what about steel

redonefive said:

Hey, what about good old steel bikes. You the ones all of us old timers had.
They were strong and depending on the steel used very tough. On the other hand had great feeling though contact with the road. I ride steel and will always ride steel.

Preach it brother!

redonefive said:

Hey, what about good old steel bikes. You the ones all of us old timers had.
They were strong and depending on the steel used very tough. On the other hand had great feeling though contact with the road. I ride steel and will always ride steel.

and the point is

hi my names marty and im an a libra

fushman said:

and the point is

hi my names marty and im an a libra

yeah....odd. ???

What's "steel"?

WINGNUTT said:

What's "steel"?

Lol!

🙂

Excuse me for being serious 🙂 ...........

but,

most guys on most forum are what we call "weight weenies" (me included), and the problem with steel is that it's unlikely that you'll ever be able to buy one as light as, say, carbon, without it being as weak as aluminium foil.

So, basically, steel is usually gunna be too heavy and not as stiff as carbon or aluminium.

Only recently, the bike compaines are producing good steel frames that weigh less than 1500g.

[quote="nutbag"]Excuse me for being serious 🙂 ...........

but,

most guys on most forum are what we call "weight weenies" ...QUOTE]

I guess I'm a weight weenie too, but it's because I'm a stupid sucker for marketing.

I weigh 160 lbs. My bike weighs 18 lbs. Miscellaneous water bottles, pump, cages, spare tube call it another 2 lbs. Total 180 lbs or 81.7 kilos.

Now suppose I buy a scandium Aluminum frame that weighs 1000 g (2.2 lbs) instead of a old style cro-mo steel frame that weighs 2000 g (4.4 lbs)

Going up a hill, i am saving 1/81.7 = 1.2% of my energy by using a 1 kilo lighter frame.

Now consider that a mediocre house brand scandium frame is $1000 as opposed to a mediocre cro-mo frame is about $100. I've spent $900 to go up a one hour climb 43 seconds faster. Or a 5 minute climb 3.6 seconds faster.
No gain on flats, where weight is secondary.

Maybe worthwile for a seriously competitive rider. But, for the average joe, just plain silly.

[quote="Mr_Potatohead"]

nutbag said:

Maybe worthwile for a seriously competitive rider. But, for the average joe, just plain silly.

What about steel? Who cares. The stuff rusts. It's heavy. It looks wimpy - so skinny tubes. You are just an old fart that doesn't understand change. Anyone riding steel is like someone who fishes with a tin can and string.

Just kidding.

Modern tubing from Columbus, TrueTemper, Reynolds and if you can find it old Tange Prestige are great mediums for a frame. Even a good old Columbus SL or SLX frame of yore is damn good. But here's the problem guys and gals. I've been in the world of racing (cat 3 and 2) and have worked for several very high end bike shops in FL and CA. Having ridden and worked at these bike shops, I've learned that steel frames need to be prepped very well. BB and HS refaced and threads chased... and frames should all be aligned including derailler hanger and check for fork balance. You can buy a really nice steel frame and then open up the bb or hs and there's paint and junk still in there. The problem is the old world craftmanship of putting together a good modern steel bike isn't around anymore. I think bike setup is extremely important... on a steel bike several steps have to be done to get things running properly. On a carbon frame or even aluminum frames, the alignment is much better hence you have less chance of bad things happening when a mechanic with less than 3 years of experience is working on it.

Overall, I pledge that I will always be a STEEL is REAL guy but if I'm buying steel, I'd make sure I buy it from a shop where I can watch them prep the frame OR buy a frame from a local builder.

I own two carbon frames, 3 steel frames, and one aluminum. The latter gets the least miles. The carbon frames are great overall rides. But the steel makes me feel real.

Nicholas

StarryMan said:

I've learned that steel frames need to be prepped very well. BB and HS refaced and threads chased... and frames should all be aligned including derailler hanger and check for fork balance. You can buy a really nice steel frame and then open up the bb or hs and there's paint and junk still in there. The problem is the old world craftmanship of putting together a good modern steel bike isn't around anymore.

There is some hooey here, and it can apply just as well to any other material.

