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Water-out hole in the wrong place?
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- 18 December 2007
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- 20 December 2007
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email hidden said:
Flow control: the outport is designed to only let the serious outflow
out when the frame fills to excessive levels. We do this with "land
architecture" and engineering terrain drainage systems all the time.
You want to maintain a certain level so the selected plant life can
properly grow and flourish. -
On Dec 19, 12:27 am, "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
It make a pleasant flute-like sound at speed. Water changes the pitch.
Joseph
-
Quoted message said:
In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge. You
drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then insert a
tube. I've never seen an example of this type of construction, but Tim
Paterek describes it in his framebuilding manual (p. 3-16). -
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge. You
drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then insert a
tube. I've never seen an example of this type of construction, but Tim
Paterek describes it in his framebuilding manual (p. 3-16).Dear Gary,
You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to
the bottom bracket.I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame or
of different frames.If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the hole
in the chainstay in the second picture.Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation
and some better pictures would clear things up.Cheers,
Carl Fogel
-
carlfogel said:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge. You
drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then insert a
tube. I've never seen an example of this type of construction, but Tim
Paterek describes it in his framebuilding manual (p. 3-16).Dear Gary,
You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to the
bottom bracket.I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame or of
different frames.If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the hole
in the chainstay in the second picture.I think that's the seatstay bridge in the first photo, not the chainstay
bridge. It doesn't look like it's drilled for a brake, so maybe this is a
track bike -- in which case it wouldn't surprise me if the bike had very
short chainstays (and a bridge very close to the bottom bracket).Quoted message said:
Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation and
some better pictures would clear things up.Agreed.
-
Gary Young said:
carlfogel said:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>
wrote:Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:27:46 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge. You
drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then insert a
tube. I've never seen an example of this type of construction, but Tim
Paterek describes it in his framebuilding manual (p. 3-16).Quoted message said:
Dear Gary,
Quoted message said:
You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to the
bottom bracket.Quoted message said:
I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame or of
different frames.Quoted message said:
If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the hole
in the chainstay in the second picture.I think that's the seatstay bridge in the first photo, not the chainstay
bridge. It doesn't look like it's drilled for a brake, so maybe this is a
track bike -- in which case it wouldn't surprise me if the bike had very
short chainstays (and a bridge very close to the bottom bracket).Quoted message said:
Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation and
some better pictures would clear things up.Agreed.
Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
--D-y
-
email hidden said:
Gary Young said:
carlfogel said:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>
wrote:Quoted message said:
>On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:27:46 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
>In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge. You
>drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then insert a
>tube. I've never seen an example of this type of construction, but Tim
>Paterek describes it in his framebuilding manual (p. 3-16).Quoted message said:
Dear Gary,
Quoted message said:
You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to the
bottom bracket.Quoted message said:
I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame or of
different frames.Quoted message said:
If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the hole
in the chainstay in the second picture.I think that's the seatstay bridge in the first photo, not the chainstay
bridge. It doesn't look like it's drilled for a brake, so maybe this is a
track bike -- in which case it wouldn't surprise me if the bike had very
short chainstays (and a bridge very close to the bottom bracket).Quoted message said:
Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation and
some better pictures would clear things up.Agreed.
Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
--D-y
Dear D,
Well, at least it explains that Gary's right and that I was wrong
about the bridge--it's a seatstay bridge:http://i7.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/cc/df/ac7d_12.JPG
I'm not sure what the auction shows about the mystery hole, which is
kinda-sorta further back from a bridgish-thingy:http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_12.JPG
http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/bc7c_12.JPG
Maybe a very curved chainstay bridge went in through the hole?
http://i6.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/a6fe_12.JPG
I can't tell what's happening right behind the bottom bracket.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
-
In article <b312db5c-646c-4fd6-957b-f7aec7020e94
@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [email hidden] says...Quoted message said:
Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
Yes, explanations there, too -- it does specify an open CS bridge and
open tube ends -- most builders either dome the tube ends or fill them
with spelter, but it's not really necessary if the joints are done well,
and it does save fractions of an ounce of filler.--
[email hidden] is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/>
Braze your own bicycle frames. See
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/build/build.html> -
carlfogel said:
email hidden said:
Gary Young said:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:31:41 -0700, carlfogel wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young
> <[email hidden]> wrote:>>On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:27:46 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:
>>>http://i8.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/cc/df/ae8e_12.JPG
>>>http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_0.JPG
>>In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge.
