What a disappointment

tam said:

Logged on to this group for recumbent news/info.
How sad it seems to be full of non-recumbenting trolls.

Hey guys -

Sii-ii-ii-iigh... here we go again. Yes, Tam, Virginia
and all the other folks who peek in at ARBR to see if
things might be getting a little bit better. Well, the
simple answer is: Sorry, no, not yet. The trouble with
ARBR - to borrow a phrase - is still the TROLL.

Today the tenaciously trenchant old TROLL is teasingly
titillating us with its thrillingly tempting tender to
terminate its terrorist tendencies on our turf, turning
to trash two or three tyro teams... But don't get your
hopes up, folks.

MINOR DIGRESSION: For several months now, the TROLL has
been blathering about its "seminal" messages, seemingly
thinking the word has something to do with preparing us
for its departure. Of course that word actually has two
other meanings, and it's pretty obvious, I think, that
this time it wasn't 'original'. Was this instead yet
another Freudian slip by the TROLL, perhaps indicating
some veracity in irreverent speculation by some of its
detractors about what its right hand is doing below the
keyboard while its left is busily tapping out typos?

Anyway, please take this message as another reminder
that the most effective method for minimizing the harm
the TROLL has done and will continue doing to this
newsgroup is simply to ignore it, and focus only on
the on-topic or at least amusingly entertaining content
posted for the group. Don't respond to any threads the
TROLL starts. Don't EVER reply to it directly. Don't
acknowledge any insults, speculations, challenges,
ridiculous taunts, or even outright lies it posts about
you personally; who the HELL cares what it thinks?

Please refrain from even addressing any of the TROLL's
content in its posts to other threads, on or off topic.
Historically, one of its most common ploys to weasel
its way back into public recognition has been to post
a response that's almost relevant, but which will lead
(sooner more likely than later) to posturing with one
of its trite, facetious 'facts' or 'opinions'. Real
facts: recumbent development did not end with the EZ-1
and/or TerraTrike V1.6; thousands of folks are quite
content to have spent more than $500 on their bikes;
many, if not most of them, ride around perfectly happy
with crank brackets higher than a foot or so below their
seats, some even [GASP!] above their behinds; tadpoles
are routinely ridden by fairly normal people at speeds
of 15 MPH and beyond with very few fatalities, crashes
or even a seriously threatening loss of control, either
coasting or even [GASP!] while briskly pedaling. Even if
the TROLL is really, honestly so damned stupid that it
can't recognize this kind of basic truths, it's clearly
also way too damned stubborn for anything any of us are
going to say to change its feeble mind.

Simply put, the best advice for dealing with this TROLL
[deja vu] is: Don't read it; don't heed it; don't feed
it; don't breed it.

One more reminder for those who enjoy a bit of humor
in poetry and prose about the TROLL: our website has
a small section called 'Here There be TROLLS' -

http://www.32go.us/pow/htbt/index.htm

which is altruistically provided for the amusement of
all those who have been annoyed, insulted, irritated,
offended or dismayed by the antisocial, BAD behavior
of ARBR's truculent TROLL over the last three years.

I've recently posted a new poem, as well as adding a
couple of other choice bits (by request) from the past.
The first two lines of the newest poem are:

The 'trouble' ARBR has is no surprise;
It's one old fool who's wizened but not wise.

Enjoy the fun; endure the TROLL if you possibly can.

Regards,
Wayne

Yes my mothers obsession is signage like disabled parking---its not
disabled- and- comma s in the wrong place.
She is of course 97 years of age and has difficulty with days.
TTTTTTTTTTTTTTam

Quoted message said:

Sii-ii-ii-iigh... here we go again. Yes, Tam, Virginia
and all the other folks who peek in at ARBR to see if
things might be getting a little bit better. Well, the
simple answer is: Sorry, no, not yet. The trouble with
ARBR - to borrow a phrase - is still the TROLL.

Today the tenaciously trenchant old TROLL is teasingly
titillating us with its thrillingly tempting tender to
terminate its terrorist tendencies on our turf, turning
to trash two or three tyro teams... But don't get your
hopes up, folks.

Tom Keats said:

Y'know what? I've heard of women recumbent riders,
but I've never seen any. Whuzzup with that?

You're in the wrong place, obviously...

Pete (married to a recumbent riding woman).
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Tom Keats said:

How many other recumbent riding women do you
get to see per diem?

