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Weil Takes on Anti-Aging 'False Prophets'

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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24 October 2005
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C.Health
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  1. By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET

    The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative and
    traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    aging, and why it is and should be healthy.

    In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging process,
    have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been leveled
    at Weil for years.

    Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    "I think those are very wrong ideas," he says during a recent interview at
    his Vail ranch, about 30 miles southeast of Tucson. "Aging is a universal
    natural process, and I think if you set yourself up in opposition to it,
    you're in a very wrong relationship with nature."

    In his latest book, "Healthy Aging," Weil argues that there are no effective
    anti-aging medicines. Publisher Alfred A. Knopf is banking that Weil's
    streak of four straight best sellers will continue, with an initial printing
    of 650,000 copies.

    Throughout his career, Weil has championed herbal remedies, acupuncture,
    osteopathy, cranial therapy, hypnotherapy and nutritional approaches to
    wellness, as well as traditional medicine.

    He majored in botany as an undergrad at Harvard University, where he also
    went to medical school, graduating in 1968. He left the National Institutes
    of Mental Health after the first year of an internship to travel the world,
    pursuing his interest in plant study and herbal remedies. He largely
    supported himself through college and the 1970s as a freelance magazine
    writer.

    Then his car broke down in Tucson during the warm, wet winter of 1973, with
    the desert in full bloom, and he never left. Weil continued writing and
    eventually began lecturing at what was the University of Arizona's
    then-fledgling medical school about marijuana, which he said in interviews
    at the time was a mild intoxicant. Later, he began giving lectures on
    alternative medicine. He launched a first-of-its-kind integrative medicine
    program in the College of Medicine in 1997.

    "My strong conviction always had been that the main business of doctors
    should be to teach people how not to get sick," he says. "That is, there
    should be a real emphasis on prevention and lifestyle adjustment."

    He also believes that pharmaceutical drugs often "caused too much harm."

    His focus on alternatives has put him at odds with many mainstream
    practitioners and academics.

    One persistent critic, Dr. Arnold Relman, an editor emeritus of the New
    England Journal of Medicine and professor emeritus at Harvard Medical
    School, said he's long disagreed with Weil because "he believes in miracles,
    at least he used to."

    "He believed in the healing power of thought, and going back to his earliest
    career, he's taken a position that usually flies in the face of science, and
    for that reason I've disagreed with him." But Relman does acknowledge that
    Weil has advocated some sensible things about diet and lifestyle.

    Still, Weil's advocacy of such positions as broccoli being a cancer
    treatment and reliance on anecdotal evidence from patients "can't stand the
    light of scientific examination," Relman said. If Weil's anti-aging stand is
    based on hard, scientific, objective evidence, he added, "then I applaud
    it."

    Weil said he decided to write about aging because of his concern about the
    rise of anti-aging medicine and said he hopes the book will trigger a
    national dialogue.

    "The most damaging perception out there is that the worth of human life
    diminishes with aging, and I've tried to make a case that aging brings its
    own rewards - that there can be an increase in the value of life, like fine
    wine," he says.

    He acknowledges that skillfully done cosmetic procedures can provide
    "pleasing results" and enhance quality of life. But he takes issue if the
    reason for surgery is to deny that aging happens.

    Weil's own appearance, including his trademark full white beard and a bald
    head, help to underscore his own age, 63. He remains very active, though a
    casual, almost idyllic home setting helps offset the hectic pace that swirls
    around him. He is divorced, his teenage daughter is in boarding school and
    he's "involved in a relationship."

    A frequent guest on TV talk shows, he's committed to a 23-city, seven-week
    book tour, and he just appeared for the second time on the cover of Time
    magazine, which previously heralded him as one of the world's 100 most
    influential people. He works part time in the University of Arizona's
    integrative medicine program, writes a newsletter and a column for
    Prevention magazine. He offers vitamin, antioxidant and nutritional
    supplements, endorses skin care products and even pet foods on his Web site,
    http://www.drweil.com, while giving daily advice on healthy living.

    And he's just been sued over a five-year, $14 million deal, accused of
    failing to adequately market and promote an online pharmacy company as the
    exclusive distributor of his endorsed health care products. He called it a
    contract dispute.

