Washington Post Article on US War against Non-Motorists

Thanks for that link. I always walked to school, it was about an hour each way. That was 40 years
ago. I still walk a lot, and I feel sad that kids today do not get to do what I did. The bus picks
them up at the end of their driveway, and drops them off in the afternoon. And we wonder why so many
kids are overweight and unhealthy today.

Jack

"Elisa Francesca Roselli" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4006B8DE.65B2359A@quadratec-
software.com...

Quoted message said:

Here's a link to an article in the Washington Post about how urban development is making it
virtually impossible to be a pedestrian (and by implication a cyclist). Long and rambling, but
provides some good indictments.

washingtonpost.comA60034 2004Jan6.htmlOpen ↗

EFR Ile de France

Jack said:

Thanks for that link. I always walked to school, it was about an hour each way. That was 40 years
ago. I still walk a lot, and I feel sad that kids today do not get to do what I did. The bus picks
them up at the end of their driveway, and drops them off in the afternoon. And we wonder why so
many kids are overweight and unhealthy today.

Jack

My niece and nephew live a grand total of 4 blocks from their school. 4 BLOCKS! Yet, becasue my
sister and brother-in-law work everyday, my mom will drive across town to pick them up!

This is not a large city. BUt a small, podunk burg on the West Coast of Washington. The fear is
'They will get cold and wet...'

Sheesh... I used to walk to school everyday while in the same town about 20 minutes each way. No one
was worried that I would get cold and wet.

Go finger...

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In article said:

Jack said:

Thanks for that link. I always walked to school, it was about an hour each way. That was 40
years ago. I still walk a lot, and I feel sad that kids today do not get to do what I did. The
bus picks them up at the end of their driveway, and drops them off in the afternoon. And we
wonder why so many kids are overweight and unhealthy today.

Jack

My niece and nephew live a grand total of 4 blocks from their school. 4 BLOCKS! Yet, becasue my
sister and brother-in-law work everyday, my mom will drive across town to pick them up!

This is not a large city. BUt a small, podunk burg on the West Coast of Washington. The fear is
'They will get cold and wet...'

Sheesh... I used to walk to school everyday while in the same town about 20 minutes each way. No
one was worried that I would get cold and wet.

Go finger...

When I was a kid, it was totally normal for everyone to walk to our school. It was very close by,
maybe a ten minute walk. Except for the kids who lived in what was then a newly developed area that
was too far to walk and had no buses, so they were bused in. Those of us who lived around the school
all walked unless it was REALLY bad weather or you had a broken leg. But there was one kid who lived
across the street from us whose mother drove him to school and picked him up EVERY single day. It
was considered to be totally weird. And yes, he was kind of chubby, which back then was also unusual-
there weren't as many chubby kids in the 70s. They were a rather weird family,actually. Kids made
fun of him of course, becaues it was just so weird, never going outside to play even on nice days!
Anyways, years later he got into fitness and lost weight and really was a goodlooking guy! Hopefully
he has stayed that way- maybe got into cycling!

Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Here's a link to an article in the Washington Post about how urban development is making it
virtually impossible to be a pedestrian (and by implication a cyclist). Long and rambling, but
provides some good indictments.

washingtonpost.comA60034 2004Jan6.htmlOpen ↗

EFR Ile de France

Good article. Here's one passage that stood out for me, where the writer describes her state of mind
when driving a car again.

"In this frame of mind, my instinctive reaction to a cyclist pedaling along a slower secondary
road is intense irritation. I'm all jumped up and my internal road hog is furious. It's so hard
out here already, what is this clown doing in my lane, churning along well under the speed limit,
with his watery, blinking taillight, forcing everyone to slow down and wait for a chance to swerve
around him?

In other words, the toxic combination of road conditions, the distance and my own fatigue have
turned me into a jerk of the first order, a danger to that cyclist's well-being and to my own."

"Joe Cipale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jack said:

Thanks for that link. I always walked to school, it was about an hour each way. That was 40
years ago. I still walk a lot, and I feel sad that kids today do not get to do what I did. The
bus picks them up at the end of their driveway, and drops them off in the afternoon. And we
wonder why so many kids are overweight and unhealthy today.

Jack

My niece and nephew live a grand total of 4 blocks from their school. 4 BLOCKS! Yet, becasue my
sister and brother-in-law work everyday, my mom will drive across town to pick them up!

This is not a large city. BUt a small, podunk burg on the West Coast of Washington. The fear is
'They will get cold and wet...'

Sheesh... I used to walk to school everyday while in the same town about 20 minutes each way. No
one was worried that I would get cold and wet.