In the pages of Ligfiets& there are usually quite a few (although still
a clear minority). In the flesh I know a couple more. OTOH, amongst
serious roadies they're a clear minority too, and in terms of
proportions I wouldn't be surprised if they were similar.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

(Tom Keats) said:

Y'mean like daring to ride a /real/ bicycle?

OMG, that's so stupid, that's like a motorist saying "a /rea/ vehicle"
or something.

Quoted message said:

Y'know what? I've heard of women recumbent riders,
but I've never seen any. Whuzzup with that?

I suppose attitudes such as your is one major factor. Females are so
about not being made fun of. That's their biggest weakness, as many a
pick-up artist knows.

Quoted message said:

I see lots o' women riding normal bikes. Sometimes
I even get to socially interact with them, in a
"small talk" sort of way -- usually at stoplines &
stoplights.

Ack, I don't care for small talk. It gets boring; the same chatter,
like a programming sub-routine. Believe it or not, conversations on
usenet are much more intellectually stimulating! Of course, it's just
a bunch of guys here, too.

Quoted message said:

But the few recumbent riders I encounter are always
men, and they don't wanna talk to anybody. I dunno
if they're antisocial, or just too embarrassed to
talk to anybody. Or maybe they're just a bunch of
shy, underconfident nerds?

Speaking for myself again, it's just boring going through the same
programming sub-routine "conversation tree": did you make it
yourself? How much is it? Where did you get it? Is it unsafe? How
much does it weigh? How is it on hills? Don't you need clipless
pedals? Where's your helmet?

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Tom Keats (unpoetically) asked:

Quoted message said:

I've heard of women recumbent riders, but I've never
seen any. Whuzzup with that?

This reply isn't cross-posted, and I doubt that (the
other?) Tom will read it. I can certainly understand
him taking offense that the TROLL has such low regard
for Usenetiquette, perhaps even that he might be hurt
by the TROLL's repetitious (but thoroughly unconvincing)
claims of expertise in the works of Byron, while ignoring
Tom's namesake.

However, in support of Peter's protest:

Quoted message said:

In the flesh I know a couple more.

and for whatever benefit or interest it brings to ARBR
readers, women really aren't that much of a rarity in
our local recumbent group. There's only one that I would
risk public acknowledgement of 'knowing' "in the flesh",
but roughly a third of our local recumbent group are
seriously testosterone impaired. We have single females
as well as some who are married to or otherwise involved
with partners who cycle, and it's not even unusual for
a woman to be more enthusiastic about riding than her
'partner'.

If photographic illustration can help anyone who wants
to refute limited observations and/or ridiculous
assumptions in this kind of argument or question by
folks like Tom (or TROLLS, but why bother?), it can be
found on our website:

http://www.vcrr.org/news.htm

Click on the 'MORE PIX' buttons to see snapshots taken
on our last few group rides.

Seriously, my personal spin on this whole issue is that
recumbents are more expensive than 'roughly equivalent'
uprights, and in general, as an exaggerated stereotype,
I find men are much less reluctant to spend big bucks for
technological advances in hobby equipment than women are.
A female cyclist is simply more apt to 'make do' with her
old diamond frame, while a male may be totally gung ho
for any excuse to splurge on a new toy.

Regards,
Wayne

Quoted message said:

Speaking for myself again, it's just boring going through the same
programming sub-routine "conversation tree": did you make it
yourself? How much is it? Where did you get it? Is it unsafe? How
much does it weigh? How is it on hills? Don't you need clipless
pedals? Where's your helmet?

I must admit in the early years of my recumbent trike riding I found these
endless repetitious conversations so boring after the 100th.
How much did it cost- what is the weight-isnt it dangerous-on and on and on.
In the end I made up a plaque with all the data on it.
I still return to find someone waiting for more data.
Its just part of the recumbent triking experience.
Tam

"tam" wrote: I must admit in the early years of my recumbent trike riding
I found these

Quoted message said:

endless repetitious conversations so boring after the 100th. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When someone asks me about something of mine, (bike, homemade belt buckle,
camera, etc) I consider it a compliment that they want to talk to me. Maybe
I'm just lonely. Why don't you hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on your trike,
along with the list of answers to FAQ? :-)

Quoted message said:

When someone asks me about something of mine, (bike, homemade belt buckle,
camera, etc) I consider it a compliment that they want to talk to me.
Maybe I'm just lonely. Why don't you hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on your
trike, along with the list of answers to FAQ? :-)

