We don't dent, we die.

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this
morning in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the
past two years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding
on the country lanes round her home. The classic council response
though was to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so
they didn't need to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies
with roads to themselves.

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable riding 'off road' than
on?

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 07:58:47 +0100, " cupra" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this
morning in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the
past two years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding
on the country lanes round her home. The classic council response
though was to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so
they didn't need to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies
with roads to themselves.

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable riding 'off road' than
on?

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable driving 'off road'
than on?

Marc Brett said:

On Tue, 4 Sep 2007 07:58:47 +0100, " cupra" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this
morning in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the
past two years is making it very difficult for her to go horse
riding on the country lanes round her home. The classic council
response though was to try to get farmers to open more permissive
paths so they didn't need to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding
bullies with roads to themselves.

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable riding 'off road'
than on?

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable driving 'off road'
than on?

Don't start the 4x4 debate!

I only say so out of curiosity - not being a horse rider.

<someone who prefers to cycle off road>

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this morning
in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the past two
years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding on the
country lanes round her home. The classic council response though was
to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so they didn't need
to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies with roads to
themselves.

I wonder if this was the same rider who was in one of the local papers
around Redhill/Reigate? She was describing how some drivers actually hoot
and rev their engines to get the horses out of the way and drive past
shouting and signalling abuse. Worse, one driver actually used his car to
push the horse out of the way!

Cheers
Noel

Noel <[email hidden]> wrote in
news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this
morning in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the
past two years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding
on the country lanes round her home. The classic council response
though was to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so
they didn't need to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies
with roads to themselves.

I wonder if this was the same rider who was in one of the local papers
around Redhill/Reigate? She was describing how some drivers actually
hoot and rev their engines to get the horses out of the way and drive
past shouting and signalling abuse. Worse, one driver actually used
his car to push the horse out of the way!

Sounds like the one and it is clear that she and friends have now been
intimidated off the roads and say they don't ride out on the roads
anymore after school.

--
Tony

" I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
Bertrand Russell

Noel said:

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this morning
in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the past two
years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding on the
country lanes round her home. The classic council response though was
to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so they didn't need
to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies with roads to
themselves.

I wonder if this was the same rider who was in one of the local papers
around Redhill/Reigate? She was describing how some drivers actually hoot
and rev their engines to get the horses out of the way and drive past
shouting and signalling abuse. Worse, one driver actually used his car to
push the horse out of the way!

Maybe the horses need a camera mounted on their rear ends?

In article said:

Tony Raven said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this morning
in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the past two
years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding on the
country lanes round her home. The classic council response though was
to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so they didn't need
to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies with roads to
themselves.

I wonder if this was the same rider who was in one of the local papers
around Redhill/Reigate? She was describing how some drivers actually hoot
and rev their engines to get the horses out of the way and drive past
shouting and signalling abuse. Worse, one driver actually used his car to
push the horse out of the way!

I'd like to see them try that around here (Newmarket)....

Marc Brett said:

Quoted message said:

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable driving 'off road'
than on?

I'm sure it is, but I assume it's like MTB'ing where you always
need to like offroad sections with road sections.

Arthur

--
Arthur Clune PGP/GPG Key: http://www.clune.org/pubkey.txt
The struggle of people against power is the struggle
of memory against forgetting - Milan Kundera

cupra said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable riding 'off road'
than on?

I only say so out of curiosity - not being a horse rider.

I'm not a horse rider either, but on/off road surely depends on what's
achievable. I like to walk, will travel long distances to get to good
walking country, and don't really want to walk on roads.

But I tend to cycle locally rather than travel first; either in towns
for utility or countryside for pleasure.

If you live in a built-up area and keep a horse, it's likely to be
kept on farmland rather than open countryside (moors, the highlands
etc.) and needs regular exercise. Unlike a bike, which is your own
choice - most bikes won't complain if you leave them in the garage for
a week. So avoiding roads would be very limiting, and might restrict
you to a particular set of farm tracks or byroads. Transporting a
horse to an area where you can ride more freely is a much bigger
problem than for a bike or a rucsac.

