Cycling Training · Public discussion

weights/plyometrics/on bike workouts

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Cycling Training
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16 August 2004
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18 August 2004
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velomanct
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  1. as the season comes to an end in a month or two i am going to start weights to supplement my bike training(goal of increased sprint power). i also want to include plyometrics.

    is there a specific routine concerning weight lifting, plyometrics and on the bike workouts i should follow to maximize my gains? should i be doing all three of these workouts in the same session, which order?

    i am just looking for some general advice on how i can integrate all 3 types of training for best results, this 'off' season.

  2. [quote="velomanct"]as the season comes to an end in a month or two i am going to start weights to supplement my bike training(goal of increased sprint power). i also want to include plyometrics.

    is there a specific routine concerning weight liftingQUOTE]

    use the heaviest weights possible, and gain the most amount of extra lean mass you can. of course, if you're an endurance racing cyclist (e.g., RR, TT, MTB, track endurance) you'll be shooting yourself in the foot, but your sprinting will improve!

    ric

  3. I would recommend the following exercises:

    (1) Standard power cleans (5 - 6 sets of 8 - 10 reps)
    (2) Deadlift (5 sets of 8 reps)
    (3) Squats (optional) (3 sets of 15 reps)
    (4) Situps (4 sets of 15 reps)

    The idea behind this is you shouldn't gain excessive muscle from these exercises but you should gain a touch more weight and more power for grabbing the handlebars on climbing e.t.c. The deadlifts should help the lower back and toughen it up for extended periods on a bike. The squats will also build the lumbar region but they won't develop climbing strength specifically (different kind of muscle contraction).

    The problem is how to recuperate from all of this.

    Others riders may be able to offer a more cycling-specific routine than the above but I've always been a believer in power-cleans especially.

    velomanct said:

    as the season comes to an end in a month or two i am going to start weights to supplement my bike training(goal of increased sprint power). i also want to include plyometrics.

    is there a specific routine concerning weight lifting, plyometrics and on the bike workouts i should follow to maximize my gains? should i be doing all three of these workouts in the same session, which order?

    i am just looking for some general advice on how i can integrate all 3 types of training for best results, this 'off' season.

  4. Carrera said:

    I would recommend the following exercises:

    The idea behind this is you shouldn't gain excessive muscle from these exercises

    this is the opposite of what you want -- if you want to increase your sprinting via weights you need to gain as much muscle as possible -- it's the only way it can be 'transferred' to bike ability. i've pointed this out to you on numerous occasions.

    Quoted post said:


    but you should gain a touch more weight and more power for grabbing the handlebars on climbing e.t.c. The deadlifts should help the lower back and toughen it up for extended periods on a bike. The squats will also build the lumbar region but they won't develop climbing strength specifically (different kind of muscle contraction).

    they won't "develop climbing strength" specifically or not -- they won't have any benefit to climbing unless the hill is about 10-secs in duration

    ric

  5. Oops, I missed that he was a sprinter and took it he was referring to generalised fitness for cycling.
    For specialised sprinting I wouldn't really know what kind of auxiliary training should be done.

    ric_stern/RST said:

    this is the opposite of what you want -- if you want to increase your sprinting via weights you need to gain as much muscle as possible -- it's the only way it can be 'transferred' to bike ability. i've pointed this out to you on numerous occasions.

    they won't "develop climbing strength" specifically or not -- they won't have any benefit to climbing unless the hill is about 10-secs in duration

    ric

  6. velomanct said:

    as the season comes to an end in a month or two i am going to start weights to supplement my bike training(goal of increased sprint power). i also want to include plyometrics.

    is there a specific routine concerning weight lifting, plyometrics and on the bike workouts i should follow to maximize my gains? should i be doing all three of these workouts in the same session, which order?

    i am just looking for some general advice on how i can integrate all 3 types of training for best results, this 'off' season.


    thanks for your input, guys. yes, my main goal is to become a beast of a sprinter/kilo rider. i was wondering if i should do plyometrics before or after weight lifting? should i do big gear sprints imediately after weights/plyometrics to help with muscle memory?
    i know that i am significantly more explosive/stronger after a weight session, and it seems like it would be a good time to do bike work.
    also, is it important that i do high cadence work after weights to keep them from getting slow?

    i know there must be an ideal sequence for weights, plyometrics, and bike work, which will maximize my sprinting ability.

    this wednesday i will try track riding for the first time, i hope i remember to keep pedaling!