>>You drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then
>>insert a tube. I've never seen an example of this type of
>>construction, but Tim Paterek describes it in his framebuilding
>>manual (p. 3-16).> Dear Gary,
> You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to
> the bottom bracket.> I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame
> or of different frames.> If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
> bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the
> hole in the chainstay in the second picture.I think that's the seatstay bridge in the first photo, not the
chainstay bridge. It doesn't look like it's drilled for a brake, so
maybe this is a track bike -- in which case it wouldn't surprise me if
the bike had very short chainstays (and a bridge very close to the
bottom bracket).> Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation
> and some better pictures would clear things up.Agreed.
Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
--D-y
Dear D,
Well, at least it explains that Gary's right and that I was wrong about
the bridge--it's a seatstay bridge:http://i7.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/cc/df/ac7d_12.JPG
I'm not sure what the auction shows about the mystery hole, which is
kinda-sorta further back from a bridgish-thingy:See the bit of blue inside the hole (bc7c_12.JPG)? That's the bridge --
just imagine driving a straight piece of tubing through both chainstays,
cutting the ends flush with the outside walls of the chainstays, and then
brazing it in place. It's like a tunnel through the chainstays. Because
of the presence of the tube, the chainstays themselves are just as much
sealed as on an ordinary frame. (The seatstays are a different matter,
and are probably open at both ends.)Quoted message said:
Maybe a very curved chainstay bridge went in through the hole?What makes you think the chainstay bridge is curved?
Quoted message said:
http://i6.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/a6fe_12.JPG
I can't tell what's happening right behind the bottom bracket.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
-
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:43:37 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
carlfogel said:
email hidden said:
On Dec 19, 9:59 pm, Gary Young <[email hidden]> wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:31:41 -0700, carlfogel wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young
> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> >>On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:27:46 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:
>
> >>>http://i8.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/cc/df/ae8e_12.JPG
>
> >>>http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_0.JPG
>
> >>In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge.
> >>You drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then
> >>insert a tube. I've never seen an example of this type of
> >>construction, but Tim Paterek describes it in his framebuilding
> >>manual (p. 3-16).
>
> > Dear Gary,
>
> > You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to
> > the bottom bracket.
>
> > I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame
> > or of different frames.
>
> > If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
> > bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the
> > hole in the chainstay in the second picture.
>
> I think that's the seatstay bridge in the first photo, not the
> chainstay bridge. It doesn't look like it's drilled for a brake, so
> maybe this is a track bike -- in which case it wouldn't surprise me if
> the bike had very short chainstays (and a bridge very close to the
> bottom bracket).
>
>
>
> > Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation
> > and some better pictures would clear things up.
>
> Agreed.Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
--D-y
Dear D,
Well, at least it explains that Gary's right and that I was wrong about
the bridge--it's a seatstay bridge:http://i7.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/cc/df/ac7d_12.JPG
I'm not sure what the auction shows about the mystery hole, which is
kinda-sorta further back from a bridgish-thingy:See the bit of blue inside the hole (bc7c_12.JPG)? That's the bridge --
just imagine driving a straight piece of tubing through both chainstays,
cutting the ends flush with the outside walls of the chainstays, and then
brazing it in place. It's like a tunnel through the chainstays. Because
of the presence of the tube, the chainstays themselves are just as much
sealed as on an ordinary frame. (The seatstays are a different matter,
and are probably open at both ends.)Quoted message said:
Maybe a very curved chainstay bridge went in through the hole?What makes you think the chainstay bridge is curved?
Quoted message said:
http://i6.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/a6fe_12.JPG
I can't tell what's happening right behind the bottom bracket.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Dear Gary,
You may be right. I can't tell if that's the inside of a piece of
bridge tubing or just the far wall of the chainstay:http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/bc7c_12.JPG
As for the curving, it looks to me as if the bridge piece in the
chainstay (if there is one--that's how unsure I am) has to be a curved
shape to end up so far forward from the hole (if it's going through
the hole):http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_12.JPG
But now I wonder if maybe the camera angle is deceiving me.
