tricycle for the first time. The best way to ride one
vehicle when only used to the other is, supposedly, to cross your
arms and hold the "wrong" handlebar.

For the same reason its a bad thing to start kids on tricycles or
with training wheels on their bikes. Start them with a scooter
instead.

Jeremy Parker

"Paul Boyd" <usenet.dont.work@plusnet> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Anthony Jones said the following on 19/02/2007 17:06:

Quoted message said:

Try riding no handed, and pushing one side of the bar away with a
fingertip
(so that it's completely clear that you can only turn the bars in one
direction).

If you do that, you'll fall off because the bars will turn, but you won't!
I always assumed you steered by sort of falling into the turn. The
handlebars are just to correct the balance. Sort of :-) It's just one of
those things you never think about!

Yebbut as you know people can ride without using the bars - once you're any
good at riding, the handlebars don't provide input at any normal riding
speed (on road..).

Riding no-handed, you can cope with a knock like Anthony proposed - you
won't fall off, you'll just correct.

cheers,
clive

Paul Boyd said:

Quoted message said:

Try riding no handed, and pushing one side of the bar away with a
fingertip (so that it's completely clear that you can only turn the bars
in one direction).

If you do that, you'll fall off because the bars will turn, but you
won't!

I can do it without falling off, as can everyone else I know who has
tried...

Anthony

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If you do that, you'll fall off because the bars will turn, but you
won't!

I can do it without falling off, as can everyone else I know who has
tried...

You misunderstand. The countersteer simply initiates the leaning of the
bike/rider combo and allows you to turn the wheel without falling off (when
at speed). IF you can lean without counter steer then you'll be able to
turn.

HOWEVER, we use counter steer to keep the bike (and us) in a straight line.
It's very small and a subconcious movement. When I try to lean the bike
into a turn I'm about to make WITHOUT countersteering, I'm probably taking
advantage of a subconcious countersteer done earlier, which slowly shifted
my bodyweight.

If you can lock the steering, ride the bike down the road and choose which
side to topple over on you should be able to initiate a turn without
counter steer. I suspect it would get harder to do the faster you go, and
on a normal bike it would be impossible not to counter steer - we do it
subconsciously just to stay upright! If I'm wrong then a bike with no
steering would be just as easy to pedal down the road.

On 19/02/2007 17:31, Jeremy Parker said,

Quoted message said:

It's certainly pretty normal for lorries, which is why so many
cyclists are being killed at the moment by putting themselves into
the "coffin corner".

The discussion was about bicycles, not lorries.

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

On Feb 19, 5:37 pm, Mark Thompson

pleasegivegenerously@warmmail*_turn_up_the_heat_to_reply*.com said:

Quoted message said:

...Not forgetting the Hyper-bike..http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/bikes/
hyperbike-great-but-were-not-riding-it-230259.php

It occurs to me that air resistance may be less of a problem on
Mars or the moon. However, given the size of the thing, the
weight and the pathetic power output of arms compared to legs, I
think it's a joke.

I suppose an advantage could be a drive system that can be
operated by someone wearing a bulky and restrictive space suit,
but I'm not sure if it has that.

It's hard to ride a conventional bike on the moon because the front
end tends to lift in low gravity conditions. And if NASA insist you
let the air out of your tyres before blast-off that just adds to your
problems. :-)

Quoted message said:

The two bikes definately fit into the same category - innovative
toys.

The hyperbike is not particularly innovative.

--
Dave...

On 19/02/2007 17:48, Anthony Jones said,

Quoted message said:

I can do it without falling off, as can everyone else I know who has
tried...

I just tried it, and as I suspected, when I pushed the right side of the
bar, I felt as if I was going to fall to the right. At speed, if I
wanted to turn left, I leant over to the left, with or without hands on
the bars. I couldn't detect any countersteering at all. At slow
speeds, if I wanted to turn left I turned the bars left.

There must be something in this countersteering malarkey as there seem
to be so many learned references to it, but even when consciously
watching for it and consciously steering my bike, I couldn't detect any.

Avoiding dead badgers is a different issue. To continue in a more or
less straight line, I turn the bars sharply in one direction then the
other. Is that countersteering? To me it's just swerving rather than
turning. This assumes of course that the dead badger leapt out in front
of me without warning :-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

dkahn400 said:

It's hard to ride a conventional bike on the moon because the front
end tends to lift in low gravity conditions.

Try an 8 Freight... on Earth I have to channel my Inner Gorilla to
get the front up a couple of inches!

Quoted message said:

The hyperbike is not particularly innovative.

Oh, I don't know... It must take *real* thinking effort to create
200lb of assorted pipery that manages to miss /quite/ so many items
of a Bleedin' Obvious nature as that... ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/