Warrior diet (is it possible?)

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi
I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while also
being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth can you
follow this diet ?!
I mean, the diet is well known among dieters who want to lose fat or
are overweight and obese
This is easy to understand as they need to undereat anyway being in a
caloric deficiency so the night meal doesn't have to be that big and
they must still burn their own fat as fuel

But I wonder as for a maintenance or growth diet how is it possible to
use a Warrior diet!
The author himself claims that it is suited for athletes but what he
fails to mention is the most logical aspect, the fact that ruins a
beautiful theory and the reason why humans instinctively eat more times
a day: the size of our stomach

The author consider the amount of food you can eat in a sitting limited
by how much food you have eaten before, so if you have undereat in the
morning you can overeat in the evening, but actually the limiting
factor is the small size of your stomach.

If an athletes needs 3000 calories and suddenly he or she should have
to consume all those calories in a sitting it doesn't matter how much
he or she underate during the day because the stomach is not big enough
to contain all the foods necessary to provide so many calories

Let alone enough protein!

Warrior diet menus I have seen call for 1 pound of meat in your only
meal of the day but how can you get enough proteins from a pound of
meat?
And mind you that consuming protein powder during the day would be
cheating big time on everything the diet is about and is supposed to
work why

Why people not suffering from famine or starvation on non-western
countries never become obese?

Because it's impossible to get so many calories from so little caloric
dense foods
Junk food and processed food are needed because they provide three
times as many calories in the same bulk of food. For example a McDonald
meal can easily provide 1500 calories but this is because the refined
starches, oils and so on

It's really impossible to overeat on natural foods that's why there are
no obese people
where there are no processed foods of any kind
If you then begin the meal with fiber rich salad as the diet suggests
there will be even less room for enough food

Bottom line is that as long as you've weight to lose this will work but
what after that?
The typical warrior menus I have seen provide no more than 1000
calories and if someone keep eating 1000 calories daily even if he or
she has no more fat to lose he or she will soon starve and become
emaciated

The reason I'm asking this question is that I've tried the diet for two
weeks and I've lost a lot of lean body mass because I underate without
problems during the day but I underate a night too because I couldn't
consume more than what I used to consume in a normal meal because my
stomach couldn't hold more food and if I insisted on eating I would get
painful signal it was full and would probably vomit everything
So since I couldn't eat more food than my stomach could handle I was
literally starving myself with one big meal a day and the effects were
not pleasant

What's your opinion?
How can you consume enough food and calories and protein while
consuming just one meal a day even if the size of your stomach is not
suited to hold more than 1000 calories of bulky foods (meaning: meat,
fish, eggs, grains, veggies, legumes ... ) ?

Thanks
Davide

Cue Steve's religious soap box sermon. And before you take his advice, ask
him how much he weighs.

What do I think? The word "stupid" comes to mind. Listen, the guys who
follow this do it as almost a cultish thing. Any science based nutrition
advice will tell you it's stupid as well.

-Larry

Davide said:

I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth
can you follow this diet ?!

....

If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing athletes,
who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may be
valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you
won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these concerns
are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the amount
of protein.

I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night - that's
what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious though,
so I wouldn't adopt it. I exercise 40-60 min every day, sometimes up
to 2 hours on weekends. Every other day I train for chinups with the
added weight. My last training was some warming sets, then 3 sets of 5
reps with 110lb plus 3 sets of 2 reps with 135 lb. On that day I also
do running or leg exercises, bodyweight dips, shoulder press. On
alternate days I do squats, some presses (e.g. benchpress), and
muscleups: http://home.nc.rr.com/netsink/DZMuscleUp.wmv

Larry Hodges said:

Cue Steve's religious soap box sermon. And before you take his
advice, ask him how much he weighs.

What do I think? The word "stupid" comes to mind. Listen, the guys
who follow this do it as almost a cultish thing. Any science based
nutrition advice will tell you it's stupid as well.

Steve may speak for himself. My weight on such diet have been 170 to
180 lb with body fat below 7%. There is solid scientific support for
intermittent fasting being health promoting.

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth
can you follow this diet ?!

...

