Weight of GRR

I have a Ti Rush ... it weighs in the mid 30s with fairing, kickstand and fenders. A truly great
bike but heavy.

My Volae Team will be delivered tomorrow and I should know after 2 weeks riding it exclusively if
it's: 1) a stablemate or 2) successor to the GRR Ti Rush

By the way, the Sabre R-65 has significantly lower quality components than the Volae Team. The Volae
Team also has equal or better components than the Bacchetta Aero (except for the Aero's titanium
frameset) and the Volae weighs only 2 pounds more than the Aero, 24 versus 22. Plus it appears the
Vision may be going out of business.
--
Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Donald Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My GRR weighs in at 33lbs with only extras being a small seat bag and fairing. Any suggestions for
lighter seat, fork/handlebar or other options to lighten the bike. Love the bike but the weight
climbing hills on long rides takes a toll. Considering a Volae or Sabre as options but hate to
think about giving up GRR, it's a great bike. Thanks, Donald

Donald Wheatley said:

My GRR weighs in at 33lbs with only extras being a small seat bag and fairing. Any suggestions for
lighter seat, fork/handlebar or other options to lighten the bike. Love the bike but the weight
climbing hills on long rides takes a toll. Considering a Volae or Sabre as options but hate to
think about giving up GRR, it's a great bike. Thanks, Donald

Donald,

Wake up and smell the Calfee. [1] Sorry for the bad humor. 😉

In case you were wondering, the Ti-GRR offers only a small weight savings over the
standard bike. [2]

[1] <http://www.calfeedesign.com/stiletto.shtml>
[2] If the titanium alloy version of the bike is the Ti-Rush, should not the aluminium version be
the Al-Rush and the steel version the Fe-Rush?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

Donald Wheatley said:

My GRR weighs in at 33lbs with only extras being a small seat bag and fairing. Any suggestions for
lighter seat, fork/handlebar or other options to lighten the bike. Love the bike but the weight
climbing hills on long rides takes a toll. Considering a Volae or Sabre as options but hate to
think about giving up GRR, it's a great bike.

Okay, I just weighted my bike, and now I'm depressed.

My GRR, first day, with fairing mounting hardware, lightweight front wheel, Boone TI cranks and BB,
cool-back seat, 1/2 length bars: ~24-25 lbs

Same bike with Trans-It aluminum rear rack, large cat eye flashing rear light, removed chain idler,
empty aerotrunk, Cat eye Astrale 8 computer, Zziper experimenter fairing, free-form fashion
bodysock: ~36-37 lbs

I can't believe I added 11 lbs worth of [censored]! Here are some things I plan to do to reduce
the weight:

- Cut quite a bit of extra plastic from the fairing. The experimenter fairing comes with a lot more
material than needed. I've already cut a lot of it out, but there is still a lot more that can be
removed. I may even go all the way, and replace the fairing with a Markham/Calfee carbon fairing
(a bit expensive).

- Replace seat with a Cobra. Easy racers sells refurbished Cobra seats for 100-125 dollars.

- Remove rear rack and aerotrunk, and build my own lightweight bodysock mount, plus add a small bag
somewhere. I'll go shopping for some lightweight tubes this week.

- Maybe replace rear Sun ME14A wheel with an American Classic Sprint
350. Not sure about this one yet. The sun is a good strong wheel, and the thought of spending 350
bucks to save about 150 grams doesn't quite appeal to me.

- Once the chain needs to be replaced, I'll go for a SRAM PC-89R hollow pin.

- My girlfriend recently bought that south beach diet book. Maybe I should start reading it.... ;-)

Cheers Joao "11lbs overweight bike, 15lbs overweight body" de Souza

[email hidden] (Donald Wheatley) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

My GRR weighs in at 33lbs with only extras being a small seat bag and

I am being serious and not sarcastic.

When someone asks about lightning the bike, I first suggest, how about lightning the rider first.

I've taken off 50 pounds since I got my EZ-1 Lite 1300 miles ago.

"Peter M Spirito" skrev...

Quoted message said:

I am being serious and not sarcastic.

When someone asks about lightning the bike, I first suggest, how about lightning the rider first.

I've taken off 50 pounds since I got my EZ-1 Lite 1300 miles ago.

