Weight and Knees

Quoted message said:

DHW [email hidden]
Is it reasonalbe to think I could get out and plod along for about a
mile without causing any knee problems?

Tendons can grow weak over time without stress, and grow strong over time, lots
of time, with stress. Also, muscles will get stronger much, much faster than
tendons, and this sets up an imbalance that can seriously tweak the tendons.

My advice: start very, very slow, run ever other day, and check the knees
carefully on rest days for any possible inflammation. Icing after running
might be a good idea. By slow, I am talking about running only 15 steps or so,
the first session and building up from there.

Gleshna

Overheard at 2004 ESA Northeastern Regional Surf Contest:

"F%&*, I got beaten by a guy from the Great Lakes!"

Quoted message said:

What would you do?

The question is do you want to? If so there's no reason not too. They have made
incredible strides in shoes lately, you'll be amazed what they have for big
runners now. Head to a good running shgop where they can analyze your gait, and
suggest a good shoe fort you. Just DON''T buy Nikes, they are especially bad
for heavier runners.
Good luck..

On 29 Jul 2004 21:44:29 GMT, [email hidden] (TheBillRodgerz)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What would you do?

The question is do you want to? If so there's no reason not too. They have made
incredible strides in shoes lately, you'll be amazed what they have for big
runners now. Head to a good running shgop where they can analyze your gait, and
suggest a good shoe fort you. Just DON''T buy Nikes, they are especially bad
for heavier runners.
Good luck..

I'm looking forward to starting to run. I awlays enjoyed the 10K's. I
knew I was never going to win but I recorded my times and tried to do
a bit better each time.

As for the Nikes ... well, I Googled before posting and ran across
several anti-Nike postings. So, here's some irony:

When I frayed the tendon in my knee I was running in Turntecs (as I
recall. Turner Technology? I seem to remember buying them as they were
supposed to be better for larger runners. I'm sure Turntec had/has
some very good shoes ... I just purchased the wrong style).

Anyway, I bought Turntecs as my Nikes had fallen apart prematurely.
I'd sent them back to Nike with a letter of complaint.

On Sunday I ran a race injuring my knee. On Monday the replacement
Nikes came in the mail.

Had I had the Nikes earlier I would not have injured my knee. Of
course, had they not fallen apart early I never would have purchased
the Turntecs.

Well, that may not be actual irony. In retrospect it isn't
particularly interesting.

Anway, thanks for the info. There's a local shoe store that caters to
runners. I'll stop by there tomorrow to see what they offer.
D. Wells

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DHW <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

When I was younger I'd run on a regular basis. I'd do three miles a
day and typically a 10k on the weekend. I weighed about 215 -- which
was a bit thin at the time. Over the course of 3 miles I'd average
7-minute miles. (Which I thought was OK).

I frayed a tendon in a 10K in my late 20's (Yes, I was running in new
shoes. I knew it was a bad idea. They felt funny. But, I was young and
still invincible.) This led to arthoscopic knee surgery.

I took some time off and was at 250lbs before I decided to start
running again. I don't recall having any problems. At some point I
had a physical -- the doc admired my low resting pulse rate and asked
what I did for activity. I told him I ran. He asked if I had any knee
issues. I assured him I didn't. He concluded the physical by saying,
"I can't believe your knees don't bother you with all the weight you
carry." It wasn't that he didn't believe me -- it was more of an
aside and yes, a curse.

The very next run, my knees started aching.

I'm certain I have a suggestive-personality disorder, and most of that
was in my mind -- I'm supposing. Maybe it was timing. Maybe the shoes
needed replaced. Who knows. Shortly thereafter I quit running.

So, now it's 15 years later. And I'm a little bigger. I'm about 285.
I'm 6 feet 4 inches tall.

I've Googled and have turned up some info on heavy runners -- but
nothing this heavy.

Is it reasonalbe to think I could get out and plod along for about a
mile without causing any knee problems? One of the engineeers would
like to run after work and I keep balking. I think I weigh too much.

