Western Isles windfarm application

Duncan Gray said:

While it is obviously difficult to argue against generation of power by
green means

Not really: power generation by any means is considerably less green
than improving energy efficiency and no needing the extra power to start
with!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 13:38:58 -0000, "Duncan Gray" <[email hidden]>
wrote:

| As Chris and I were discussing in the F&M thread, a planning application has
| been made to build a massive windfarm on the Isle of Lewis.

I rather like the look of modern windfarms.
IMO they are quite visually attractive.

--
Dave F

Duncan Gray said:

The proposed windfarm stretches over about 40km and would have 234 turbines.
The applicants have produced an environmental study which estimates 50
golden eagles and many other birds will die during the lifespan of the
windfarm, which will be 25 years

How many Islanders will die within the same period?

Dave Fawthrop said:

I rather like the look of modern windfarms.
IMO they are quite visually attractive.

I rather like the look of the London Gherkin but I wouldn't like to
see a similar building in the middle of a conservation area.

--
York Alpine Club - http://www.yorkalpineclub.org.uk
Recent Photos - http://climbing.me.uk
Old Photos - http://www.simon-caldwell.co.uk
My Brother's Photos - http://www.caldwellcreations.co.uk

Duncan Gray said:

As Chris and I were discussing in the F&M thread, a planning application has
been made to build a massive windfarm on the Isle of Lewis.

While it is obviously difficult to argue against generation of power by
green means, I think this is unacceptable in an area of outstanding beauty
and environmental sensitivity.

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description as
an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.
The island's endless peat bog terrain interspersed with Lewisian
gneiss boulders and minimal elevation which is blasted by 30mph -
60mph winds regularly throughout the year would seem to be an ideal
location for a wind farm.

Considering that we are surrounded by sea one would think that more
effort would be put into making use of this natural resource for
generating electricity.

Norman

"Norman" <[email hidden]> wrote in #

Quoted message said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description

as

Quoted message said:

an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.
The island's endless peat bog terrain interspersed with Lewisian
gneiss boulders and minimal elevation which is blasted by 30mph -
60mph winds regularly throughout the year would seem to be an ideal
location for a wind farm.

Considering that we are surrounded by sea one would think that more
effort would be put into making use of this natural resource for
generating electricity.

We have recently seen a proposal for a small windfarm knocked into
touch in this area (north of Lincoln). It would appear that whilst
most people regard the theory of clean energy to be admirable, any
such proposal is met with violent Nimbyism when it happens to be
within view. I understand that for it to make any impact on the
National Grid this form of renewable energy would have to make a
massive impact on the eye. If Lewis is not acceptable then where is?
The form of energy can neither be located in wild (too beautiful) or
rural/urban (too damaging to house prices!) areas.

Graham

In article <[email hidden]>, spongebob
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Norman" <[email hidden]> wrote in #

Quoted message said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description

as

Quoted message said:

an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.
The island's endless peat bog terrain interspersed with Lewisian
gneiss boulders and minimal elevation which is blasted by 30mph -
60mph winds regularly throughout the year would seem to be an ideal
location for a wind farm.

Considering that we are surrounded by sea one would think that more
effort would be put into making use of this natural resource for
generating electricity.

We have recently seen a proposal for a small windfarm knocked into
touch in this area (north of Lincoln). It would appear that whilst
most people regard the theory of clean energy to be admirable, any
such proposal is met with violent Nimbyism when it happens to be
within view. I understand that for it to make any impact on the
National Grid this form of renewable energy would have to make a
massive impact on the eye. If Lewis is not acceptable then where is?
The form of energy can neither be located in wild (too beautiful) or
rural/urban (too damaging to house prices!) areas.

Build them underground ;-)

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/

(Norman) said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description as
an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.

I agree with this bit - it's not the sort of scenery I like.

Quoted message said:

The island's endless peat bog terrain interspersed with Lewisian
gneiss boulders and minimal elevation which is blasted by 30mph -
60mph winds regularly throughout the year would seem to be an ideal
location for a wind farm.

