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What a sight!

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UK and Europe
Published
17 February 2005
Last activity
20 February 2005
Original author
BigRab
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72
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  1. JLB said:

    Yes, that's the general starting point. (There are circumstances where
    the burden of proof reverses, though that's not what we're talking
    about.) Since there is no need to prove innocence, of course the court
    does not pronounce on that question. It decides guilt, which is different.

    But your original post suggested that this was not the case. In fact, a
    "not guilty" verdict is a "proof" of innocence in as much as their
    innocence is still assumed. This is not the same as saying that they
    are_ innocent... very few people are. ;-)

    Jon

  2. Simon Brooke said:

    No. Standard double jeopardy rules apply. He's off scot-free, as they
    say.

    Is that the etymology of the phrase? It would make sense.

    Jon

  3. "JohnB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Vivian said:


    Who's PS?

    For those of a nervous disposition, avert your eyes now.
    If not....

    http://www.jbaird.org.uk/abd/paul.html

    John B

    My goodness. "What a sight" indeed.

    Gavin

  4. JohnB said:

    For those of a nervous disposition, avert your eyes now.
    If not....

    http://www.jbaird.org.uk/abd/paul.html

    EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

  5. Gavin Collinson said:


    I would normally be the first to criticise speeding but there are some
    interesting points from this prosecution. The car was an import from Japan
    and the limiter was fitted in Japan as 'standard' fit for this car. The
    second point is that the police camera must have been incorrect as the
    alleged speed was greater than the maximum speed of the car and finally the
    Scots have the rather useful "Not Proven" verdict. In other words - you are
    a guilty b*****d, but we can't prove it.

    If it was a Japanese car the speed limiter would IIRC be set at 100kph
    or approx 60mph (I know because I had to endure the damn thing chiming
    at me everytime I got near 60mph on the expressway)

    Tony

  6. Zog The Undeniable said:
    Jon Senior said:
    Gavin Collinson said:

    I would normally be the first to criticise speeding but there are
    some interesting points from this prosecution. The car was an import
    from Japan and the limiter was fitted in Japan as 'standard' fit for
    this car. The second point is that the police camera must have been
    incorrect as the alleged speed was greater than the maximum speed of
    the car

    <snip>

    This does assume that the limiter was a) calibrated correctly & b)
    working at all!

    WRT maximum speeds, the maximum speed of a F-reg Vauxhall Astra 1.3 is
    105mph. I can verify that with appropriate conditions it is possible
    to exceed 115mph.

    Most speedometers are 10% fast or worse. Don't ask me how I know, but
    my first car (an F-reg Micra) could do an indicated 92. The
    manufacturer's quoted top speed was 83.

    The upshot is that to be caught speeding in a 30 zone (you'd have to be
    clocked by the police at 35mph, i.e. add 10% and 2mph) your speedo would
    have been showing around 38-39mph. 90% of people who say they just
    "drifted" over the limit are lying [censored].

    The error in speedometers isn't consistent. They will more commonly
    read roughly correctly, or occasionally slightly under, at lower speeds,
    i.e. around 30, and read significantly over at higher speeds - the 10%
    that is often quoted as a worst case.

    Pete

  7. JohnB said:
    Vivian said:

    Who's PS?

    For those of a nervous disposition, avert your eyes now.
    If not....

    http://www.jbaird.org.uk/abd/paul.html

    John B

    Lets see your picture John B to see whether nature was kind to you or not.

    Tony

  8. in message <[email hidden]>, Jon Senior

    jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk ('') said:
    Simon Brooke said:

    No. Standard double jeopardy rules apply. He's off scot-free, as they
    say.

    Is that the etymology of the phrase? It would make sense.

    No, it's a pun. The etymology of 'scot' in the sense of 'scot-free' is
    that it's old English for 'tax', wholly unrelated to the name of the
    Irish tribe who invaded Argyle in the 4th Century and are now known as
    the Campbells.

    --
    [email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

    ;; ... exposing the violence incoherent in the system...