    Weil has lived for 11 years on his 120-acre ranch. It's one of about 30
    "ranchettes," mostly 40-acre plots, carved out of the X-9 Ranch, once a
    historic cattle operation spread over 36,000 acres. Weil's property, set off
    behind a gated entrance, is the nowhere reached at the end of a three-mile
    rutted, tooth-jarring washboard dirt road.

    Weil, who is partial to shorts, sandals and loose-fitting Hawaiian-style
    sports shirts, lives in a comfortable but hardly lavish setting in what was
    the X-9's main ranch house, rebuilt after a 1938 fire. "I have lots of
    friends; I have my dogs, who are wonderful companions," he says about
    Rhodesian ridgebacks Jambo and Daisy.

    Large picture windows in his Mexican-tiled home look onto a patio and the
    Rincon Mountains. A spring-fed swimming pool sits on grounds dappled in
    shade by cottonwood, walnut and mesquite trees. There's also an outdoor
    garden and a large greenhouse. His various enterprises are run in nearby
    offices.

    Weil believes he's aging gracefully. "I think I'm doing a pretty good job. I
    keep very active. I like my body. I'm generally not so bad. I enjoy coming
    into my own as an elder."

    Some critics view him as a self-promoter and product huckster, but Weil says
    that all after-tax profits from his books and product sales go to his Weil
    Foundation to help fund his integrative medicine program.

    And Weil does have his medical supporters.

    Cardiologist Dr. Joseph Alpert of the University of Arizona, Weil's best
    friend from medical school, calls Weil a top leader in integrative medicine.
    "Has he brought credibility among physicians? Probably not. Has he brought
    credibility among patients? Definitely, yes. He's tremendously bright, an
    excellent communicator and a very good writer," Alpert said.

    Twenty-six American medical schools and three in Canada have integrative or
    alternative medicine programs, and the Congress, recognizing a growing
    public interest, created the National Center for Complementary and
    Alternative Medicine in 1999.

    "From what it's meant to the public, he (Weil) has been the father of
    integrative medicine," raising public awareness and interest through his
    down-to-earth, sensible writing style, said Dr. Richard Liebowitz, medical
    director of Duke University's Center for Integrative Medicine.

    But while Andrew Weil pushes a diet rich in nuts and olive oil, multigrain
    breads, soybeans and fresh, organic fruits, vegetables and fish, he's been
    known to indulge a sweet or two.

    On this day, it's a 20-pound peach pie sent by a friend and baked by Pam
    Rinella, who operates the mountaintop Mount Lemmon Cafe about 90 minutes
    from Weil's ranch.

    "I haven't had any of her pies in years," he says, eying the fruity treat.

    "That's a serious pie."

  2. C.Health said:

    By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET

    The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative and
    traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    aging, and why it is and should be healthy.

    In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging process,
    have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been leveled
    at Weil for years.

    Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    The NYTimes on Weil's resolute stance against anti-aging hucksterism:

    "A few days later, back in New York, the reporter happens upon a
    promotion for {Weil's new} Plantidote line of skin care products, at
    Macy's. A large photo of Dr. Weil is featured.

    "To optimize skin's defense against aging," a poster reads."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/garden/20weil.html

  3. Yes, one wonders why he doesn't just keep his mouth shut while peddling
    his own stuff.

    What he could have said is that "aging" is not a scientific term. One
    can do quite a bit to limit the damage that accumulates after the
    youth-associated hormone levels fall when one is in that 35-45 or so
    year old range. You can stop "inflammation" by avoiding dietary omega
    6 PUFAs (except in unavoidable trace amounts), for example. I think
    what happens to guys like this is that they pack their minds with a lot
    of information, but fail to think about an overall framework. Some
    herb, for example, might be "good" for "inflammation" but what about
    preventing it in the first place? That's why I post here, trying to
    get the word out that you want to limit excess biochemical activity in
    your body, especially the free radical mediated damage and dsyfunction
    that come with oxidative stress in a body packed with unsaturated fatty
    acids (and co-factors, like excess iron).

  4. "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    C.Health said:

    By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET

    The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative
    and
    traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    aging, and why it is and should be healthy.

    In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging
    process,
    have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been
    leveled
    at Weil for years.

    Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    The NYTimes on Weil's resolute stance against anti-aging hucksterism:

    "A few days later, back in New York, the reporter happens upon a
    promotion for {Weil's new} Plantidote line of skin care products, at
    Macy's. A large photo of Dr. Weil is featured.

    "To optimize skin's defense against aging," a poster reads."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/garden/20weil.html

    http://www.popfactor.com/tmftml/archives/001409.html

    JOYCE WADLER CRIES OUT FOR HELP, PART 43

    The Minor Fall, The Major Lift

    DON'T YOU KNOW THERE AIN'T NO DEVIL, THERE'S JUST GOD WHEN HE'S DRUNK

    Quoted message said:
  5. "montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, one wonders why he doesn't just keep his mouth shut

    One wonder why many people here don't do the same?

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,1115696,00.html

    Monday, Oct. 10, 2005
    Dr. Andrew Weil's Wellness Diet
    By DR. ANDREW WEIL

    OVERVIEW: Aim for variety, and include as much fresh food as possible in
    your diet. Minimize your consumption of processed and fast food. Eat an
    abundance of fruits and vegetables, and try to include carbohydrates, fat
    and protein in every meal. Most adults need to consume between 2,000 and
    3,000 calories a day. Women and smaller, less active people require fewer
    calories; men and larger, more active people need more calories. The
    distribution of calories you take in should be: 40% to 50% from
    carbohydrates, 30% from fat and 20% to 30% from protein.

    Carbohydrates

    On a 2,000-calorie-a-day diet, adult women should eat about 160 g to 200 g
    of carbohydrates daily. (Most of this should be in the form of less refined,
    less processed foods.)

    Adult men should eat about 240 g to 300 g of carbohydrates a day.

    REDUCE your consumption of foods made with wheat flour and sugar, especially
    bread and most packaged snack foods.

    Eat more whole grains (not whole-wheat-flour products), beans, winter
    squashes and sweet potatoes.

    Cook pasta al dente and eat it in moderation.

    AVOID products made with high-fructose corn syrup.

    Fat

    On a 2,000-calorie-a-day diet, 600 calories can come from fat--that is,
    about 67 g. This should be in a ratio of 1:2:1 of saturated to
    monounsaturated to polyunsaturated fat.

    REDUCE your intake of saturated fat by eating less butter, cream, cheese and
    other full-fat dairy products, unskinned chicken, fatty meats and products
    made with coconut and palm-kernel oils.

    Use extra-virgin olive oil as a main cooking oil. If you want a
    neutral-tasting oil, use expeller-pressed organic canola oil. High-oleic
    versions of sunflower and safflower oil are also acceptable.

    AVOID regular safflower and sunflower oils, corn oil, cottonseed oil and
    mixed vegetable oils.

    STRICTLY AVOID margarine, vegetable shortening and all products listing them
    as ingredients. Strictly avoid all products made with partially hydrogenated
    oils of any kind.

    Include in your diet avocados and nuts, especially walnuts, cashews and
    almonds and nut butters made from them.

    For omega-3 fatty acids, eat salmon (preferably wild--fresh or frozen--or
    canned sockeye), sardines, herring, black cod (sablefish, butterfish),
    omega-3 fortified eggs, hempseeds, flaxseeds and walnuts; or take a fish-oil
    supplement (see next page).

    Protein

    On a 2,000-calorie-a-day diet, your daily intake of protein should be
    between 80 g and 120 g. Eat less protein if you have liver or kidney
    problems, allergies or autoimmune disease.

    DECREASE your consumption of animal protein except for fish and reduced-fat
    dairy products.

    Eat more vegetable protein, especially from beans in general and soybeans in
    particular.

    Fiber

    Try to eat 40 g of fiber a day. You can achieve this by increasing your
    consumption of fruit, vegetables (especially beans) and whole grains.

    Ready-made cereals can be good fiber sources, but read labels to make sure
    they give you at least 4 g and preferably 5 g of bran per 1-oz. serving.

    Phytonutrients

    To get maximum natural protection against age-related diseases, eat a
    variety of fruits, vegetables and mushrooms.

    Choose fruits and vegetables from all parts of the color spectrum,
    especially berries, tomatoes, orange and yellow fruits, and dark leafy
    greens.