I'm quite shocked to hear that drivers are now harassing horse
riders. I've always found that people will act around horses the way
I'd like them to act around bikes, passing wide & slow. This is partly
through consideration but also strengthened by fear : an out-of-
control horse will do damage even to a car driver. I'm sorry to
hear that even that respect is going, and disgusted that the local
council are reacting by trying to get horses off the road.

I enjoy driving and appreciate the convenience of using a car. But
increasingly, this sort of thing (as well as the loss of driving
pleasure caused by overcrowded roads and all the other disadvantages
of the growth of car transport) is making me reconsider. I think I
might be turning into a car-hater.

-adrian

Adrian Godwin said:

cupra said:

Quoted message said:

> I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable riding 'off
> road' than on?
>

I only say so out of curiosity - not being a horse rider.

I'm not a horse rider either, but on/off road surely depends on what's
achievable. I like to walk, will travel long distances to get to good
walking country, and don't really want to walk on roads.

But I tend to cycle locally rather than travel first; either in towns
for utility or countryside for pleasure.

If you live in a built-up area and keep a horse, it's likely to be
kept on farmland rather than open countryside (moors, the highlands
etc.) and needs regular exercise. Unlike a bike, which is your own
choice - most bikes won't complain if you leave them in the garage for
a week. So avoiding roads would be very limiting, and might restrict
you to a particular set of farm tracks or byroads. Transporting a
horse to an area where you can ride more freely is a much bigger
problem than for a bike or a rucsac.

I'm quite shocked to hear that drivers are now harassing horse
riders. I've always found that people will act around horses the way
I'd like them to act around bikes, passing wide & slow. This is partly
through consideration but also strengthened by fear : an out-of-
control horse will do damage even to a car driver.

I always pass horses (and cyclists) wide and slow when I'm driving -
something sadly lacking from a lot of road users.

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry to
hear that even that respect is going, and disgusted that the local
council are reacting by trying to get horses off the road.

I enjoy driving and appreciate the convenience of using a car. But
increasingly, this sort of thing (as well as the loss of driving
pleasure caused by overcrowded roads and all the other disadvantages
of the growth of car transport) is making me reconsider. I think I
might be turning into a car-hater.

Someone elsewhere spoke of the difference between car drivers and car
users - a driver shows care and consideration and respects all road users, a
car user is just that - once they pass the test they treat the roads with a
complete lack of respect (often in complete ignorance).

Sadly the former is in decline, judging from my experiences.

cupra said:

Adrian Godwin said:

cupra said:

>> I tend to agree, but surely it'd be more enjoyable riding 'off
>> road' than on?
>>
I only say so out of curiosity - not being a horse rider.

I'm not a horse rider either, but on/off road surely depends on what's
achievable. I like to walk, will travel long distances to get to good
walking country, and don't really want to walk on roads.

But I tend to cycle locally rather than travel first; either in towns
for utility or countryside for pleasure.

If you live in a built-up area and keep a horse, it's likely to be
kept on farmland rather than open countryside (moors, the highlands
etc.) and needs regular exercise. Unlike a bike, which is your own
choice - most bikes won't complain if you leave them in the garage for
a week. So avoiding roads would be very limiting, and might restrict
you to a particular set of farm tracks or byroads. Transporting a
horse to an area where you can ride more freely is a much bigger
problem than for a bike or a rucsac.

I'm quite shocked to hear that drivers are now harassing horse
riders. I've always found that people will act around horses the way
I'd like them to act around bikes, passing wide & slow. This is partly
through consideration but also strengthened by fear : an out-of-
control horse will do damage even to a car driver.

I always pass horses (and cyclists) wide and slow when I'm driving -
something sadly lacking from a lot of road users.

Quoted message said:

I'm sorry to
hear that even that respect is going, and disgusted that the local
council are reacting by trying to get horses off the road.

