what are the pros' VO2 max?

shming123 said:

What are the VO2 max's of some of the cycling pros? what numbers are good and excellent?

between about 70 and 93 mL/kg/min. However, it's way more important to know what their power is such as MAP and TT power.

Ric

ric_stern/RST said:

between about 70 and 93 mL/kg/min. However, it's way more important to know what their power is such as MAP and TT power.

Ric

what is MAP?

shming123 said:

what is MAP?

Maximal aerobic power, see http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=powerstern

ric

ric_stern/RST said:

between about 70 and 93 mL/kg/min. However, it's way more important to know what their power is such as MAP and TT power.

Ric

Wouldn't MAP be highly correlated with VO2max anyway? The range of human efficiency while cycling isn't that great. And someone with a high VO2 at a low power would likely be highly trainable? How do you put these numbers in perspective in an athlete talent ID context?

Roadie_scum said:

Wouldn't MAP be highly correlated with VO2max anyway? The range of human efficiency while cycling isn't that great. And someone with a high VO2 at a low power would likely be highly trainable? How do you put these numbers in perspective in an athlete talent ID context?

Yes, MAP is correlated with VO2max, but that does not mean that a high VO2max = a high MAP; just that the two will increase and decrease in a predictable amount based on each other. MAP, in realtion to VO2, is trainable, but not as much as lactate threshold or 40k TT power as a % of MAP.
Depending on your approach, talent ID is based on absolute MAP, power/weight ratios, endurance at MAP, 40k TT-power, power at lactate threshold, peak power and anaerobic work capacity. MAP and 40k TT power are the most highly correleated with road cycling performance, while MAP and peak power/AWC are more important for track cyclists performing shorter events.

Smartt/RST said:

Yes, MAP is correlated with VO2max, but that does not mean that a high VO2max = a high MAP; just that the two will increase and decrease in a predictable amount based on each other. MAP, in realtion to VO2, is trainable, but not as much as lactate threshold or 40k TT power as a % of MAP.
Depending on your approach, talent ID is based on absolute MAP, power/weight ratios, endurance at MAP, 40k TT-power, power at lactate threshold, peak power and anaerobic work capacity. MAP and 40k TT power are the most highly correleated with road cycling performance, while MAP and peak power/AWC are more important for track cyclists performing shorter events.

Yeah, despite the fact that Lance's VO2Max is like 83 (not many folks have higher, but they do and he races them all the time) its his sustainable power at threshold that kills everyone. So intrinsic muscle strength, low lactic acid production (like Michael Phelps) and stuff like the ratio of length of femur to tibia and a bunch of other stuff, like desire and killer instinct and wish to be the best come in to play.

I think Brad McGee's VO2Max is like 88 or 90 or something but he cant sustain his great power output he used on the track in the pursuit and 4km TT it for 1 hour (yet) in a long time trial or a mountaim climb like Alpe Dhuez, raising power to weight issues as well.

Some kid in Australia a junior or Espoir has a sick VO2Max like 95 or something. It helps, but is not everything.

For example, Sean Yates was reputed to have almost identical if not superior VO2Max, lung capacity, power numbers as Eddy Merckx.

hombredesubaru said:

Yeah, despite the fact that Lance's VO2Max is like 83 (not many folks have higher, but they do and he races them all the time) its his sustainable power at threshold that kills everyone. So intrinsic muscle strength, low lactic acid production (like Michael Phelps) and stuff like the ratio of length of femur to tibia and a bunch of other stuff, like desire and killer instinct and wish to be the best come in to play.

I think Brad McGee's VO2Max is like 88 or 90 or something but he cant sustain his great power output he used on the track in the pursuit and 4km TT it for 1 hour (yet) in a long time trial or a mountaim climb like Alpe Dhuez, raising power to weight issues as well.

Some kid in Australia a junior or Espoir has a sick VO2Max like 95 or something. It helps, but is not everything.

For example, Sean Yates was reputed to have almost identical if not superior VO2Max, lung capacity, power numbers as Eddy Merckx.

lactate threshold (LT) is when you start to produce too much lactic acid right? How is it determined? How do you find your LT?

shming123 said:

lactate threshold (LT) is when you start to produce too much lactic acid right? How is it determined? How do you find your LT?

Lactate threshold is determined by doing a progressive, graded exercise test with either frequent finger sticks (blood tests) or exhaled CO2 measured to determine when LT is reached, and matched with HR and power output.