Way to go but I'm not sure I would look good weighing 126 lbs since I'm 6' 3" tall. ;-) Dragging my
heavy TE-clone up hills is good training I suppose. Still I'm looking forward to my VK2-frame
although I'll miss the VK1. Carbon is sweet.

Mikael

Mikael Seierup said:

... Carbon is sweet.

Mikael,

Better you than me doing the taste testing on carbon! Mmmmmmh, graphite. 😉

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

I can give you a few suggestions - these are NOT cheap, though - I'll leave you to evaluate the
cost-effectiveness of the measures - anytime you start doing a lot of gram counting the price gets
steep quick.

1. First and cheapest way is to change the seat from koolback to Cobra. I don't know if it's
possible to get hold of the 'Cobra Lite' seat Freddy is advertising as an option for the
Stiletto, but that would be something to look into. If you could figure out how to mount a mesh
seat (like a Lightning or Organic Engines), that would probably help - but I don't know how to
do this. Adding a Cobra is cheap and works and sheds at least a pound. But it's less
comfortable (albeit it is great for pushing into on long climbs).

2. Light wheels. Velocity Thracian 406 front wheel is a good strong light front wheel. On the back
I've used AmClassic 420 24-spoke, and also a 28-spoke overbuilt Zip 404 tubular. The latter
gets real light, because of the weight savings with tubular tires. I use a Tufo 23c tire with
sealant in it prophylactically, and it's at least as reliable as any clincher.

3. Replace headset with ultra-light one. High cost, small weight savings. But I'd do it anyway -
love those Chris King headsets.

4. Cut off any length from handlebars you don't need. Possibly go to bar-end shifter
brake-lever combo?

5. Put an 2002 XTR derailleur on the rear and XTR titanium cassette on the wheel.

The following two items assume you're using a body sock/rack/ER tail hardware combo:

6. Replace your heavy Super Zzipper with karl Abbe's new 'Extreme Zzipper' fairing in .060
thickness. Much lighter.

7. Use Terracyle's/ERRC's 'Sok-It' hardware (good luck getting one - they're all sold out), and
ditch your rear rack.

8. Get rid of fenders.

9. Run brake calipers instead of V-Brakes. This assumes 451 front wheel, though.

10. Stelvio's on front and rear. If you're already running Stelvio's and want lighter, consider
Conti 406 on front - slower but lighter tire.

There's probably lots of things, but the main thing is just stripping your bike down to a minimum.
Supposedly WoundUp cycles is doing a 451 carbon fork, but I doubt that it is tall enough and enough
rake to work well on GRR - you might call them and see if they intend to do a replacement fork for
this bike.

"Donald Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My GRR weighs in at 33lbs with only extras being a small seat bag and fairing. Any suggestions for
lighter seat, fork/handlebar or other options to lighten the bike. Love the bike but the weight
climbing hills on long rides takes a toll. Considering a Volae or Sabre as options but hate to
think about giving up GRR, it's a great bike. Thanks, Donald

Tom Sherman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... <snip>

Quoted message said:

[1] <http://www.calfeedesign.com/stiletto.shtml>
[2] If the titanium alloy version of the bike is the Ti-Rush, should not the aluminium version be
the Al-Rush and the steel version the Fe-Rush?

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

What's it all about, Al-Fe?

(Heck- it's only a month 'til New Year's... maybe I'll Ti one one.)

Jeff Wills - Not of This Solar System

joeg said:

I can give you a few suggestions - these are NOT cheap, though - I'll leave you to evaluate the
cost-effectiveness of the measures - anytime you start doing a lot of gram counting the price gets
steep quick....

I believe [1] that extra-light Easy Racers handlebars are available. There has also been a rumor of
a titanium alloy fork, but I do not know if that has ever made it into production.

[1] At least I was informed so by an Easy Racers owner who claimed to have them on his bike.

Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter M Spirito

Quoted message said:

I am being serious and not sarcastic.

When someone asks about lightning the bike, I first suggest, how about lightning the rider first.

Good advice, always. BUT...

If you don't think that lightening the bike makes a difference, stick two or three bricks in your
seat bag the next time you go riding. You'll notice it...whether you weigh 125 or 275.

Remember, body weight is easier to carry because it's uniformly distributed.