I've had a recent physical and, aside from weighing more than I'd
like, I'm in good shape. I go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week and lift.
I ride the exercyle daily (as I make my way through Tom Clancy
novels).

What would you do?

D. Wells

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If you are telling me you are thinking of just going out and running,
even a mile, I think that's silly. You will have another injury and
possibly surgery. You seem to be interested in fitness and health.
Therefore, the sensible thing to do is walking. Every health benefit
is available to you through walking, plus there is less risk of
injury. If you can get your weight down to 170# and are still walking
and fast, then you could think about running. Do what the hell you
want with your body. Tell me you are big boned and should weigh 215#.
Right.

What I would do is....... lose 70 pounds and then ...... run like the wind.
I quit smoking "cold turkey" one day (from smoking 2 packs a day) so that I
could run with the guys from work and I wouldn't be sucking wind. You've
got to want to run more than you want to weight 285. It sounds to me like
you got the determination to pull it off.
Good Luck

"DHW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When I was younger I'd run on a regular basis. I'd do three miles a
day and typically a 10k on the weekend. I weighed about 215 -- which
was a bit thin at the time. Over the course of 3 miles I'd average
7-minute miles. (Which I thought was OK).

I frayed a tendon in a 10K in my late 20's (Yes, I was running in new
shoes. I knew it was a bad idea. They felt funny. But, I was young and
still invincible.) This led to arthoscopic knee surgery.

I took some time off and was at 250lbs before I decided to start
running again. I don't recall having any problems. At some point I
had a physical -- the doc admired my low resting pulse rate and asked
what I did for activity. I told him I ran. He asked if I had any knee
issues. I assured him I didn't. He concluded the physical by saying,
"I can't believe your knees don't bother you with all the weight you
carry." It wasn't that he didn't believe me -- it was more of an
aside and yes, a curse.

The very next run, my knees started aching.

I'm certain I have a suggestive-personality disorder, and most of that
was in my mind -- I'm supposing. Maybe it was timing. Maybe the shoes
needed replaced. Who knows. Shortly thereafter I quit running.

So, now it's 15 years later. And I'm a little bigger. I'm about 285.
I'm 6 feet 4 inches tall.

I've Googled and have turned up some info on heavy runners -- but
nothing this heavy.

Is it reasonalbe to think I could get out and plod along for about a
mile without causing any knee problems? One of the engineeers would
like to run after work and I keep balking. I think I weigh too much.

I've had a recent physical and, aside from weighing more than I'd
like, I'm in good shape. I go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week and lift.
I ride the exercyle daily (as I make my way through Tom Clancy
novels).

What would you do?

D. Wells

[email hidden]
Remove the numbers to mail me. Include the text "gore-in-2004"
(without quotation marks) to ensure you make it past the spam filter.

Quoted message said:

Had I had the Nikes earlier I would not have injured my knee.

This is just conjecture, nothing more. I bet you'd have injured your knee far
worse had you been in nikes, and had you never worn nikes you wouldn't be
injured.

Quoted message said:

Of
course, had they not fallen apart early I never would have purchased
the Turntecs.

So either way, nikes are the cause of your injury.

Quoted message said:

Anway, thanks for the info. There's a local shoe store that caters to
runners. I'll stop by there tomorrow to see what they offer.

Good choice.

Quoted message said:

If you are telling me you are thinking of just going out and running,
even a mile, I think that's silly. You will have another injury and
possibly surgery. You seem to be interested in fitness and health.
Therefore, the sensible thing to do is walking. Every health benefit
is available to you through walking, plus there is less risk of
injury.

This guys a moron. You get nowhere NEAR the benefits of running from walking.
Only a coimplete and utter [censored] would even suggest this.

On 29 Jul 2004 16:01:13 -0700, [email hidden] (eddy eagle)

Quoted message said:

DHW <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

When I was younger I'd run on a regular basis. I'd do three miles a

Quoted message said:

If you are telling me you are thinking of just going out and running,
even a mile, I think that's silly. You will have another injury and
possibly surgery. You seem to be interested in fitness and health.
Therefore, the sensible thing to do is walking. Every health benefit
is available to you through walking, plus there is less risk of
injury. If you can get your weight down to 170# and are still walking
and fast, then you could think about running. Do what the hell you
want with your body. Tell me you are big boned and should weigh 215#.
Right.