I enjoy driving and appreciate the convenience of using a car. But
increasingly, this sort of thing (as well as the loss of driving
pleasure caused by overcrowded roads and all the other disadvantages
of the growth of car transport) is making me reconsider. I think I
might be turning into a car-hater.

Someone elsewhere spoke of the difference between car drivers and car
users - a driver shows care and consideration and respects all road users, a
car user is just that - once they pass the test they treat the roads with a
complete lack of respect (often in complete ignorance).

Sadly the former is in decline, judging from my experiences.

I've always used Motorist and Driver

A motorist is an enthusiast, cares about and takes a pride in their
driving. A driver just drivers

Drivers are PDVs Person Driving Vehicle, akin to POBs

Marc Brett said:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 07:49:38 GMT, Noel

Quoted message said:

On Tue, 04 Sep 2007 01:05:31 -0500, Tony Raven wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Catchy phrase of a young horse-rider on the BBC South news this morning
in a piece about how increasing driver aggression over the past two
years is making it very difficult for her to go horse riding on the
country lanes round her home. The classic council response though was
to try to get farmers to open more permissive paths so they didn't need
to use the roads. Nothing like rewarding bullies with roads to
themselves.

Quoted message said:

I wonder if this was the same rider who was in one of the local papers
around Redhill/Reigate? She was describing how some drivers actually hoot
and rev their engines to get the horses out of the way and drive past
shouting and signalling abuse. Worse, one driver actually used his car to
push the horse out of the way!

I find that beyond belief. I've always treated horses with respect,
not only because I try to do the same for all vulnerable road users,
but because I know they can do a lot of damage to a car, and possibly
to me.

Quoted message said:

Maybe the horses need a camera mounted on their rear ends?

Round here, if a community complains about speeding traffic, they can
borrow a speed gun to gather evidence.

I'd like to see a similar scheme for vulnerable road users - if they
are being harrassed by motorists on a regular basis, they borrow a
video camera which can be mounted on their horse/bike/whatever. Camera
should be of good enough quality to get reg. numbers, etc. At the end
of the loan, the borrower returns it to the police highlighting any
significant incidents. Police then take action (which might of course
be to tell the borrower they were in the wrong).

Too many motorists think it doesn't matter how they treat vulnerable
road users - the thought that any horse/bike they are overtaking might
have an official camera on it might make them think more.

Rob

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe the horses need a camera mounted on their rear ends?

Round here, if a community complains about speeding traffic, they can
borrow a speed gun to gather evidence.

I'd like to see a similar scheme for vulnerable road users - if they
are being harrassed by motorists on a regular basis, they borrow a
video camera which can be mounted on their horse/bike/whatever. Camera
should be of good enough quality to get reg. numbers, etc. At the end
of the loan, the borrower returns it to the police highlighting any
significant incidents. Police then take action (which might of course
be to tell the borrower they were in the wrong).

Too many motorists think it doesn't matter how they treat vulnerable
road users - the thought that any horse/bike they are overtaking might
have an official camera on it might make them think more.

How would the drivers know?

marc said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe the horses need a camera mounted on their rear ends?

Quoted message said:

Round here, if a community complains about speeding traffic, they can
borrow a speed gun to gather evidence.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to see a similar scheme for vulnerable road users - if they
are being harrassed by motorists on a regular basis, they borrow a
video camera which can be mounted on their horse/bike/whatever. Camera
should be of good enough quality to get reg. numbers, etc. At the end
of the loan, the borrower returns it to the police highlighting any
significant incidents. Police then take action (which might of course
be to tell the borrower they were in the wrong).

Quoted message said:

Too many motorists think it doesn't matter how they treat vulnerable
road users - the thought that any horse/bike they are overtaking might
have an official camera on it might make them think more.

How would the drivers know?