When I was a kid, I remember hearing stories maybe exagerrated or maybe not, from older people
talking about how they had to walk miles to school. From kindergarten to 3rd grade, I lived in a
residential area of Memphis, TN which was within walking distance of two elementary schools. My mom
drove me to school most days. In the third grade she finally relented to some begging that I had
started doing and gave me a little freedom and I'd walk with my two little sisters to school. After
that my family moved to a rural area and we were about 6 miles from school then so it was the school
bus. But years later my mom admitted to being terrified of letting us walk to school alone. Of
course, as a little 5-8 yr/old boy, I had no fear of anything, but looking back at that
neighborhood, I thought that neighborhood was a fairly nice. I was the first child so that might
have contributed to my mother's overabundance of natural fear for her children.

Anyway seems each generation is walking less and less. Back when I heard the stories, I didn't hear
anything about the health benefits, only that they had it much harder. Perhaps they really had it
much better, at least as far as being able integrate some physical activity into the normal
activities of the day. These days everyone has to join a health club and you have to put your kid
into the soccer league. You can't just run down to the neighborhood playground and play games with
the neighborhood kids.

"Joe Cipale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jack said:

Thanks for that link. I always walked to school, it was about an hour each way. That was 40
years ago. I still walk a lot, and I feel sad that kids today do not get to do what I did. The
bus picks them up at the end of their driveway, and drops them off in the afternoon. And we
wonder why so many kids are overweight and unhealthy today.

Jack

My niece and nephew live a grand total of 4 blocks from their school. 4 BLOCKS! Yet, becasue my
sister and brother-in-law work everyday, my mom will drive across town to pick them up!

This is not a large city. BUt a small, podunk burg on the West Coast of Washington. The fear is
'They will get cold and wet...'

Sheesh... I used to walk to school everyday while in the same town about 20 minutes each way. No
one was worried that I would get cold and wet.

Go finger...

Wow, it's pretty obvious who your mom likes more....

"M. Barbee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

But years later my mom admitted to being terrified of letting us walk to school alone. Of course,
as a little 5-8 yr/old boy, I had no fear of anything, but looking back at that neighborhood, I
thought that neighborhood was a fairly nice. I was the first child so that might have contributed
to my mother's overabundance of natural fear for her children.

This is the weird thing. A) family lives close enough to school for walking. B) parents fear for
children walking in public on their own. Solution - Drive the kids to school. Does it never occur to
them to WALK WITH THEIR KIDS to school?

Allister

"M. Barbee" <[email hidden]> wrote

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Anyway seems each generation is walking less and less. Back when I heard the stories, I didn't
hear anything about the health benefits, only that they had it much harder. Perhaps they really
had it much better, at least as far as being able integrate some physical activity into the normal
activities of the day. These days everyone has to join a health club and you have to put your kid
into the soccer league. You can't just run down

to

Quoted message said:

the neighborhood playground and play games with the neighborhood kids.

They had it easy back then.

Have you seen the TON of homework kids have these days? Seriously, what kid has time to walk to
school or go to a playground even if they wanted to?

An not for nothing but when I was a kid, you could buy a house on one income (and my Father did just
that). Today, the prices of housing is outrageous and both parents often have to work ... so the
kids have to be scooted off to school as fast as possible.

Kids should have time to be kids, not like little overworked employees. I mean, are they *trying* to
train kids to rush (drive) everywhere and spend 14 hours a day sitting in a chair doing paperwork?

C.Q.C.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Curtis L. Russell said:

David L. Johnson said:

I went to elementary school in the '50s, and there were plenty of chubby children, lots of
McDonald's, and plenty of excuses to not go outside even on nice days.

Possible, but unlikely.

Anyhow, there were plenty of other fast food joints, like A&W, with similar fare.

So, I think maybe David was using "McDonald's" as a more generic term for "fast food restaurant".

I think one thing that has changed and is contributing greatly to the current increase of
incidence of diabetes, is the way so much more sugar is pumped into so many products as cheap
filler these days.

cheers, Tom

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Cathy Kearns said:

"Joe Cipale" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jack said:

Thanks for that link. I always walked to school, it was about an hour each way. That was 40
years ago. I still walk a lot, and I feel sad that kids today do not get to do what I did. The
bus picks them up at the end of their driveway, and drops them off in the afternoon. And we
wonder why so many kids are overweight and unhealthy today.

Jack

My niece and nephew live a grand total of 4 blocks from their school. 4 BLOCKS! Yet, becasue my
sister and brother-in-law work everyday, my mom will drive across town to pick them up!

This is not a large city. BUt a small, podunk burg on the West Coast of Washington. The fear is
'They will get cold and wet...'

Sheesh... I used to walk to school everyday while in the same town about 20 minutes each way. No
one was worried that I would get cold and wet.

Go finger...

Wow, it's pretty obvious who your mom likes more....