  9. Response to Mark Thompson:

    Quoted message said:

    He also thinks that automated enforcement of speed limits is bad in part
    because drivers spend to much time concentrating on the speedometer.

    Has he made any public pronouncement on

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4254623.stm

    yet, I wonder?

    --
    Mark, UK.

    "Sir, Sunday morning, although recurring at regular and well
    foreseen intervals, always seems to take this railway by
    surprise."

  10. Richard Bates said:
    Vivian said:

    Who's PS?

    He is a man whose name is an anagram of "A [censored] Lump"

    You mean his name's an anagram of "Halt, I'm pus".

    Beamers kill no van

  11. "Tony Raven" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Lets see your picture John B to see whether nature was kind to you or not.

    There's a certain amount of that, but some of it is deliberate on his
    part...

    cheers,
    clive

  12. Gavin Collinson said:

    The
    second point is that the police camera must have been incorrect as the
    alleged speed was greater than the maximum speed of the car

    Worth asking for equipment calibration certificates and operator
    training logs, I would have thought.

  13. Ningi said:

    They will more commonly
    read roughly correctly, or occasionally slightly under

    Not legal to read 'under' at any speed, AFAIR.

  14. JohnB said:
    Vivian said:


    Who's PS?

    For those of a nervous disposition, avert your eyes now.
    If not....

    http://www.jbaird.org.uk/abd/paul.html

    John B

    My my, Grandma, what big eyes you have.

  15. Mark McNeill said:

    Response to Mark Thompson:

    Quoted message said:

    He also thinks that automated enforcement of speed limits is bad in


    part

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    because drivers spend to much time concentrating on the


    speedometer.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Has he made any public pronouncement on

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4254623.stm

    yet, I wonder?

    ""Because cameras are unpopular, their fans produce a constant barrage
    of propaganda to try and justify them," he said. "

    Cats, dogs, hairy arses.

  16. Al C-F said:
    Ningi said:

    They will more commonly
    read roughly correctly, or occasionally slightly under

    Not legal to read 'under' at any speed, AFAIR.

    Yup, but it doesn't mean that they don't.

    Pete

  17. If it was a Japanese import car, and hadn't been modified in anyway -
    might happen, to comply with UK/EU regulations, then the limiter is set
    at 160km/h. Some small cars,with nowadays 660c.c. engines, have an
    annoying alarm at 100 km/h to warn you that you are exceeding the, now
    superceded, speed limit for that class of car of 80 km/h on expressways
    (motorways), it's now 100km/h. However there is a large market in
    re-chipping popular cars and his may well have been re-chipped before
    it was shipped to the UK especially if it was one of the more exotic
    cars. Does anyone know what car it was?

    AndyM
    [censored] Japan

  18. PeteC said:
    BigRab said:

    There I was, eating my dinner and watching Reporting Scotland about a
    poor motorist caught doing 130odd mph and getting away with it cos he
    said that his vehicle was limited to 107 (ok so he was probably on the
    limiter then)when who should appear on screen....... PS!

    Aaaaarg! Nearly chucked my dinner up again!

    BigRab

    I suppose if I was caught at 130+, I'd get a speed limited fitted asap and
    claim to plod that I'd had it for ages.


    I don't normally read the Daily Express, but I picked up a copy on the
    train yesterday.
    The car in question was a Japanese 'grey import' which in Japan is fitted
    with a speed limiter. The article said that there was no way the limiter
    could be disabled (don't know if that is true/false)

  19. Simon Brooke said:

    No, it's a pun. The etymology of 'scot' in the sense of 'scot-free' is
    that it's old English for 'tax', wholly unrelated to the name of the
    Irish tribe who invaded Argyle in the 4th Century and are now known as
    the Campbells.

    Shame. I knew it was too good to be true. ;-)

    Jon

  20. JohnB said:
    Vivian said:

    Who's PS?

    For those of a nervous disposition, avert your eyes now.
    If not....

    http://www.jbaird.org.uk/abd/paul.html

    To be fair it doesn't matter what he looks like. What *is* disgusting on
    this page is the text alongside the picture.

    Colin

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