No, I'm not thinking of just going out and running a mile. If I were I
would have bought some shoes and hit the road.

I was hoping someone in this newsgroup may have, at one time, weighed
in at something approaching my weight and they could chime in with
"that's a good idea" or "don't do it."

One of the engineers and I walk a mile or more during lunch most days.
I walk to the gym and back almost every night (1.7 miles one way).
Tonight was a non-lifting night and I made the walk just to ride the
bike ... well, and to enjoy the weather and get some air.

I miss running but I certainly don't want to injure myself. I've been
out of the running loop for about 15 years. Back then I remember
hearing about how running was bad on the knees and pounding the
pavement was not terribly good for the body in general. I'm trying to
figure out how this has played out over the years. (There was a line
of thinking in the past that doing deep squats was bad for the knees
-- things I've read recently suggest otherwise. Opinions change as
new information comes available.)

Like I said, I miss it. After a run I felt like I had accomplished
something. I don't get that from walking.

Eddy, I don't think you are a troll. If I did, I wouldn't respond to
your post. But, "Tell me you are big boned and should weight 215#.
Right." sounds like you question what I believe my appropriate weight
should be. What makes you think you should know what I weigh?

I'm familiar with the common height and weight charts. I'm out of
range. I always have been. My doctors -- and these are people who have
seen me naked, some of whom have tactile knowledge of my prostate, and
know me not only from Usenet postings -- have always told me the
height and weight charts are bunk. (One doc told me he thought I
looked good at 250.)

I never said I was big boned. I don't really know how that is defined.
I do know, however, that the last time I weighed 210 (not too long out
of college) my friends and family were on me about being too thin.
Naturally, I thought I looked fine -- when I see pictures of myself
back then I look, well, bad.

As for 170 -- maybe after I'm cremated.

D. Wells

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Remove the numbers to mail me. Include the text "gore-in-2004"
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DHW said:

When I was younger I'd run on a regular basis. I'd do three miles a
day and typically a 10k on the weekend. I weighed about 215 -- which
was a bit thin at the time. Over the course of 3 miles I'd average
7-minute miles. (Which I thought was OK).

Thin by what standards? Did you ever have your bodyfat percentage measured?

Quoted message said:

I frayed a tendon in a 10K in my late 20's (Yes, I was running in new
shoes. I knew it was a bad idea. They felt funny. But, I was young and
still invincible.) This led to arthoscopic knee surgery.

I took some time off and was at 250lbs before I decided to start
running again. I don't recall having any problems. At some point I
had a physical -- the doc admired my low resting pulse rate and asked
what I did for activity. I told him I ran. He asked if I had any knee
issues. I assured him I didn't. He concluded the physical by saying,
"I can't believe your knees don't bother you with all the weight you
carry." It wasn't that he didn't believe me -- it was more of an
aside and yes, a curse.

The very next run, my knees started aching.

I'm certain I have a suggestive-personality disorder, and most of that
was in my mind -- I'm supposing. Maybe it was timing. Maybe the shoes
needed replaced. Who knows. Shortly thereafter I quit running.

So, now it's 15 years later. And I'm a little bigger. I'm about 285.
I'm 6 feet 4 inches tall.

I've Googled and have turned up some info on heavy runners -- but
nothing this heavy.

Is it reasonalbe to think I could get out and plod along for about a
mile without causing any knee problems? One of the engineeers would
like to run after work and I keep balking. I think I weigh too much.

I've had a recent physical and, aside from weighing more than I'd
like, I'm in good shape. I go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week and lift.
I ride the exercyle daily (as I make my way through Tom Clancy
novels).

What would you do?

This is what I did. It has worked for me.