That is only because my family lives a40 miles south of her. We don't give her the chance to corrupt
our family... 😄
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## Software development, QA and testing. # Linux support and training. # "Don't fear the penguin!" #
#----------------------------------------------------------# Registered Linux user: #309247
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David L. Johnson said:

I'm not saying that kids aren't coddled today, and couldn't benefit from a little exercise. But
this trend is decades long, not something new.

The downward trend in exercise is not new, nor is the upward trend in poor diet, but the
compbination of the two has led to a very steep rise in obesity and related disorders in a very
short time. It seems like we're locked into positive-feedback at present, on the transport
issue at least.

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

David L. Johnson said:

I went to elementary school in the '50s, and there were plenty of chubby children, lots of
McDonald's, and plenty of excuses to not go outside even on nice days.

Possible, but unlikely. I'm old enough to be a manager of McDonalds in the 60s, and the chain was
just becoming ubiquitous in the early 60s. The franchising started in the mid-50s - 54, 55, 56,
around there. So unless you lived in the original area or where Ray Kroc opened up his 'franchise' -
somewhere in California in the first case and somewhere near Chicago, Illinois in the second -
McDonalds where not common in the 50s.

The regular burgers were bigger then - starting at 8 to 1 or half a quarter pounder, but much of
the real [censored] wasn't around yet. Basically, burgers, fresh cut fries and fish on fridays. The
double hamburgers were the closest to a artery closer. The 'burgers with goop' started in the late
60s at McDonalds. The shakes were thicker and they used more coffee and thinner filters to make
decent restaurant cofee for the time (even a moderately premium grade coffee). Again, they started
the thicker filters/less coffee in the 60s. Probably when about half the managers stopped drinking
the stuff...

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

[email hidden] (Allister McLaren) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"M. Barbee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>... This is the weird thing. A) family lives
close enough to school for walking. B) parents fear for children walking in public on their
own. Solution - Drive the kids to school. Does it never occur to them to WALK WITH THEIR KIDS
to school?

I was inspired to see a while back my neighbour out on his bicycle with his 10-year-old twin girls
(also on bicycles). It was a school day and that time of the morning for heading off to school, so
presumably he was biking his daughters to school.

I do think it would have been easier a half century ago to live without a car, though. What is
happening now is a situation where non-drivers are not even guaranteed full civil rights. In another
forum we have been discussing the myriad of incidents in which private businesses refuse to accept
any form of ID _other_ than a driving license. There are cases of people being refused video rental
facilites, library cards, diners cards, payment by cheque or credit card, border entry etc because
they naively supplied passports, birth certificates, social security numbers, whatever, but only the
driving license was acceptable. So in other words, non-driver= non-citizen.

EFR Ile de France

Just zis Guy said:

David L. Johnson said:

I'm not saying that kids aren't coddled today, and couldn't benefit from a little exercise. But
this trend is decades long, not something new.

The downward trend in exercise is not new, nor is the upward trend in poor diet, but the
compbination of the two has led to a very steep rise in obesity and related disorders in a very
short time. It seems like we're locked into positive-feedback at present, on the transport issue
at least.

(Tanya Quinn) said:

I was inspired to see a while back my neighbour out on his bicycle with his 10-year-old twin girls
(also on bicycles). It was a school day and that time of the morning for heading off to school, so
presumably he was biking his daughters to school.

We have one of these for the school run: <chapmancentral.demon.co.ukme nOpen ↗
u2>

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Elisa Francesca Roselli said:

non-driver= non-citizen

At that point I would move to Canada :-)

(posting under the influence of Mike Moore)

Guy
===
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
chapmancentral.demon.co.ukchapmancentral.demon.co.ukOpen ↗

Elisa Francesca Roselli <[email hidden]> wrote:
: credit card, border entry etc because they naively supplied passports, birth certificates, social
: security numbers, whatever, but only the driving license was acceptable. So in other words, non-
: driver= non-citizen.

in all fairness most if not all states issue a state id in leiu of a driver's license (that is, you
can have one or the other but not both) that is meant to address exactly this problem.

i had one in minnesota for years. it looks nearly the same as a driver's license with a different
coloured strip across the top and instead of "Driver's License" (or whatever) said "State
Identification" (or whatever).

never had a problem with anyone accepting it.
--
david reuteler [email hidden]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 16 Jan 2004 17:25:46 +0100, Elisa Francesca Roselli <Elisa.Francesca.Roselli@quadratec-

software.com said:

non-driver= non-citizen

At that point I would move to Canada :-)

(posting under the influence of Mike Moore)

Guy

Unfortunately also in Canada there are some places which insist on a drivers license for ID.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Mike Latondresse mikelat@no_spamshaw.ca said:

Quoted message said:

Unfortunately also in Canada there are some places which insist on a drivers license for ID.

Err where, cuz I had better not go there.

In BC, the BCID card is good enuff, I think. I dunno how accepted it would be as picture ID in other
provinces.

cheers, Tom

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