If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing athletes,
who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may be
valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you
won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these concerns
are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the amount
of protein.

I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night - that's
what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious though,
so I wouldn't adopt it.

Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the
health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of the
day.
But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight?
I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you undereat
at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to me that the
author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone who is starving
and while I don't care for anecdotal rumors like that it may mean
something

Let's say you're trying to maintain your weight, that you've reached
your perfect weight and you have no more fat to lose. Chances are you
might need at least 2000 calories daily even more if you're tall and
train everyday
Let's say 2500 calories day. You eat vegetables and drink veggie juices
on the morning and when it's night you must consume 2500 calories in a
sitting, now I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that
much but your stomach won't

If we calculate how much food is needed to get 2500 calories in term of
mere bulk it's a lot more than what my or your stomach can hold. That's
why I wonder how don't starve while eating just one big meal at night

Thanks
Davide

Davide said:

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth
can you follow this diet ?!

If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing athletes,
who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may be
valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you
won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these concerns
are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the amount
of protein.

I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night - that's
what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious though,
so I wouldn't adopt it.

Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the
health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of the
day. But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight?

My weight is stable, but higher than what it would be if I weren't
training.

Quoted message said:

I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you
undereat at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to
me that the author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone
who is starving

You can see that I didn't end up looking gaunt and wasted from the
clip in my previous post.

Quoted message said:

I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that much but
your stomach won't

By the time stomach tells me to stop, I'm past being hungry. That's
all there is to it. There is one way to find if it works for you - try
and see if you lose too much weight or become too hungry during the
day. There are adaptations that take place during intermittent fasting
including more efficient utilization of protein.

One thing I forgot to say - most optimal is to eat right after the
training.

You can also try to have something easily digestible, perhaps a
protein shake right before the training if you worry about not being
able to squeeze in those extra calories (just how much extra calories
per training session do you intend to spend?). Then eat the rest of
the food when you come back home from the gym.

As far as the increased protein needs, I'll post it again:

Resistance training
----------------------------
"In highly trained powerlifters and bodybuilders, in whom muscle mass
is high but stable, it is unlikely that their dietary protein
requirements are elevated much more than those of a sedentary person";
and "All things considered, it is abundantly clear that any protein
requirement set for strength-training athletes is of little relevance"
(http://tinyurl.com/3jurp ; PMID: 15212752)

Endurance training
---------------------------
"It appears that low- and moderate-intensity endurance exercise does
not affect dietary protein requirements... For the well- trained
endurance athlete training 4 to 5 d/wk for longer than 60 min, there
appears to be a very modest increase in dietary protein requirements"
(http://tinyurl.com/3qafz ; PMID: 15212749)

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide <[email hidden]> wrote:
> I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
> also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on earth
> can you follow this diet ?!

If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing athletes,
who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may be
valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you
won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these concerns
are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the amount

[> >> of protein.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night - that's
what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious though,
so I wouldn't adopt it.

Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the
health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of the
day. But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight?

My weight is stable, but higher than what it would be if I weren't
training.

Quoted message said:

I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you
undereat at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to
me that the author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone
who is starving

You can see that I didn't end up looking gaunt and wasted from the
clip in my previous post.

So, why do you think the author got wasted and gaunt
Does it mean that the diet may work for smaller people that requires
less calories or that it can't be continued indefinitely?

What about then cycling?
Like 1 week of warrior diet out of 4 weeks, the other three just normal
more meals a day?
Or two weeks out of 4
Would that provide the beneficials of alternate fasting seen on
longevity studies while also taking care of the problem of not getting
enough calorie all in all?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that much but
your stomach won't

By the time stomach tells me to stop, I'm past being hungry. That's
all there is to it.

Exactly, and I'm sure that when you're past hungry you still haven't
consumed enough calories or the calories that you need and would have
consumed if you had instead consumed more meals

Quoted message said:

There is one way to find if it works for you - try
and see if you lose too much weight or become too hungry during the
day. There are adaptations that take place during intermittent fasting
including more efficient utilization of protein.

One thing I forgot to say - most optimal is to eat right after the
training.