    Choose organic produce whenever possible. Learn which conventionally grown
    crops are most likely to carry pesticide residues, and avoid them.

    Eat cruciferous (cabbage-family) vegetables regularly.

    Include soy foods in your diet.

    Drink tea instead of coffee, especially good-quality white, green or oolong
    tea.

    If you drink alcohol, use red wine preferentially.

    Enjoy plain dark chocolate (with a minimum cocoa content of 70%) in
    moderation.

    Vitamins And Minerals

    The best way to obtain all your daily vitamins, minerals and micronutrients
    is by eating a diet high in fresh foods, with an abundance of fruits and
    vegetables.

    In addition, supplement your diet with this antioxidant cocktail:

    Vitamin C, 200 mg a day; vitamin E, 400 IUs of natural mixed tocopherols
    (d-alpha-tocopherol with other tocopherols or, better, a minimum of 80 mg of
    natural mixed tocopherols and tocotrienols).

    Selenium, 200 mcg of an organic (yeast-bound) form.

    Mixed carotenoids, 10,000 IUs to 15,000 IUs daily.

    In addition, take a daily multivitamin-multimineral supplement that provides
    at least 400 mcg of folic acid and at least 1,000 IUs of vitamin D. It
    should contain no iron and no preformed vitamin A (retinol).

    Take supplemental calcium, preferably as calcium citrate. Women need 1,200
    mg to 1,500 mg a day, depending on their dietary intake of this mineral; men
    should get no more than 1,200 mg of calcium a day from all sources.

    Other Dietary Supplements

    If you are not eating oily fish at least twice a week, take supplemental
    fish oil, 1 g to 2 g a day. Look for molecularly distilled products
    certified to be free of heavy metals and other contaminants.

    Talk to your doctor about going on low-dose aspirin therapy, 1 or 2 baby
    aspirins (81 mg or 162 mg) a day.

    If you are not regularly eating ginger and turmeric, consider taking them in
    supplemental form.

    Add coenzyme Q-10 to your daily regimen: 60 mg to 100 mg in a soft-gel form
    taken with your largest meal.

    If you are prone to metabolic syndrome, take alpha-lipoic acid, 100 mg to
    400 mg a day.

    Water

    Try to take 6 to 8 glasses of pure water or drinks that are mostly water
    (tea, very diluted fruit juice, sparkling water with lemon) every day.

    Use bottled water or get a home water purifier if your tap water tastes of
    chlorine or other contaminants.

    For more information, see healthyaging.com

  6. LadyLollipop said:


    "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    C.Health said:

    By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET

    The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative
    and
    traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    aging, and why it is and should be healthy.

    In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging
    process,
    have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been
    leveled
    at Weil for years.

    Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    The NYTimes on Weil's resolute stance against anti-aging hucksterism:

    "A few days later, back in New York, the reporter happens upon a
    promotion for {Weil's new} Plantidote line of skin care products, at
    Macy's. A large photo of Dr. Weil is featured.

    "To optimize skin's defense against aging," a poster reads."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/garden/20weil.html

    http://www.popfactor.com/tmftml/archives/001409.html

    JOYCE WADLER CRIES OUT FOR HELP, PART 43

    The Minor Fall, The Major Lift

    The baffled king composing Hallelujah.

    Great song, Jan. What has it to do with anything?

    Quoted message said:


    DON'T YOU KNOW THERE AIN'T NO DEVIL, THERE'S JUST GOD WHEN HE'S DRUNK

    Quoted message said:



    --
    Peter Bowditch aa #2243
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
    Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  7. Peter Bowditch said:
    LadyLollipop said:


    "fresh~horses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    C.Health wrote:
    > By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    > Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET
    >
    >
    >
    > The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative
    > and
    > traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    > book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    > aging, and why it is and should be healthy.
    >
    > In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    > from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging
    > process,
    > have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    > pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been
    > leveled
    > at Weil for years.
    >
    > Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    > message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    The NYTimes on Weil's resolute stance against anti-aging hucksterism:

    "A few days later, back in New York, the reporter happens upon a
    promotion for {Weil's new} Plantidote line of skin care products, at
    Macy's. A large photo of Dr. Weil is featured.

    "To optimize skin's defense against aging," a poster reads."