I'm 5' 10.5". When I started dieting in June of '03 I was 245 lbs. This
would be equivalent to a 6' 4" person weighing 285 lbs (assuming the same
body fat and lean muscle percentage). IMO, at that point running was out of
the question. I was shocked when I looked up my weight and height on a BMI
chart. At 245 this is considered "obese." I know these charts are not very
accurate, but being considered obese on any chart is not my idea of
fitness. At that weight my knees probably would have held up, but I was
concerned about the long term impact of running at that weight. My initial
goal was 190 lbs. That would still be considered overweight, but at least I
wouldn't be obese.

I started out with walking 4 days a week. Usually about 2 miles in 30
minutes, which is a pretty fast walking pace for me. At that time, the main
focus was on burning calories. At 245 lbs, 2 miles walking will burn about
280 calories. I combined that with limiting my caloric intake to 2,000
calories per day.

By September I was down to 220 pounds. That's when I started on Hal
Higdon's 30/30 program http://www.halhigdon.com/beginrunner/plan.htm. I was
alternating the run/walk days with walking days in order to keep burning
calories on the non-running days. Each day I would cover 2 miles regardless
of the pace.

A typical week looked something like this:

Mon 30/30
Tue walk
Wed 30/30
Thu walk
Fri 30/30
Sat walk
Sun rest

I would gradually increase the running portion on a few of the 30/30 days.
Also on Sunday I would increase the mileage until I was up to 4 miles of
30/30 run/walking. All running is done at an easy pace.

Mon rest
Tue walk 2 mi
Wed run/walk 3.5 mi
Thu walk 2 mi
Fri run/walk 3.5 mi
Sat walk 2 mi
Sun run/walk 5 mi

By October I was down to 206 pounds. This is when I started on 100% running
days. I was still alternating non-running days with walking days and one
day of complete rest.

Mon rest
Tue walk 2 mi
Wed run 4 mi
Thu walk 2 mi
Fri run 4.5 mi
Sat walk 2 mi
Sun run 6 mi

By November I was down to 200 lbs. I dropped 1 of the walking days and
added running. So I was walking 2 days, running 4 days, and resting 1 day.
Increased mileage on the Sunday long run and increased mileage slightly on
the other running days. Eventually I replaced the Thursday walk with
another running day.

Mon
Tue run 4.2 mi
Wed run 3.2 mi
Thu walk 2 mi
Fri run 5.2 mi
Sat walk 2 mi
Sun run 7.3 mi

By January I was down to 180 lbs. This is still considered slightly
overweight (especially if I want to become a better runner) so I continued
my 2,000 cal/day diet. At this point I've dropped all walking, added
another running day, and added another rest day so that I'm running 5 days,
and resting 2 days.

Sun 9 mi
Mon rest
Tue 5 mi
Wed 7 mi
Thu 6 mi
Fri rest
Sat 5 mi

I'm currently hovering between 160 - 165 lbs and running around 60 mpw.

Mon rest
Tue 10 mi
Wed 9 mi
Thu 6 mi
Fri 11 mi
Sat 5 mi
Sun 20 mi

There are many ways to lose weight and many beginner running programs out
there. However, the main thing of all this data is that you've got to do
everything gradually in order to avoid injury and to stay motivated.
Obviously, there is a big difference between running now and running with
30 to 50 lbs of extra weight. Every day I look forward to my run. It is no
longer a job that I must do, it is an enjoyable part of my day.

Phil M.

--
If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu

Phil M. said:

I'm currently hovering between 160 - 165 lbs and running around 60 mpw.

Mon rest
Tue 10 mi
Wed 9 mi
Thu 6 mi
Fri 11 mi
Sat 5 mi
Sun 20 mi

There are many ways to lose weight and many beginner running programs out
there. However, the main thing of all this data is that you've got to do
everything gradually in order to avoid injury and to stay motivated.
Obviously, there is a big difference between running now and running with
30 to 50 lbs of extra weight. Every day I look forward to my run. It is no
longer a job that I must do, it is an enjoyable part of my day.

Congratulations, this is very good.

--
luc wastiaux

luc wastiaux said:

Phil M. said:

I'm currently hovering between 160 - 165 lbs and running around 60
mpw.