  7. [quote="ric_stern/RST"]

    velomanct said:

    as the season comes to an end in a month or two i am going to start weights to supplement my bike training(goal of increased sprint power). i also want to include plyometrics.

    is there a specific routine concerning weight liftingQUOTE]

    use the heaviest weights possible, and gain the most amount of extra lean mass you can. of course, if you're an endurance racing cyclist (e.g., RR, TT, MTB, track endurance) you'll be shooting yourself in the foot, but your sprinting will improve!

    ric




    100% correct.

    hit the gym hard and the track hard.
    squats, DLs, power cleans, bench press....all the good big compound movements.

    Have you got a track coach to do a program for your events?

  8. I just started wieght training today. I did leg presses, 3 sets of 15 @ 300lbs, then calf lifts, 3 sets of 15 @ 200lbs. I was just experimenting trying to figure out what to do, I think on wednesday when I go back i'll up the leg presses to 325lbs and do 5 sets, or 2 sets of 3 sets (6 sets). As for calves, ill probably keep the same weight but go to 5 or 6 sets as well. I haven't figured out what other excercises would be bineficial yet though.

    Any suggestions?

  9. aTmSpectre said:

    I just started wieght training today. I did leg presses, 3 sets of 15 @ 300lbs, then calf lifts, 3 sets of 15 @ 200lbs. I was just experimenting trying to figure out what to do, I think on wednesday when I go back i'll up the leg presses to 325lbs and do 5 sets, or 2 sets of 3 sets (6 sets). As for calves, ill probably keep the same weight but go to 5 or 6 sets as well. I haven't figured out what other excercises would be bineficial yet though.

    Any suggestions?

    ditch the leg press. It's an ego exercise with limited benefits.

    For legs, stick to:
    squats (standard, front, o/head or zercher....all good)
    stiff-legged deadlifts
    standing and seated calf raise, donkey raises

    Other great power-building exercises are:
    deadlifts (this is both a back and leg exercise and defintely one that should be in your routine for power)
    power cleans and hang cleans

  10. ed073 said:

    ditch the leg press. It's an ego exercise with limited benefits.

    For legs, stick to:
    squats (standard, front, o/head or zercher....all good)
    stiff-legged deadlifts
    standing and seated calf raise, donkey raises

    Other great power-building exercises are:
    deadlifts (this is both a back and leg exercise and defintely one that should be in your routine for power)
    power cleans and hang cleans


    I do'nt understand how the leg press is an ego exercise. It works the exact muscles that I need to work, and rather efficiently too. I like using machines because I can target really well.

  11. aTmSpectre said:

    I do'nt understand how the leg press is an ego exercise. It works the exact muscles that I need to work, and rather efficiently too. I like using machines because I can target really well.

    Because it's much easier to load up a sled with 800-1000lbs and pump out a few reps than go ATG with 300lbs on the squat bar. Also, poorly-performed leg presses can put great pressure on the lower spine.

    It's not that leg-presses are inherently "bad", just that you can get better, safer results from alternatives.

    read this....

    http://t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=400631

    and this

    http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0827.htm

  12. aTmSpectre said:

    I do'nt understand how the leg press is an ego exercise. It works the exact muscles that I need to work, and rather efficiently too. I like using machines because I can target really well.

    what event(s) are you training for?

  13. aTmSpectre said:

    I do'nt understand how the leg press is an ego exercise. It works the exact muscles that I need to work, and rather efficiently too. I like using machines because I can target really well.

    You could go back and forth between different experts; some would say the leg press is safer, others would say the squat is safer. Both are more than safe if performed properly. I personally prefer the leg press and have been doing a lot of weight on it for 5-6 years now with no adverse side effects, but I also do squats. Your best bet is to do a program where you alternate, one leg day do squats, the next leg day do leg press.

    If you are doing this for sprinting/track cycling your goal is going to be to gain lean muscle mass in your legs which can be trained to become cycling specific by different on-the-bike workouts. Squats are nice because they seem to work more muscles than the leg press and thus give a more complete workout, but the leg press is nice because you focus on a more specific muscle group. I also try to make everything as cycling specific as possible, so everything transfers over to cycling with the greatest amount of ease. When I put my feet up on the leg press I make sure they are the same distance apart as they are when pedaling, and I also use a rudimentary goiniometer to make sure the bend I come down to replicates the bend I get while pedaling on my track bike.