It would be an even more ideal location for a nuclear power station:
this would have the advantage of actually producing a meaningful
amount of power! And it could be covered in turf...

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

"Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Norman) said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description as
an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.

I agree with this bit - it's not the sort of scenery I like.

Quoted message said:

The island's endless peat bog terrain interspersed with Lewisian
gneiss boulders and minimal elevation which is blasted by 30mph -
60mph winds regularly throughout the year would seem to be an ideal
location for a wind farm.

It would be an even more ideal location for a nuclear power station:
this would have the advantage of actually producing a meaningful
amount of power! And it could be covered in turf...

But the Western Isles doesn't need all that power. Your nuclear power
station could probably be built more cheaply close to where the demand for
electricity is, and save all that transmission loss through hundreds of
miles of cable.

In Article <[email hidden]>,"Duncan Gray"

Quoted message said:

But the Western Isles doesn't need all that power. Your nuclear power
station could probably be built more cheaply close to where the demand for
electricity is, and save all that transmission loss through hundreds of
miles of cable.

Excellent idea, can I suggest Slough 😉

Regards,
Richard G.

Duncan Gray said:

But the Western Isles doesn't need all that power. Your nuclear power
station could probably be built more cheaply close to where the demand for
electricity is, and save all that transmission loss through hundreds of
miles of cable.

I'm not technically minded, Duncan.
But does cabling it really lose much energy?

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

Duncan Gray <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

But the Western Isles doesn't need all that power. Your nuclear power
station could probably be built more cheaply close to where the demand for
electricity is, and save all that transmission loss through hundreds of
miles of cable.

You mean the transmission line from Mainland to the Outer isles.
I agree with a previous OP re the general scenery on Lewis being so
bloody drab, some nice beaches though.
Though the laybyes seem to have a copious number of bottles chucked
about and there seems a high number of scrap motors present around the
island
BUT i would be incandescent if the views to be seen from around the
Standing stones at Callanish were affected by any sighting of 20/21st
century artefacts. Or for that matter Carloway Brock

The problem is that modern man wants modern conveniences which require
some form of power distribution,
There is a valid case for better thermal efficiency needed in some
properties
anywhere even on the mainland
There is a case for looking into our less than efficient use of power
at the moment.
But we as a nation still have to look at the long term generation and
distribution of power from whatever means is viable
--
superted

On Thu, 9 Dec 2004 22:56:54 +0000, superted <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

a high number of scrap motors present

All the islands there that I've visited are like that. You can see the
motoring history of lots of farms - an ancient black Austin with those
indicators that come up out of the side, then on through various 60s
and 70s models, Cortinas, old Minis, gradually moving into the
hatchback era, and so on. And numerous decrepit tractors, of course.

Which reminds me: my first visit to Barra, in the pub at Castlebay. I
got chatting to the barmaid about island life. I asked about crime - a
fair number of burglaries, I was told. And what about violent crime?
At that point an incredibly vicious fight broke out, with one guy
getting his face beaten to a pulp and then getting thrown down the
stone steps outside; so the barmaid never got the chance to answer my
question.

--

R
o
o
n
e
y

Norman said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description as
an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.

The Cairngorm Plateau is hardly inspiring to look at from a lot of
angles. Does that mean it's okay to build on it?

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

sgrìobh Duncan Gray

Quoted message said:

"Rooney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Norman) said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description as
an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.

I agree with this bit - it's not the sort of scenery I like.

Quoted message said:

The island's endless peat bog terrain interspersed with Lewisian
gneiss boulders and minimal elevation which is blasted by 30mph -
60mph winds regularly throughout the year would seem to be an ideal
location for a wind farm.

It would be an even more ideal location for a nuclear power station:
this would have the advantage of actually producing a meaningful
amount of power! And it could be covered in turf...

But the Western Isles doesn't need all that power. Your nuclear power
station could probably be built more cheaply close to where the demand for
electricity is, and save all that transmission loss through hundreds of
miles of cable.