I see you have no experience of continental triking.
When triking in a large city in Europe people of all ages and types are
verrrrrry interested in trikes.
Its probably the first one they have seen.
When you get asked the same questions 15 times in one day-including
interupting your meal in a restaurant- it gets wearing.
I am always polite and answer all their questions.
I would not hang a do not disturb sign on my trike I am a well brought up
Scot-but-its as well to be warned-owners of trikes are going to get a lot of
attention.
Tam

tam said:

I see you have no experience of continental triking.
When triking in a large city in Europe people of all ages and types are
verrrrrry interested in trikes.
Its probably the first one they have seen.
When you get asked the same questions 15 times in one day-including
interupting your meal in a restaurant- it gets wearing.
I am always polite and answer all their questions.
I would not hang a do not disturb sign on my trike I am a well brought up
Scot-but-its as well to be warned-owners of trikes are going to get a lot of
attention.
Tam

Eh? I would have thought that given the continentals' great interest
in cycling, it wouldn't be the first time they've seen a 'bent -- even
a trike!

At first, I would try to encourage people's interest, but the last
straw for me was last summer, when, while going over the Staten Island
ferry, one of them underpaid Third World security guards asked me how
much my HP Velo SMGTe cost, and when I finally told him, he started
laughing like I just showed him my ass or something. I was just like,
you know, sorry you could have bought a house in your country with the
money I used to buy a bike, but don't choke on it, okay, jeez....

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I see you have no experience of continental triking.
When triking in a large city in Europe people of all ages and types are
verrrrrry interested in trikes.
Its probably the first one they have seen.
When you get asked the same questions 15 times in one day-including
interupting your meal in a restaurant- it gets wearing.
I am always polite and answer all their questions.
I would not hang a do not disturb sign on my trike I am a well brought up
Scot-but-its as well to be warned-owners of trikes are going to get a lot
of
attention.
Tam

Eh? I would have thought that given the continentals' great interest
in cycling, it wouldn't be the first time they've seen a 'bent -- even
a trike!

Certainly in Holland and France its ok but in Berlin-as you say-where bikes
are king of the road-often when I stop at a red light on the road the
enquiries begin.
I suppose its because my trike folds and has suspension on all three
wheels-the 63 ratio s impress to.
On the cost issue thats not a problem for Dutch and German cyclists they
know a good bike costs money.
Most bike shops stock bikes starting at 400 euros and up to 1500 in ordinary
shops.
Off road prices are like the UK you could buy a good second hand car for the
price of an off roader----well my sons pals 3 off road bikes cost £10000
collectively plus custom bits of course---wish I could justify laying out
that!!.
Tam

Leo Lichtman said:

"tam" wrote: I must admit in the early years of my recumbent trike riding
I found these

Quoted message said:

endless repetitious conversations so boring after the 100th. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When someone asks me about something of mine, (bike, homemade belt buckle,
camera, etc) I consider it a compliment that they want to talk to me. Maybe
I'm just lonely. Why don't you hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on your trike,
along with the list of answers to FAQ? :-)

I plan to do something just like that if I can find a way to mount
visible signs that do not cause extra drag.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

Prisoner at War said:

...
At first, I would try to encourage people's interest, but the last
straw for me was last summer, when, while going over the Staten Island
ferry, one of them underpaid Third World security guards asked me how
much my HP Velo SMGTe cost, and when I finally told him, he started
laughing like I just showed him my ass or something. I was just like,
you know, sorry you could have bought a house in your country with the
money I used to buy a bike, but don't choke on it, okay, jeez....

I tell people my Sunset cost about "two" with the hope they will think
$200 instead of $2000 [1] (unless they are a cyclist and will know better).

[1] Used, that is.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

Tom Sherman said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"tam" wrote: I must admit in the early years of my recumbent trike riding
I found these

Quoted message said:

endless repetitious conversations so boring after the 100th. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When someone asks me about something of mine, (bike, homemade belt buckle,
camera, etc) I consider it a compliment that they want to talk to me. Maybe
I'm just lonely. Why don't you hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on your trike,
along with the list of answers to FAQ? :-)

I plan to do something just like that if I can find a way to mount
visible signs that do not cause extra drag.

The Xtracycle attracts lots of comments and questions.