My own threshold of weight-weenieness ends at 100 grams, which is (very) roughly 1/4 pound. I'll
spend money to save that much.

In article said:

Okay, I just weighted my bike, and now I'm depressed.

Hi, Joao.

Weight weenieness strikes us all sooner or later!

I think if you look at individual weights you'll find that the two big bad items are your fairing
and the Aerotrunk.

Here's a good way to save some weight: DON'T buy a bag made for bicycles. They tend to be much
heavier than they need to be. Go to a fabric store and buy some light ripstop nylon. Then get hold
of some cord and grommets. Sew up your own bag.

You may recall seeing the blue bag I've got slung on my Pharobike. I made it in 15 minutes to fit my
water bladder and flat kit. It weighs something like one or two ounces.

If you don't want to do that, just get a stuff sack from a camping store.

Here's another way of dealing with the issue:

Configure your bike the way you need it for that day. Why lug the fairing around all the time if
you're going to be riding in heavy traffic? Why carry the Aerotrunk if you're not going to put
anything in it?

Next time you see Franny, pick up her trike. She's a believer in being prepared for every
contingency, all the time. The thing must weigh 55 pounds, no kidding.

A standard large Rotator Pursuit weighs in at 21 pounds!!!!!!! With 54 speeds. 21" low gear and 150"
top gear, nice spacing between all gears. Probably lightest seat on the market at 2 pounds including
a fabulous, shock cord cushioning system.

They have be built 2 pounds lighter by mixing and matching components. Example: TA cranks are 1/2
pound lighter then Durace cranks.

Rotator Tigers are about 1 pound lighter then a Pursuit but test slightly slower on coastdown hill.

Pursuit is nice climber, good at the track too. Speedy

Donald Wheatley said:

My GRR weighs in at 33lbs with only extras being a small seat bag and fairing. Any suggestions for
lighter seat, fork/handlebar or other options to lighten the bike. Love the bike but the weight
climbing hills on long rides takes a toll. Considering a Volae or Sabre as options but hate to
think about giving up GRR, it's a great bike. Thanks, Donald

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S. Delaire 'Rotatorrecumbent said:

A standard large Rotator Pursuit weighs in at 21 pounds!!!!!!!

Hey Steve.

One thing I've been thinking of doing on my GRR to add speed and save weight, is to build a zote
foam version of the Rotator fairing. I would also have to build it a little more arched rather than
flat on top of your fairing, in order to fit my handlebars. My current bars have a set of "aerobars"
brazed in, and the fairing would have to curve around it.

Is there a reason why you designed the fairing with that flat area on top? When I rode my friend's
GRR with the rotator fairing I was amazed at the speed increase, but a little annoyed at all the
wind that the flat fairing pushed onto my face.

And since this entire thread started as a weight discussion, what is the weight of those fairings? I
know that the carbon fiber is quite a bit lighter than the kevlar one, but I would be interested to
know their respective weights.

Cheers.

Andrew Douglas said:

Weight weenieness strikes us all sooner or later!

Maybe I'll get a haircut ;-)

Quoted message said:

Sew up your own bag.

And in case I can't sew? ;-)

Besides, those little bike bags have zippers, which come pretty handy.

Quoted message said:

Configure your bike the way you need it for that day. Why lug the fairing around all the time if
you're going to be riding in heavy traffic? Why carry the Aerotrunk if you're not going to put
anything in it?

The fairing is a major production to install and remove every day. The Aerotrunk I need to hold the
bodysock. And yes, the fairing and bodysock do help me on traffic. I can keep up with cars a lot
easier with them, and they make me very visible.

Quoted message said:

Next time you see Franny, pick up her trike. She's a believer in being prepared for every
contingency, all the time. The thing must weigh 55 pounds, no kidding.

I used to be like that. Carry all tools and spare parts I may ever need. Now I just carry a basic
multitool, tire patches, a pair of spare tubes, and a mini-pump.

Cheers.

Andrew Douglas <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter M Spirito

Quoted message said:

I am being serious and not sarcastic.

When someone asks about lightning the bike, I first suggest, how about lightning the rider
first.

Good advice, always. BUT...

If you don't think that lightening the bike makes a difference, stick two or three bricks in your
seat bag the next time you go riding. You'll notice it...whether you weigh 125 or 275.