Er, they wouldn't. At the moment drivers know that if they cut up a
rider, the chances of anything coming of it are substantially zero. If
the system became reasonably common, they'd have to start thinking "Is
this the bike (horse, etc) with the camera on today?". Some would
chance it - they'd be the ones who do it a lot, and sooner or later
they'd get caught. For others, they would start to think more about
their driving in this situation and modify it, the way speed cameras
have modified driving speeds on some stretches of road.

Rob

Quoted message said:

marc said:

Quoted message said:

> Maybe the horses need a camera mounted on their rear ends?
Round here, if a community complains about speeding traffic, they can
borrow a speed gun to gather evidence.
I'd like to see a similar scheme for vulnerable road users - if they
are being harrassed by motorists on a regular basis, they borrow a
video camera which can be mounted on their horse/bike/whatever. Camera
should be of good enough quality to get reg. numbers, etc. At the end
of the loan, the borrower returns it to the police highlighting any
significant incidents. Police then take action (which might of course
be to tell the borrower they were in the wrong).
Too many motorists think it doesn't matter how they treat vulnerable
road users - the thought that any horse/bike they are overtaking might
have an official camera on it might make them think more.

How would the drivers know?

Er, they wouldn't. At the moment drivers know that if they cut up a
rider, the chances of anything coming of it are substantially zero. If
the system became reasonably common, they'd have to start thinking "Is
this the bike (horse, etc) with the camera on today?". Some would
chance it - they'd be the ones who do it a lot, and sooner or later
they'd get caught. For others, they would start to think more about
their driving in this situation and modify it, the way speed cameras
have modified driving speeds on some stretches of road.

How would the driver know if it was common?

Noel said the following on 04/09/2007 08:49:

Quoted message said:

I wonder if this was the same rider who was in one of the local papers
around Redhill/Reigate? She was describing how some drivers actually hoot
and rev their engines to get the horses out of the way and drive past
shouting and signalling abuse. Worse, one driver actually used his car to
push the horse out of the way!

That's quite unbelievable! What the hell has happened to people to make
them so selfish and arrogant? Why should one person in a car think they
have some sort of divine power over one person on a horse, or bike or
whatever?

The last time I encountered a horse whilst driving was on a single track
country lane, and I just stopped completely to let it past. Is that
really such a hard attitude to have?

</rant>

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

marc said:

Quoted message said:

marc said:

[email hidden] wrote:
>> Maybe the horses need a camera mounted on their rear ends?
> Round here, if a community complains about speeding traffic, they can
> borrow a speed gun to gather evidence.
> I'd like to see a similar scheme for vulnerable road users - if they
> are being harrassed by motorists on a regular basis, they borrow a
> video camera which can be mounted on their horse/bike/whatever. Camera
> should be of good enough quality to get reg. numbers, etc. At the end
> of the loan, the borrower returns it to the police highlighting any
> significant incidents. Police then take action (which might of course
> be to tell the borrower they were in the wrong).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How would the drivers know?

Quoted message said:

Er, they wouldn't. At the moment drivers know that if they cut up a
rider, the chances of anything coming of it are substantially zero. If
the system became reasonably common, they'd have to start thinking "Is
this the bike (horse, etc) with the camera on today?". Some would
chance it - they'd be the ones who do it a lot, and sooner or later
they'd get caught. For others, they would start to think more about
their driving in this situation and modify it, the way speed cameras
have modified driving speeds on some stretches of road.

How would the driver know if it was common?

Stories in the local media about prosecutions.

I suppose you could take the other approach of letting the driver know
it was there, maybe with the sort of flags bents have, with a picture
of a camera on it.

Paul Boyd said:

That's quite unbelievable! What the hell has happened to people to make
them so selfish and arrogant?

Thatcher's Britain :-(

T

marc said:

I've always used Motorist and Driver

A motorist is an enthusiast, cares about and takes a pride in their
driving. A driver just drivers

Drivers are PDVs Person Driving Vehicle, akin to POBs

Too often it's Person Weilding Vehicle.

--
Brian G
www.wetwo.co.uk