    Just remember to use proper technique, vary your workouts, and do some kind of periodized system. Don't just jump into efforts where you are doing 90 percent of your 1 rep max. Start off with some type of adaptation phase doing low weights and high reps, then transition into a hypertrophy phase (75% of 1rm, 3 sets of 8-10), then follow that by some kind of strength phase that uses lower reps and higher weights.

    In regards to the original question, the best bet is to get some kind of coach that can mix everything together for you. Everybody is different and what works for me might end up killing you, or what works for me might be too easy for you. My body reacts pretty well to weights, but I know some people who just get killed by it. I remember 4 years ago or so when I was racing mountain bikes at a high level, I was training over 20 hours a week and lifting 5 hours a week (this was back when weight training was all the rage, and I currently wouldn’t recommend it for endurance cycling). My body was okay with it, but I knew guys who would burn out if they did a similar workout. Just like a friend of mine who would train over 30 hours a week, whereas I could never train that many hours, even when my sole focus in life was road racing. All I am trying to say is that everyone is different and you need a coach who can tailor a program to your needs and abilities.

  14. ed073 said:

    100% correct.

    LOL! i didn't realise i coached world class track sprinters. thanks for the advice :eek:

  15. velomanct said:

    thanks for your input, guys. yes, my main goal is to become a beast of a sprinter/kilo rider. i was wondering if i should do plyometrics before or after weight lifting? should i do big gear sprints imediately after weights/plyometrics to help with muscle memory?
    i know that i am significantly more explosive/stronger after a weight session, and it seems like it would be a good time to do bike work.
    also, is it important that i do high cadence work after weights to keep them from getting slow?

    i know there must be an ideal sequence for weights, plyometrics, and bike work, which will maximize my sprinting ability.

    this wednesday i will try track riding for the first time, i hope i remember to keep pedaling!

    if you're wanting to become a track sprinter there's little advice available online - due to it being such a specialist event. in any case such a programme is best dealt with by a coach, and i'd recommend that you seek out a coach who has coached this event before.

    if you contact me, [email hidden], i offer coaching in this discipline,

    ric

  16. ric_stern/RST said:

    LOL! i didn't realise i coached world class track sprinters. thanks for the advice :eek:


    he he!!!

    there's a job waiting for you at the Kryatskaloe track alongside Alexander Kusnetsov!!

  17. ed073 said:

    he he!!!

    there's a job waiting for you at the Kryatskaloe track alongside Alexander Kusnetsov!!

    is it dry there? i'm getting just a little sick of the rain here...!

  18. aTmSpectre said:

    I do'nt understand how the leg press is an ego exercise. It works the exact muscles that I need to work, and rather efficiently too. I like using machines because I can target really well.

    It's interesting that the leg press can be bad for the lower back when it's
    done incorrectly by not having the lower back pressing into the seat. As
    this is a similar technique to how the leg muscles etc are used in cycling
    but of course with a lot less pressure being used, it demonstrates how the
    natural pedalling technique can have a bad effect on the lower back and
    cause all that back pain and injury because when cycling there is nothing
    to support the lower back. It is only by switching to a completely different
    method of applying the power to the pedals while at the same time having
    the lower back in the same safe state as that used by weightlifters that all
    lower back pain/injury risks can be avoided when cycling. Linear pedalling, in
    which you the muscles in the same way as when sliding on any slippery
    surface and where direct downward pedal pressure is never used, has all
    the answers.

  19. ric_stern/RST said:

    if you're wanting to become a track sprinter there's little advice available online - due to it being such a specialist event. in any case such a programme is best dealt with by a coach, and i'd recommend that you seek out a coach who has coached this event before.

    if you contact me, [email hidden], i offer coaching in this discipline,

    ric


    my team head coach, who has coached a lot of good cyclists(some world champions) over the last 30 years is taking me to t-town tomorrow. i will likely get a training program from him.

    thanks for the offer

  20. velomanct said:

    my team head coach, who has coached a lot of good cyclists(some world champions) over the last 30 years is taking me to t-town tomorrow. i will likely get a training program from him.

    thanks for the offer

    didn't realise you currently had a coach, wasn't trying to poach! just make sure he has experience of track sprint and kilo, that latter is possibly more likely to suit you

    ric

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