Remember, body weight is easier to carry because it's uniformly distributed.

My own threshold of weight-weenieness ends at 100 grams, which is (very) roughly 1/4 pound. I'll
spend money to save that much.

I totally agree with Andrews comments. I think many people rationalize the weight of their bike as
a pound or two doesn't really make all that much difference in relation to the total weight of the
rider and bike and that losing a pound or two in body weight is the way (weigh) to go. If you
continue to go in this direction, your bike really starts to become bloated and your performance
and that of the bike suffers. This becomes more pronounced when you add hills to the equation. Yes
it does definitely improve your performance if the rider looses weight but that is just one part of
the equation.

Lance Armstrong's recommendation to improve your climbing performance is to either loose weight
and/or get a lighter bike. I think both are the solutions although both have their inherent limits
in financial constraints or lifestyle constraints.

I think bents will continue to get lighter as will diamond frames. I also think that a bikes weight
will start to influence which designs and brands flourish and those that do not.

Pat Mc

"S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A standard large Rotator Pursuit weighs in at 21 pounds!!!!!!! With 54 speeds.

The Rotator website states that the standard Pursuit weighs 31 pounds. To get down to 21 pounds, one
must buy the TITANIUM version which cost of $4700!

Thanks for pointing that out The original poster has a bike weighing in at 33 The bottom level
Rotator weighs in at 31, with 48 speeds.

Not everyone can afford a ti Pursuit, sorry about that. Just wanted to remind others of the
possibilities........ Great ride. Light does make a difference. Speedy

Ken Kramer said:

"S. Delaire "Rotatorrecumbent"" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A standard large Rotator Pursuit weighs in at 21 pounds!!!!!!! With 54 speeds.

The Rotator website states that the standard Pursuit weighs 31 pounds. To get down to 21 pounds,
one must buy the TITANIUM version which cost of $4700!

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We sort of backed away from making the advanced composite fairings. They usually weigh in at 2
pounds. Stronger, more durable then clear polycarbonite but still easy enough to damage. Higher
price makes it hurt more when damaged. It's hard to charge enough to cover the hours and materials
and then most customers wanted the strength of a car fender to justify the high cost. Zzipper and
Mueller make great fairings. Speedy

Joao de Souza said:

S. Delaire 'Rotatorrecumbent said:

A standard large Rotator Pursuit weighs in at 21 pounds!!!!!!!

Hey Steve.

One thing I've been thinking of doing on my GRR to add speed and save weight, is to build a zote
foam version of the Rotator fairing. I would also have to build it a little more arched rather
than flat on top of your fairing, in order to fit my handlebars. My current bars have a set of
"aerobars" brazed in, and the fairing would have to curve around it.

Is there a reason why you designed the fairing with that flat area on top? When I rode my friend's
GRR with the rotator fairing I was amazed at the speed increase, but a little annoyed at all the
wind that the flat fairing pushed onto my face.

And since this entire thread started as a weight discussion, what is the weight of those fairings?
I know that the carbon fiber is quite a bit lighter than the kevlar one, but I would be interested
to know their respective weights.

Cheers.

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S. Delaire 'Rotatorrecumbent said:

We sort of backed away from making the advanced composite fairings.

Bummer. Those fairings are incredibly fast, specially when matched to an extended bodysock. I used
to ride a Haluzak and a Strada, and never had any experience with low BB bikes. The very first day I
got on a Tour Easy with the kevlar Rotator fairing and extended bodysock, I was maintaining speeds
in the low 30's on the flats without running out of steam.

Quoted message said:

They usually weigh in at 2 pounds.

That's lighter than I thought. Somehow they *look* chunky.

Quoted message said:

It's hard to charge enough to cover the hours and materials and then most customers wanted the
strength of a car fender to justify the high cost.

Well, Shelly Mossey has been using one of your kevlar fairings for several years now. He rides every
single day, no matter the weather, rides harder than anybody I know, and on busy NYC streets. The
fairing doesn't look exactly pristine, but is holding up quite well with just a few scratches here
and there.

Quoted message said:

Zzipper and Mueller make great fairings.

Indeed they do. Too bad they don't use your molds. 🙂

Cheers.