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/garden/20weil.html

    http://www.popfactor.com/tmftml/archives/001409.html

    JOYCE WADLER CRIES OUT FOR HELP, PART 43

    The Minor Fall, The Major Lift

    The baffled king composing Hallelujah.

    Great song, Jan. What has it to do with anything?

    You're not actually asking for relevance or coherence from La
    Lollipop?!

    A labour worthy of Sisyphus.

    Cathy

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:


    DON'T YOU KNOW THERE AIN'T NO DEVIL, THERE'S JUST GOD WHEN HE'S DRUNK

    Quoted message said:



    --
    Peter Bowditch aa #2243
    The Millenium Project http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles
    Australian Council Against Health Fraud http://www.acahf.org.au
    Australian Skeptics http://www.skeptics.com.au
    To email me use my first name only at ratbags.com

  8. LadyLollipop said:

    "montygram" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Yes, one wonders why he doesn't just keep his mouth shut

    One wonder why many people here don't do the same?

    Jan, why do always try to silence people? What is it about free speech
    that frightens you so much?

  9. Clearly, the body is designed to age and die. One needs not much more than
    to watch the life cycle of a pet dog. The dog goes through all the steps of
    the aging process, but at a much faster rate. Obviously, these changes are
    just programmed to happen faster.

    Someday they may find the keys to altering the human clock, but until then,
    most anti-aging efforts can be expected to be fruitless.

  10. I think most of Weil's recommendations make a lot of sense but his total
    calorie numbers seem very high. This quotes him as saying 2000-3000
    calories a day for adults with MORE for men and active people.

    As a 61-year old male who runs 2X a week and works out in a gym 2 or 3X, I
    can tell you if I ate that much, I would be fat. I keep my B.M.I. just
    under 20 by consuming around 2000 calories a day. I imagine that is closer
    to what most men, especially the over 40's and the non-extreme-exercisers,
    need to eat.

    Dr. Weil himself is a bit plump; we can see why.

    mack
    austin

    Quoted message said:

    Dr. Andrew Weil's Wellness Diet
    By DR. ANDREW WEIL

    OVERVIEW: Aim for variety, and include as much fresh food as possible in
    your diet. Minimize your consumption of processed and fast food. Eat an
    abundance of fruits and vegetables, and try to include carbohydrates, fat
    and protein in every meal. Most adults need to consume between 2,000 and
    3,000 calories a day. Women and smaller, less active people require fewer
    calories; men and larger, more active people need more calories. The
    distribution of calories you take in should be: 40% to 50% from
    carbohydrates, 30% from fat and 20% to 30% from protein.

  11. C.Health said:

    By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET

    The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative and
    traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    aging, and why it is and should be healthy.

    In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging process,
    have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been leveled
    at Weil for years.

    Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    COMMENT:
    How about slowing it down a bit?

    Quoted message said:

    "I think those are very wrong ideas," he says during a recent interview at
    his Vail ranch, about 30 miles southeast of Tucson. "Aging is a universal
    natural process, and I think if you set yourself up in opposition to it,
    you're in a very wrong relationship with nature."

    What nonsense. It used to be a universal natural process that people
    died in childbirth if the baby was too big, and spent their lives
    chained to the Earth because gravity was too strong to resist. The
    whole point of being human is to resist "universal natural processes"
    (or at least make the attempt). We have no way of knowing which
    processes are universal until we try to change them. And as for
    natural, there's nothing more natural than dying before you get to be a
    senior citizen. The idea that most people can expect to make it to 65
    is VERY recent in human history.

    Quoted message said:

    Throughout his career, Weil has championed herbal remedies, acupuncture,
    osteopathy, cranial therapy, hypnotherapy and nutritional approaches to
    wellness, as well as traditional medicine.

    COMMENT:

    And winked at homeopathy and refused to say anything bad about it. When
    it comes to alternative approaches, Weil never met one he had anything
    bad to say about. Except, it appears, caloric restriction and any
    therapy which attempts to be "anti-aging." What irony.

    SBH

  12. Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:


    COMMENT:
    How about slowing it down a bit?

    In liquid nitrogen?

  13. Mark Thorson said:
    Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:


    COMMENT:
    How about slowing it down a bit?