Mon rest
Tue 10 mi
Wed 9 mi
Thu 6 mi
Fri 11 mi
Sat 5 mi
Sun 20 mi

There are many ways to lose weight and many beginner running programs
out there. However, the main thing of all this data is that you've
got to do everything gradually in order to avoid injury and to stay
motivated. Obviously, there is a big difference between running now
and running with 30 to 50 lbs of extra weight. Every day I look
forward to my run. It is no longer a job that I must do, it is an
enjoyable part of my day.

Congratulations, this is very good.

Thanks. I probably should add that I'm currently training for an October
marathon. That's why I'm up to 60 MPW right now.

Phil M.

--
If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu

I had a similar experience with my weight and developed osteoarthritis
in both knees that limited physical activity when I passed 250 lbs (I'm
6'2"😉. I learned that for my knees pain management was going to be
closely tied to weight management. I, too, liked running but when my
knees were at my worst, that was impossible with the knee pain. So I
starting biking instead. Dropped about 30 pounds while strengthening my
thighs (providing more stability of the knees) and heart and have been
able to resume running. My knees now give me no trouble running though
sports where the knee has to deal with more erratic movements (i.e.
basketball, hockey, volleyball, even baseball) are out of the question.
Maybe start with some cycling as a way to get the weight down and
strengthen the thighs in preparation for running.

Now if I could just do something about the damn achilles tendons...

Good luck with it and regards...Paul

DHW said:

When I was younger I'd run on a regular basis. I'd do three miles a
day and typically a 10k on the weekend. I weighed about 215 -- which
was a bit thin at the time. Over the course of 3 miles I'd average
7-minute miles. (Which I thought was OK).

I frayed a tendon in a 10K in my late 20's (Yes, I was running in new
shoes. I knew it was a bad idea. They felt funny. But, I was young and
still invincible.) This led to arthoscopic knee surgery.

I took some time off and was at 250lbs before I decided to start
running again. I don't recall having any problems. At some point I
had a physical -- the doc admired my low resting pulse rate and asked
what I did for activity. I told him I ran. He asked if I had any knee
issues. I assured him I didn't. He concluded the physical by saying,
"I can't believe your knees don't bother you with all the weight you
carry." It wasn't that he didn't believe me -- it was more of an
aside and yes, a curse.

The very next run, my knees started aching.

I'm certain I have a suggestive-personality disorder, and most of that
was in my mind -- I'm supposing. Maybe it was timing. Maybe the shoes
needed replaced. Who knows. Shortly thereafter I quit running.

So, now it's 15 years later. And I'm a little bigger. I'm about 285.
I'm 6 feet 4 inches tall.

I've Googled and have turned up some info on heavy runners -- but
nothing this heavy.

Is it reasonalbe to think I could get out and plod along for about a
mile without causing any knee problems? One of the engineeers would
like to run after work and I keep balking. I think I weigh too much.

I've had a recent physical and, aside from weighing more than I'd
like, I'm in good shape. I go to the gym 3 to 4 days a week and lift.
I ride the exercyle daily (as I make my way through Tom Clancy
novels).

What would you do?

D. Wells

[email hidden]
Remove the numbers to mail me. Include the text "gore-in-2004"
(without quotation marks) to ensure you make it past the spam filter.

Wow, good work!

Your friends and family must be amazed.

DHW said:

As for 170 -- maybe after I'm cremated.

170 at 6'4" is utterly ridiculous.

timeOday said:

Wow, good work!

Your friends and family must be amazed.

More like horrified. ;-)

Phil M.

timeOday said:

DHW said:

As for 170 -- maybe after I'm cremated.

170 at 6'4" is utterly ridiculous.

This could be in the "normal" range, assuming a low amount of lean body
mass. Since DHW says he lifts, he probably has a greater than average
amount of lean body mass, so 170 may be too light. It's very difficult to
say without an accurate measure of body fat percentage.

Phil M.

--
If you can empty your own boat
Crossing the river of the world,
No one will oppose you,
No one will seek to harm you. -Chuang Tzu