Weights training to increase max sprint power

http://www.cyclingforums.com/t126133.html

mickthomas said:

Now that its the end of season I am thinking of a program to help increase both my max instantanious power output (my jump) and also my 5 second power in preparation for next year.

Is weight training any benefit and if so what type of training is required?

Are you a track sprinter?

Stay on the bike. Sprint. Sprint a lot. That's all you need to do.

Roadie_scum said:

Are you a track sprinter?

No, I want to increase my "road sprint" power i.e. the one that you typically start from 25+ mph

mickthomas said:

No, I want to increase my "road sprint" power i.e. the one that you typically start from 25+ mph

In which case, you won't want to be training with weights. There are plenty of on the bike workouts to increase neuromuscular power. I would recommend focusing on them.

velomanct said:

Stay on the bike. Sprint. Sprint a lot. That's all you need to do.

Again.

Roadie_scum said:

In which case, you won't want to be training with weights. There are plenty of on the bike workouts to increase neuromuscular power. I would recommend focusing on them.

Can you be a bit more specific regarding which workouts. In particular I am interesting in improving my initial jump.

mickthomas said:

Can you be a bit more specific regarding which workouts. In particular I am interesting in improving my initial jump.

This is a good session for improving your jump:

Try rolling off a hill so you are already at speed without pedaling too hard, then when you hit the bottom, sprint all out for 10-15 (max) seconds at a fairly high cadence. Rest/recovery pace for strictly more than 5 minutes, anywhere up to 10 minutes, then repeat. Do sprints until you experience ~10% drop in the power you are achieving for the session. One way to monitor (if you have a powertap) is to set a new interval each time you sprint and then check the max power whilst still in interval mode. Do up to about 10 sprints in a session.

Also, if you have a powertap, don't be overly concerned with small variations in peak power. Because gear selection and other influences of drivetrain loss can affect power readings at high wattages, look for trends across sessions or gross changes, not the fine detail (10W here or there between sprints).

See how you go with this and let us know if you need more ideas.

Be creative.
-Aim for that real estate sign 200 meters up the road.
-See that sharp 30 foot rise in elevation up the road? Explode right before you hit it and follow through over the top.
-Get a rabbit (passing car), and imagine closing the gap they get on you as they pass. (works best with ~40mph traffic)
-Ride with another guy and play around, make it fun.

Or as roadiescum said, do more structured sessions. Some days do overgeared jumps, other days do undergeared sprints. Downhill, uphill, standing starts. The key is to accustom your body to sprinting, which it likely knows nothing about, since most road cyclists are endurance minded, not explosive minded. You can make big gains very quickly because you are likely very untrained to begin with, concerning such explosive efforts.

I'm going to stir the pot here and say that to summarily dismiss using weights to improve sprint power is incorrect. The anecdotal evidence (i.e. track sprinters) demonstrates that sprint power and weight lifting power have some correlation. Now the question is are you willing to trade some endurance in order to achieve that potentially greater power?

I'm not an expert and I don't know if it's possible "to have your cake and eat it too", meaning I don't know if an increase in ultimate strength via weightlifting can be accomplished without losing some endurance fitness. However, what doesn't work for one person may work for you - it may not, but you don't know unless you give it a try. Besides, to a great extent the variability in magnitude of adaptation to a training stimulus and performance is due to genetics. It is possible your genetics will allow weightlifting to beneficial for you where for others it is not...

Flame away, if you may...😄

tonyzackery said:

I'm going to stir the pot here and say that to summarily dismiss using weights to improve sprint power is incorrect. The anecdotal evidence (i.e. track sprinters) demonstrates that sprint power and weight lifting power have some correlation.

With track sprinters, it isn't anecdotal.

Quoted post said:

Now the question is are you willing to trade some endurance in order to achieve that potentially greater power?

Not if you are a road cyclist who understands the physiological demands of performing well in the sport.

Quoted post said:

I'm not an expert and I don't know if it's possible "to have your cake and eat it too", meaning I don't know if an increase in ultimate strength via weightlifting can be accomplished without losing some endurance fitness.

No

Quoted post said:

However, what doesn't work for one person may work for you - it may not, but you don't know unless you give it a try.

You can know if you look at the evidence.

Quoted post said:

Besides, to a great extent the variability in magnitude of adaptation to a training stimulus and performance is due to genetics. It is possible your genetics will allow weightlifting to beneficial for you where for others it is not...

True false non sequitur

Quoted post said:

Flame away, if you may...😄

Not really a flame. 🙄

Roadie_scum said:

With track sprinters, it isn't anecdotal.

Not if you are a road cyclist who understands the physiological demands of performing well in the sport.

No

You can know if you look at the evidence.

True false non sequitur

Not really a flame. 🙄

And your point is...?

tonyzackery said:

And your point is...?

To reply to your post. I think that's how these things work right?

My point is that weights training for road sprinting isn't effective or intelligent. Weights training for sprint track events is both effective and intelligent (if it is appropriately constructed). The OP asked about road sprinting.

Roadie_scum said:

My point is that weights training for road sprinting isn't effective or intelligent. Weights training for sprint track events is both effective and intelligent (if it is appropriately constructed).

So, what about a points racer who can't count on taking a lap, or a criterium specialist who doesn't have a great lead-out train, and thus must depend more on their neuromuscular power? 😄

OP: Check your overall fitness also. Those who make it to the line in the best condition often sprint the best.

Spunout said:

OP: Check your overall fitness also. Those who make it to the line in the best condition often sprint the best.

Yes, I aware of that ... and positioning, timing etc but what I want is a form of training that increases my jump and 5 sec power in a road race scenario. I use a powertap so I can easily monitor progress or lack of. The info I have so far is that weights are useless and I should just practice sprinting in a structured and unstructured manner on the road.

acoggan said:

So, what about a points racer who can't count on taking a lap, or a criterium specialist who doesn't have a great lead-out train, and thus must depend more on their neuromuscular power? 😄

Well, that might be an open question. 🙂

My guess would be no weights for the crit guy:

-Interference effect
-Ability to train NMP on bike
-Still primarily aerobic demands

(And if you don't have a good leadout won't you do more work and be more reliant on your aerobic system?)

The points guy:

Hmmmm... I have definitely ridden points races where it would be possible to win with a high NMP/AWC and low aerobic fitness. I would have to know more about the typical demands of the event at the level at which the athlete was training. At the highest level I seem to see endurance trained riders (roadies without a lot of hypertrophy) dominate. At the club/amateur level it might be different.

So what do you think Andy? :p

Roadie_scum said:

To reply to your post. I think that's how these things work right?

My point is that weights training for road sprinting isn't effective or intelligent. Weights training for sprint track events is both effective and intelligent (if it is appropriately constructed). The OP asked about road sprinting.

Uhhh, the OP asked if weight training would be of any benefit to his road sprinting (jump, 5 sec. anaerobic power, and ultimate top speed - anaerobic power). IMO, I think it would be of some benefit. However, IMO I think there would be a cost to his endurance fitness. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, in other words...

mickthomas said:

Yes, I aware of that ... and positioning, timing etc but what I want is a form of training that increases my jump and 5 sec power in a road race scenario. I use a powertap so I can easily monitor progress or lack of. The info I have so far is that weights are useless and I should just practice sprinting in a structured and unstructured manner on the road.

As Andy rightfully points out, weights may not be strictly useless in all situations. The question is your event length and the determinants of success associated with your event. It is unlikely (ie close to zero probability) that if you are primarily a road racer that an understanding of these factors will mean you should train with weights.

It is possible to construct more complicated scenarios. Then we have to wait for the great Cog to chip in again. 🙂