Frustratingly, we could tell for sure in a second or two if we had the
actual bike. If I had to bet at this point, I'd bet on your
explanation.Cheers,
Carl Fogel
-
Quoted message said:
In article <b312db5c-646c-4fd6-957b-f7aec7020e94
@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, [email hidden] says...Quoted message said:
Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
Yes, explanations there, too -- it does specify an open CS bridge and
open tube ends -- most builders either dome the tube ends or fill them
with spelter, but it's not really necessary if the joints are done well,
and it does save fractions of an ounce of filler.Dear Josh,
Aha! Lucky for me that someone read the text--I got sidetracked at the
pictures. It does indeed say open CS bridge, so Gary's right and my
doubts were just plain wrong.Cheers,
Carl Fogel
-
Quoted message said:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:43:37 -0600, Gary Young <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
carlfogel said:
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:09:56 -0800 (PST), "[email hidden]"
<[email hidden]> wrote:>On Dec 19, 9:59 pm, Gary Young <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:31:41 -0700, carlfogel wrote:
>> > On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:06:23 -0600, Gary Young
>> > <[email hidden]> wrote:
>>
>> >>On Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:27:46 -0800, [email hidden] wrote:
>>
>> >>>http://i8.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/cc/df/ae8e_12.JPG
>>
>> >>>http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_0.JPG
>>
>> >>In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge.
>> >>You drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then
>> >>insert a tube. I've never seen an example of this type of
>> >>construction, but Tim Paterek describes it in his framebuilding
>> >>manual (p. 3-16).
>>
>> > Dear Gary,
>>
>> > You may be right, but the hole would put the bridge awfully close to
>> > the bottom bracket.
>>
>> > I'm not sure if the two uncaptioned pictures are of the same frame
>> > or of different frames.
>>
>> > If they're the same frame (?), the first picture shows a chainstay
>> > bridge in place and much further from the bottom bracket than the
>> > hole in the chainstay in the second picture.
>>
>> I think that's the seatstay bridge in the first photo, not the
>> chainstay bridge. It doesn't look like it's drilled for a brake, so
>> maybe this is a track bike -- in which case it wouldn't surprise me if
>> the bike had very short chainstays (and a bridge very close to the
>> bottom bracket).
>>
>>
>>
>> > Whatever's going on, it's a good example of how a little explanation
>> > and some better pictures would clear things up.
>>
>> Agreed.
>
>Well, more pictures, but I don't know about explaining:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/26svgq
>
>--D-yDear D,
Well, at least it explains that Gary's right and that I was wrong about
the bridge--it's a seatstay bridge:http://i7.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/cc/df/ac7d_12.JPG
I'm not sure what the auction shows about the mystery hole, which is
kinda-sorta further back from a bridgish-thingy:See the bit of blue inside the hole (bc7c_12.JPG)? That's the bridge --
just imagine driving a straight piece of tubing through both chainstays,
cutting the ends flush with the outside walls of the chainstays, and then
brazing it in place. It's like a tunnel through the chainstays. Because
of the presence of the tube, the chainstays themselves are just as much
sealed as on an ordinary frame. (The seatstays are a different matter,
and are probably open at both ends.)Quoted message said:
Maybe a very curved chainstay bridge went in through the hole?What makes you think the chainstay bridge is curved?
Quoted message said:
http://i6.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/a6fe_12.JPG
I can't tell what's happening right behind the bottom bracket.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Dear Gary,
You may be right. I can't tell if that's the inside of a piece of
bridge tubing or just the far wall of the chainstay:http://i24.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/cc/df/bc7c_12.JPG
As for the curving, it looks to me as if the bridge piece in the
chainstay (if there is one--that's how unsure I am) has to be a curved
shape to end up so far forward from the hole (if it's going through
the hole):http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_12.JPG
But now I wonder if maybe the camera angle is deceiving me.
Frustratingly, we could tell for sure in a second or two if we had the
actual bike. If I had to bet at this point, I'd bet on your
explanation.Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Never mind--you're right and I was wrong to doubt you.
I could have told for sure in a second without any frustration at all
if I'd read the text of the auction below the pictures.Luckily, Josh has an adult attention span and pointed this out.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
-
Quoted message said:
Quoted message said:
http://i8.ebayimg.com/07/i/000/cc/df/ae8e_12.JPG
http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/cc/df/b112_0.JPGGary Young said:
In that second photo, the hole in the chainstay may be the bridge. You
drill a hole through both walls of both chainstays and then insert a
tube. I've never seen an example of this type of construction, but Tim
Paterek describes it in his framebuilding manual (p. 3-16).Cog Magazine centerfold this month for the most extreme example ever!
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
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