The problem is that I train on the morning, I don't think training at 9
pm is that good or would allow you to train at your max potential

Quoted message said:

You can also try to have something easily digestible, perhaps a
protein shake right before the training if you worry about not being
able to squeeze in those extra calories (just how much extra calories
per training session do you intend to spend?). Then eat the rest of
the food when you come back home from the gym.

So, this is how my Warrior days were:

Didn't eat nothing except vegetable juices and miso soup and vegetable
broth till 8 pm without hunger.

At 8 pm I began my big meal with a small salad, then three eggs and
half a big avocado
This was a typical meal and nowhere as big as it would have
theoretically supposed to be
90 minutes later I would eat 150 grams of whole pasta with half pack of
cottage cheese
That's it: sunk !
I couldn't eat anything more:

194 calories, 16 grams protein
150 calories, 3 grams of protein
103 calories, 12 grams of protein
400 calories, 20 grams of protein
200 calories - oils

This is indeed 1000 calories and 51 grams of proteins and it's starving
big time for everyone let alone someone who exercises. Even for women
on diet that shouldn't IMO go below 20% of their BMR when dieting would
consume at least 1200 calories when they're trying to lose a lot of
weight
This suits the menus I've seen: even people who say they eat a lot on
the warrior diet rarely exceed 1000 calories in their two night meals
unless they introduce caloric dense junk food in the diet and it's no
wonder they're losing weight.

If you cook all those 1000 calories and put them on the table you will
see is an awful lot of food and you may wonder how all that food will
ever suits the fist size of your small stomach. So those 1000 calories
where even more than my stomach could normally handle, just figure what
is they were more than that

What do you eat usually?
Can you tell me exactly each food and how much you eat and within how
many meals and what time of the day?

Quoted message said:

As far as the increased protein needs, I'll post it again:

Resistance training
----------------------------
"In highly trained powerlifters and bodybuilders, in whom muscle mass
is high but stable, it is unlikely that their dietary protein
requirements are elevated much more than those of a sedentary person";
and "All things considered, it is abundantly clear that any protein
requirement set for strength-training athletes is of little relevance"
(http://tinyurl.com/3jurp ; PMID: 15212752)

Endurance training
---------------------------
"It appears that low- and moderate-intensity endurance exercise does
not affect dietary protein requirements... For the well- trained
endurance athlete training 4 to 5 d/wk for longer than 60 min, there
appears to be a very modest increase in dietary protein requirements"
(http://tinyurl.com/3qafz ; PMID: 15212749)

"Although contrary to traditional belief, recent scientific information
collected on physically active individuals tends to indicate that
regular exercise increases daily protein requirements; however, the
precise details remain to be worked out. Based on laboratory measures,
daily protein requirements are increased by perhaps as much as 100% vs.
recommendations for sedentary individuals (1.6-1.8 vs. 0.8 g/kg). Yet
even these intakes are much less than those reported by most athletes.
This may mean that actual requirements are below what is needed to
optimize athletic performance, and so the debate continues. Numerous
interacting factors including energy intake, carbohydrate availability,
exercise intensity, duration and type, dietary protein quality,
training history, gender, age, timing of nutrient intake and the like
make this topic extremely complex"
[PMID: 11023001]

"This paper reviews the factors (exercise intensity, carbohydrate
availability, exercise type, energy balance, gender, exercise training,
age, and timing of nutrient intake or subsequent exercise sessions)
thought to influence protein need. Although there remains some debate,
recent evidence suggests that dietary protein need increases with
rigorous physical exercise. Those involved in strength training might
need to consume as much as 1.6 to 1.7 g protein x kg(-1) x day(-1)
(approximately twice the current RDA) while those undergoing endurance
training might need about 1.2 to 1.6 g x kg(-1) x day(-1)
(approximately 1.5 times the current RDA). Future longitudinal studies
are needed to confirm these recommendations and asses whether these
protein intakes can enhance exercise performance. Despite the
frequently expressed concern about adverse effects of high protein
intake, there is no evidence that protein intakes in the range
suggested will have adverse effects in healthy individuals."
[PMID: 9841962]

"In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength
training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above
current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements
for young healthy males."
[PMID: 1474076]