[quote="Mr_Potatohead"]

nutbag said:

Excuse me for being serious 🙂 ...........

but,

most guys on most forum are what we call "weight weenies" ...QUOTE]

I guess I'm a weight weenie too, but it's because I'm a stupid sucker for marketing.

I weigh 160 lbs. My bike weighs 18 lbs. Miscellaneous water bottles, pump, cages, spare tube call it another 2 lbs. Total 180 lbs or 81.7 kilos.

Now suppose I buy a scandium Aluminum frame that weighs 1000 g (2.2 lbs) instead of a old style cro-mo steel frame that weighs 2000 g (4.4 lbs)

Going up a hill, i am saving 1/81.7 = 1.2% of my energy by using a 1 kilo lighter frame.

Now consider that a mediocre house brand scandium frame is $1000 as opposed to a mediocre cro-mo frame is about $100. I've spent $900 to go up a one hour climb 43 seconds faster. Or a 5 minute climb 3.6 seconds faster.
No gain on flats, where weight is secondary.

Maybe worthwile for a seriously competitive rider. But, for the average joe, just plain silly.

redonefive said:

However have you ever seen a aluminum frame crunch? Or how bout one of those Carbon's crack.
One could not be fixed and the carbon still waiting to be fixed. Yes I love a light bike and of course doing your PM before a ride or race is the right thing to do.

I agree. I've busted two alu frames, so I've decided never to spend good money on one aver again.

Mmmmm.......Superprodigy.

nutbag said:

I agree. I've busted two alu frames, so I've decided never to spend good money on one aver again.

Mmmmm.......Superprodigy.

I've got an aluminum frame now, no complaints but it only has a couple thousand miles on it so the jury is still out as far as durability.

I had a cro-mo Specialized Allez frame that I bought in 1986. It lasted until 2000, until I had a run in with a truck. But I'm sure I put many thousands of miles on it with never a hint of a problem. I sprayed oil inside the tubes to prevent rust.

Lugged steel frames could probably be handed down to your grandchildren.

And therein lies the problem. The industry isn't going to make much money in sales of new bikes if they get handed down from generation to generation.

Mr_Potatohead said:

I've got an aluminum frame now, no complaints but it only has a couple thousand miles on it so the jury is still out as far as durability.

I had a cro-mo Specialized Allez frame that I bought in 1986. It lasted until 2000, until I had a run in with a truck. But I'm sure I put many thousands of miles on it with never a hint of a problem. I sprayed oil inside the tubes to prevent rust.

Lugged steel frames could probably be handed down to your grandchildren.

And therein lies the problem. The industry isn't going to make much money in sales of new bikes if they get handed down from generation to generation.

I think I busted mine because I'm a bit of a fat masher (190lbs)

Out of my cold dead hands will you remove my steel bike...Ok, Heston was talking about his gun, but it applies here.... 😄 It supports my carcass, and the ride is like velvet!

zapper said:

Out of my cold dead hands will you remove my steel bike...Ok, Heston was talking about his gun, but it applies here.... 😄 It supports my carcass, and the ride is like velvet!

Ha, that reminds me I gotta get off my ass and put my Reynolds 753 Raleigh team issue cyclocross frame together again...mmmm, 753 and long cyclocross chainstays, plus veloflex tires = 🙂 happy butt!

For an interesting (and opinionated) discussion about steel vs. other materials from a company that deals exclusively with lugged steel frames:
http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_pureopinions.html

I'm sure many here would disagree with those opinions but there is a good quote from the article:

"1) You don’t ride a material, you ride a bike; and
2) The ride quality of a bike is dependent upon so many variables that talking about how one material rides compared to another is ridiculous."

sfcommuter said:

For an interesting (and opinionated) discussion about steel vs. other materials from a company that deals exclusively with lugged steel frames:
http://www.rivbike.com/html/101_pureopinions.html

I'm sure many here would disagree with those opinions but there is a good quote from the article:

"1) You don’t ride a material, you ride a bike; and
2) The ride quality of a bike is dependent upon so many variables that talking about how one material rides compared to another is ridiculous."

Agree with those points; good to see they come from a distinguished builder of traditional lugged-steel frames.

This article is even more biased.

http://www.henryjames.com/faq.html

It's a good read. Scroll down to the FAQ