Oh yeah, someone studied the ONCE team back in the day. During the Vuelta and before and during season. Olano's VO2Max was in the 60s. He did so well by incredible pedalling efficiency in the TT, and some would say by having a hematocrit of 60 but I digress. One can be succesful with VO2Max lower than 70 but not that common I would think.

shming123 said:

lactate threshold (LT) is when you start to produce too much lactic acid right? How is it determined? How do you find your LT?

RST uses the definition generally agreed upon in the exercise science community: 1mmol above baseline lactate levels (usually ~2.5mmol = LT). This intensity can be maintained for 3hrs or more. However, you will often see LT incorrectly defined as the point at which lactate removal is equal to lactate production (more accurately described as Maximal Lactate Steady State) and is an intensity that can be maintained for ~1hr. LT can be measured directly via blood lactate testing (taking blood samples from the finger or earlobe over various intensities) or predicted based on maximal aerobic power output (as we do at RST - based on research on cyclists) or 40k TT power output.

hombredesubaru said:

Some kid in Australia a junior or Espoir has a sick VO2Max like 95 or something. It helps, but is not everything.

Your probably thinking of William Walker? He just won this race on the weekend cyclingnews.comoct04Open ↗ , not a bad effort for an 18 year old.

steve said:

Your probably thinking of William Walker? He just won this race on the weekend cyclingnews.comoct04Open ↗ , not a bad effort for an 18 year old.

Yep...It'll be Walker or Michael Ford. Genetic freaks!! 🙂

hombredesubaru said:

Yeah, despite the fact that Lance's VO2Max is like 83 (not many folks have higher, but they do and he races them all the time) its his sustainable power at threshold that kills everyone. So intrinsic muscle strength, low lactic acid production (like Michael Phelps) and stuff like the ratio of length of femur to tibia and a bunch of other stuff, like desire and killer instinct and wish to be the best come in to play.

Muscle strength will not come into it. Low lactic acid production is linked directly to avoiding anaerobic metabolism. His high power production is likely to be linked to a predominance of slow twitch muscle yielding a very high level of efficiency, and very well trained patterns of neuromuscular recruitment and resistance to fatigue of central motor units.

Quoted post said:

I think Brad McGee's VO2Max is like 88 or 90 or something but he cant sustain his great power output he used on the track in the pursuit and 4km TT it for 1 hour (yet) in a long time trial or a mountaim climb like Alpe Dhuez, raising power to weight issues as well.

Brad time trials extremely well - probably in the top 20 in the world, top 10 on a good course or a good day. Noone can sustain their 4 minute power for an hour, but McGee certainly doesn't seem to lack endurance or have a particularly low 60 minute power (on the contrary!).

Quoted post said:

Some kid in Australia a junior or Espoir has a sick VO2Max like 95 or something. It helps, but is not everything.

It is 91 according to a doctor who was there when he was tested, although I've seen 93 mentioned in the media. Will is a freak and he rides like one. He has just won a 300km UCI categorised race against professionals at the age of 18. What do you mean it isn't everything? He is one of the most talented rider anyone in Australia has ever seen. It doesn't hurt that he is hungry to win and trains smart and hard too.

Roadie_scum said:

Muscle strength will not come into it. Low lactic acid production is linked directly to avoiding anaerobic metabolism. His high power production is likely to be linked to a predominance of slow twitch muscle yielding a very high level of efficiency, and very well trained patterns of neuromuscular recruitment and resistance to fatigue of central motor units.

You know a lot more about this so I cede to your knowledge!

Brad time trials extremely well - probably in the top 20 in the world, top 10 on a good course or a good day. Noone can sustain their 4 minute power for an hour, but McGee certainly doesn't seem to lack endurance or have a particularly low 60 minute power (on the contrary!).

Absolutely right. All I meant was, e.g., when Lance won the prologue in the TdF 1999, he also won the first long TT at almost exactly the same speed, indicating he can sustain that 7 min power output for 60 minutes...pretty impressive. McGee will probably do the same over the next few years with more training and experience.

It is 91 according to a doctor who was there when he was tested, although I've seen 93 mentioned in the media. Will is a freak and he rides like one. He has just won a 300km UCI categorised race against professionals at the age of 18. What do you mean it isn't everything? He is one of the most talented rider anyone in Australia has ever seen. It doesn't hurt that he is hungry to win and trains smart and hard too.

All I meant was a number in isolation isn't everything, e.g. a VO2 Max of 91 or whatever. The other qualities you allude to this rider possessing in combination with that number make for a scary rider, the number without those other qualities would not necessarily a great rider make. A high VO2 would be a necessary but not sufficient condition let us say.