The trouble is that in places of high employment, the natives are very
keen to get the work. Look at Dounreay or the Holy Loch US Naval base,
there was major alarm at the demise of these operations.

Ask the locals, not the white settlers and I would imagine that the
majority would be in favour of the project.

BTW, I am not.

As an aside, if they did get the go ahead, all you would have to do
would be put fluorescent yellow wire round the blades, rather like the
domestic fans with their wire guards that protect little fingers.

This would stop the blending of blood and feathers in an inappropriate
manner for the continued existence of our avian friends.
--
Lachie.
Hezakiah 14:10 Na sanntaich na caoirich do choimhearsnaich, oir tha'n
Tighearna do Dhia 'n a Dhia eudmhor...

Lachie said:

Ask the locals, not the white settlers and I would imagine that the
majority would be in favour of the project.

In the NW the "white settlers" often /are/ the locals. You don't give
up the ratrace to become a crofter because it's some easy option, and
places like the Yorkshire Dales are more attractive as venues for
retirement to the country.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

Norman said:

I am surprised that the Isle of Lewis has inspired the description as
an area of outstanding beauty. When I visited the island a few years
ago I thought it was the least attractive of the Western Isles being
less appealing than its more southern half, Isle of Harris.

The Cairngorm Plateau is hardly inspiring to look at from a lot of
angles. Does that mean it's okay to build on it?

Pete.

Yes, I suppose it would be fair game for a proposed site if the
necessity arose.
Some thoughts on the subject:
I understand that when the wind generators are past their useful life
they can be dismantled and the area returned to its previous state
within a few days. This contrasts greatly with any mining areas or
nuclear sites. Sellafield is likely to remain a no-go area for
hundreds of years after decomissioning. If there was ever a
substantial fuel leak, the Lake District would most likely be closed
for centuries.
It has taken 20 yrs to grass over mining waste in South Yorkshire.

Hydro electric plants have spawned miles of huge pipelines.

If a wind turbine fell over it would probably be a source of amusement
to the locals and be discussed in the pub ad infinitum.

I wouldn't mind one near me if it supplied me with cheaper
electricity.
For about £2000 per head all houses could be equipped with solar
panels, invertors, batteries etc to make us all virtually self
sufficient in electricity for most of the year.

Norman

Norman said:

If a wind turbine fell over it would probably be a source of amusement
to the locals and be discussed in the pub ad infinitum.

"Oooh arr, I remember when that there windymill fell on top of old
Jonesey's place and killed him and the missus and their bairns....."

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't mind one near me if it supplied me with cheaper
electricity.

Typically they don't. It's only viable because of the grants and
incentives the government are using to push renewables so that they
can meet the quota for renewable sources of power, except of couse
they are failing to meet the quota for greenhouse gasses.

Quoted message said:

For about £2000 per head all houses could be equipped with solar
panels, invertors, batteries etc to make us all virtually self
sufficient in electricity for most of the year.

Add in better insulation, smaller offices, shops with doors (remember
them?) and gadgets with off switches and we could get by with about
half the electricity we think we need.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

In article <[email hidden]>, Norman
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

I understand that when the wind generators are past their useful life
they can be dismantled and the area returned to its previous state
within a few days.

The turbine itself could be but the huge concrete base takes a lot of
removing - if they choose to do so...

[snip]

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't mind one near me if it supplied me with cheaper
electricity.

But you won't get it cheaper.

Quoted message said:

For about £2000 per head all houses could be equipped with solar
panels, invertors, batteries etc to make us all virtually self
sufficient in electricity for most of the year.

I doubt that even for houses with a southerly aspect to one of the roof
slopes.

Have you any idea how many batteries it would take to power the average
home's electricity need in the hours of darkness? Lighting would likely
not be a problem but things like kettles, electric showers and ovens
draw quite a bit of juice.

How often would the batteries need replacing and at what cost (for
maintenance free cells it can get quite expensive)?

How about homes with proportionally less roof area e.g. flats?

--

Dominic Sexton
http://www.dscs.demon.co.uk/