The two most common: "did you make that?" and "where can I get one?"
--
zk

Zoot Katz said:

Tom Sherman said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"tam" wrote: I must admit in the early years of my recumbent trike riding
I found these
> endless repetitious conversations so boring after the 100th. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
When someone asks me about something of mine, (bike, homemade belt buckle,
camera, etc) I consider it a compliment that they want to talk to me. Maybe
I'm just lonely. Why don't you hang a "Do Not Disturb" sign on your trike,
along with the list of answers to FAQ? :-)

I plan to do something just like that if I can find a way to mount
visible signs that do not cause extra drag.

The Xtracycle attracts lots of comments and questions.

The two most common: "did you make that?" and "where can I get one?"

You could always print out copies of the Xtracycle contact page [1] and
hand them out to the curious.

[1] <http://www.xtracycle.com/contact.php>.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
"the grinning buddy bear carries a fork." - g.d.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Sherman said:

Quoted message said:

I see lots o' women riding normal bikes. Sometimes
I even get to socially interact with them, in a
"small talk" sort of way -- usually at stoplines &
stoplights.

Many women get tired of being "hit on", so I never initiate the
conversation while riding, unless it is someone I already know.

It's not a matter of hitting on anybody. The women are
often the conversation initiators. I guess it's just the
typical gregariousness of cyclists at play. And my main
bike is quite identifiable, so I guess I'm getting to be
a known quantity and a familiar sight on Vancouver streets.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But the few recumbent riders I encounter are always
men, and they don't wanna talk to anybody. I dunno
if they're antisocial, or just too embarrassed to
talk to anybody. Or maybe they're just a bunch of
shy, underconfident nerds?

Many upright riders would rather pretend that recumbents do not exist,
so I will not hinder their attempt (in real life - Usenet is different).
N.b. to Jobst Brandt.

I "get" that it's the other way around -- the local
recumbent riders here are off in their own private
Idahos, and seem to turn their noses up at upright
riders. But I guess that's only natural, since we
tower over 'em :-)

Maybe if I attended a CM ride I could get to meet &
socialize with some recumbent riders. Maybe even
some women recumbent riders.

cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Prisoner at War said:

(Tom Keats) said:

Y'mean like daring to ride a /real/ bicycle?

OMG, that's so stupid, that's like a motorist saying "a /rea/ vehicle"
or something.

Quoted message said:

Y'know what? I've heard of women recumbent riders,
but I've never seen any. Whuzzup with that?

Is partly because there are less female cyclists in general.

And very few recumbent cyclists.

Thus it is to be expect to the intersection of these two groups is
very tiny indeed.

Quoted message said:

I suppose attitudes such as your is one major factor. Females are so
about not being made fun of. That's their biggest weakness, as many a
pick-up artist knows.

Quoted message said:

I see lots o' women riding normal bikes. Sometimes
I even get to socially interact with them, in a
"small talk" sort of way -- usually at stoplines &
stoplights.

Ack, I don't care for small talk. It gets boring; the same chatter,
like a programming sub-routine. Believe it or not, conversations on
usenet are much more intellectually stimulating! Of course, it's just
a bunch of guys here, too.

Quoted message said:

But the few recumbent riders I encounter are always
men, and they don't wanna talk to anybody. I dunno
if they're antisocial, or just too embarrassed to
talk to anybody. Or maybe they're just a bunch of
shy, underconfident nerds?

Speaking for myself again, it's just boring going through the same
programming sub-routine "conversation tree": did you make it
yourself? How much is it? Where did you get it? Is it unsafe? How
much does it weigh? How is it on hills? Don't you need clipless
pedals? Where's your helmet?

Quoted message said:

cheers,
Tom

Quoted message said:

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

still just me said:

Well, it is possible to have a conversation and not "hit on" a woman.
You can also have a conversation and find out if you have anything in
common and then just ask someone if they want to meet you for coffee
or whatever. That's not "hitting", it's just "meeting". They accept or
decline, life goes on.

Or (sorry if this sounds a bit radical...) you could just exchange
greetings and minor pleasantries of the sort that just oil the world on
its way, irrespective of the sex of the other rider! You could think of
the other rider as "person on bike" rather than "man" or "woman"...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

"still just me" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

'bent riders are at the wrong height to converse,

Perhaps a low racer recumbent side-by-side with an 'ordinary' might present
a
challenge to easily audible exchanges. But for less extreme combinations,
many of us manage conversation quite well while riding in "mixed" groups
of uprights and recumbents...

I'm not a "frame-ist." Some of my best friends ride uprights... %^)

Jon