    In liquid nitrogen?

    That stops it pretty well, as any cell-culture person can tell you.

    What we'd like with anti-aging, is both to live and not break down. To
    have your cake and eat it too. It sounds outrageous, but so does
    walking on the moon or squirting a motion picture through a glass
    fiber. There don't seem to be any laws of physics that require aging.
    It's just a problem to be solved by application of technology. We lack
    immagination and craft, is all. These things come in time.

    I don't know what Andrew Weil's mental problem is. I suppose it's just
    that he's bald and plump and getting old, and can't resist making a
    virtue of necessity. I suppose it would irk him to admit that he's got
    a medical problem he has no clue how to solve. He makes a living as a
    health guru, remember. Gurus can't afford to fail, so it happens
    sometimes that they define their problems as non-problems.

    Hey, Dr. Weil! I too am getting old and can't figure out how to stop
    it or even how to slow it down very much. But would like to, if I
    could. There, that's not so hard, is it?

    SBH

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:


    What we'd like with anti-aging, is both to live and not break down. To
    have your cake and eat it too. It sounds outrageous, but so does
    walking on the moon or squirting a motion picture through a glass
    fiber. There don't seem to be any laws of physics that require aging.
    It's just a problem to be solved by application of technology. We lack
    immagination and craft, is all. These things come in time.

    How about the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

    Note that we're already doing at least twofold better than pretty much
    every other mammal, including other primates.

  15. "Sbharris[atsign]ix.netcom.com" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    C.Health said:

    By ARTHUR H. ROTSTEIN, Associated Press Writer
    Sun Oct 23, 2:12 PM ET

    The best-known practitioner of integrative medicine, melding alternative
    and
    traditional approaches, has gone mainstream. Dr. Andrew Weil, whose 10th
    book came out Oct. 18, intends to raise the public consciousness about
    aging, and why it is and should be healthy.

    In his view, advocates of anti-aging medicine, who tout regimens ranging
    from growth hormone to Botox and cosmetic surgery to stop the aging
    process,
    have become the 21st century equivalent of snake-oil purveyors - long on
    pitch and short on scientific substance. It's a charge that's been
    leveled
    at Weil for years.

    Weil calls anti-aging advocates "false prophets who are putting out a
    message that aging is reversible or that we can stop it."

    COMMENT:
    How about slowing it down a bit?

    Quoted message said:

    "I think those are very wrong ideas," he says during a recent interview
    at
    his Vail ranch, about 30 miles southeast of Tucson. "Aging is a universal
    natural process, and I think if you set yourself up in opposition to it,
    you're in a very wrong relationship with nature."

    What nonsense. It used to be a universal natural process that people
    died in childbirth if the baby was too big, and spent their lives
    chained to the Earth because gravity was too strong to resist. The
    whole point of being human is to resist "universal natural processes"

    All of them?

    Quoted message said:

    (or at least make the attempt). We have no way of knowing which
    processes are universal until we try to change them.

    LOL! Right, it's "natural" not to have light
    after the sun sets.

    Quoted message said:

    And as for
    natural, there's nothing more natural than dying before you get to be a
    senior citizen. The idea that most people can expect to make it to 65
    is VERY recent in human history.

    Quoted message said:

    Throughout his career, Weil has championed herbal remedies, acupuncture,
    osteopathy, cranial therapy, hypnotherapy and nutritional approaches to
    wellness, as well as traditional medicine.

    COMMENT:

    And winked at homeopathy and refused to say anything bad about it. When
    it comes to alternative approaches, Weil never met one he had anything
    bad to say about. Except, it appears, caloric restriction and any
    therapy which attempts to be "anti-aging." What irony.

    If it works, then it isn't "natural".
    Actually, calorie restriction is natural.
    During periods of low food supply (it
    used to happen, can you believe it),
    the organism ages more slowly--perhaps
    so that it survives long enough to
    procreate when the food comes back.

    GWC

  16. "Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:


    COMMENT:
    How about slowing it down a bit?

    In liquid nitrogen?

    He said "slowing it down a bit",
    not stopping it altogether.

    George

  17. Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:


    What we'd like with anti-aging, is both to live and not break down. To
    have your cake and eat it too. It sounds outrageous, but so does
    walking on the moon or squirting a motion picture through a glass
    fiber. There don't seem to be any laws of physics that require aging.
    It's just a problem to be solved by application of technology. We lack
    immagination and craft, is all. These things come in time.

    How about the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

    Note that we're already doing at least twofold better than pretty much
    every other mammal, including other primates.

    COMMENT:

    Sure, but not as nearly as well (metabolically) as birds or bats. There
    are bats with twice the metabolic rate of mice, that still live 20
    years by comparison with a mouse life span of 2 to 5 years (depending
    on species). And parrots seem to live about as long as people, despite
    a much higher metabolism. Wings are a nice trick for avoiding
    predation, so apparently mother nature does a more careful repair job
    on her winged warm-blooded critters, because it's worth it.

    As for the second law, there are, after all, lots of existence proofs
    of animals that are effectively ageless (note that I don't say
    immortal). Like aspens or anything that reproduces by contiguous
    cloning. And our germ line itself is ageless (shows no signs of wearing
    out after millions of years)-- it's only individuals which die. If the
    second law applied to all this, it would as easily apply to the human
    genome. But as noted, it's all an open system, so randomness and error
    can get dumped as needed into infrared energy, and off into space.

    IOW, the second law doesn't apply because neither planets nor people
    are closed systems. Building an organism out of simple (food) molecules
    is a neg-entropic process--- as is evolution itself! It would all
    violate the second law IF you didn't pay any attention to the total
    energy flow and the TOTAL system. But the sun is there, supplying
    energy had high effective temperature, which is radiated away at low
    effective temperature. We're can "run up" because the sun is running
    down. We dump entropy into the heat we make in metabolism, and in
    theory if you put your extra entropy there, you can keep copying and
    repairing and building, till the universe itself runs out of usable
    energy.

    Copies of copies don't even need to be degraded. Consider digital
    recordings, and records made with triple check-sum systems. Error
    correction systems for copying (which of course take energy to
    maintain, and need an entropy-dump to run) can be as perfect as they
    need to be. Mutation happens not because it has to, but because ether
    the system is "good enough" or (perhaps) even because it might be
    adaptive to species to have a small mutation rate. Physics per se
    doesn't require one.

    SBH

  18. Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:

    What we'd like with anti-aging, is both to live and not break down. To
    have your cake and eat it too. It sounds outrageous, but so does
    walking on the moon or squirting a motion picture through a glass
    fiber. There don't seem to be any laws of physics that require aging.
    It's just a problem to be solved by application of technology. We lack
    immagination and craft, is all. These things come in time.

    How about the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

    Note that we're already doing at least twofold better than pretty much
    every other mammal, including other primates.


    Birds do much better than humans. Also, if we had an organ that generates
    ATP and sends it to the rest of the body and accepts AMP, there would be
    no oxidative damage.

  19. Sbharrisatsignix.netcom.com said:


    As for the second law, there are, after all, lots of existence
    proofs of animals that are effectively ageless (note that I
    don't say immortal). Like aspens or anything that reproduces
    by contiguous cloning.

    What animals are ageless? The aspens I'm familiar with
    are trees.

  20. Tonnere de Brest!! said:

    [email hidden] wrote:

    Quoted message said:

    Birds do much better than humans. Also, if we had an organ that generates
    ATP and sends it to the rest of the body and accepts AMP, there would be
    no oxidative damage.

    Except to the organ making the ATP! Providing you kept the oxygen away
    from everything else....

    ATP's pretty inefficient for fuel/energy transfer, as it weighs 100
    times more than the equivalent amount of oxygen or glucose. Instead of
    1 gram per liter glucose in your blood, you'd have to have 100 grams
    per liter ATP to represent the same chemical potential energy. And the
    same for AMP. Could you even prepare a 10% solution of AMP?

    Perhaps glucose isn't fair, since we extract such a tiny portion of
    what's in the blood on each circulatory pass. You run on maybe 1 mg/L
    of extracted oxygen, so that's only 100 mg ATP per liter you'd need to
    extract on each capillary pass. But ATP will never diffuse as well as
    oxygen, so that's not fair, either.

    In summary, I don't know if this is even physically possible. It would
    represent a total and radical body redesign, though, even if it is.

    SBH

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