I'm not saying there is a need for consuming huge amount of protein
They're right with that: there's no need for more protein than the RDA
suggests for building the extra muscle mass, muscle is mostly water and
the protein required to build the maximum amount of muscle that can be
put on in a week is already covered by the RDA

But when you look at the overall nitrogen balance though you see that
there are conditions which raise the amount of protein needed to remain
a nitrogen balance
The reason is that other things affect the nitrogen balance and the
need for more protein, for example exercises increases protein turnover
and the body keep using proteins as a substrate during exercise no
fatter how much fat you have to burn instead or how much glycogen and
glucose you could provide to the body.
For example when dieting the amount of protein needed to maintain
nitrogen balance goes up and if you're a beginner it goes up a lot
If face both the papers you cited and the ones I cited agree that
there's slightly increased need for protein. If you consider that there
are bodybuilders consuming 300 grams of protein in a sitting you can
see we both agree on this.
A good amount to be sure to remain in nitrogen balance is IMO 1g/pound
or else 0.80/pound.

Davide

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

Larry Hodges said:

Cue Steve's religious soap box sermon. And before you take his
advice, ask him how much he weighs.

What do I think? The word "stupid" comes to mind. Listen, the guys
who follow this do it as almost a cultish thing. Any science based
nutrition advice will tell you it's stupid as well.

Steve may speak for himself. My weight on such diet have been 170 to
180 lb with body fat below 7%. There is solid scientific support for
intermittent fasting being health promoting.

I have not read such research. Would like to read some however. Can you
direct me to the studies you feel support fasting? I'm not convinced
fasting is helpful or needed.

--
Will Brink @ http://www.brinkzone.com/

WillBrink ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

DZ said:

Larry Hodges said:

Cue Steve's religious soap box sermon. And before you take his
advice, ask him how much he weighs.

What do I think? The word "stupid" comes to mind. Listen, the guys
who follow this do it as almost a cultish thing. Any science based
nutrition advice will tell you it's stupid as well.

Steve may speak for himself. My weight on such diet have been 170 to
180 lb with body fat below 7%. There is solid scientific support for
intermittent fasting being health promoting.

I have not read such research. Would like to read some however. Can you
direct me to the studies you feel support fasting? I'm not convinced
fasting is helpful or needed.

I think there only studied on primates which supposedly apply to humans
too
Otherwise there's just the kind of dated licterature of physicians that
empirically helped people heal their ailments with fasting, althought
they may have been misinterpreted the reason why since they didn't have
the knowledge we have today: I'm talking about Dr Shelton, Dr Mosseri,
Dr Gian Cursio

The only updated and scientific body of work is a book by the physician
Joel Fuhrman which is filled with scientific references as well as the
information on his clinical practice with fasting

http://tinyurl.com/pkfwa

Dr Fuhrman is very scientific in his metodology, for example he does
point out the correlation between choleresterol levels and heart
disease. As we know the correlation is just a theory and the
cholesterol friendly theory is that indeed there are cholesterola
plaques in the arteries when there's heart disease because cholesterol
is there to healing the arterial lesions ... we will never know ....
but the correlation is there, under of studied shows it and Fuhrman
books are always full of references

So despire certain ideas that you won't agree about, because you
interpret those studies in a different ways than he does, he still
known his science and the empirical fact alone of the effect of fasting
on human health can't be overlooked either

Davide

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

DZ ha scritto:
> Davide <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
> > also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on
> > earth
> > can you follow this diet ?!
>
> If you are wondering about the optimal diet for competing
> athletes,
> who try to gain edge whatever legal means, then your concerns may
> be
> valid. If you have in mind overall fitness, and don't care if you
> won't achieve all 100% of your athletic potential, then these
> concerns
> are exaggerated, in terms of needed calories and especially the
> amount

[> >> of protein.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>
> I suppose by the Warrior diet you mean eating only at night -
> that's
> what I do. The name "Warrior" is far too corny and pretentious
> though,
> so I wouldn't adopt it.

Okay, I agree that the "esoteric" side should be separated from the
health and diet so let's just call it eating at night instead of
the
day. But I wonder are you trying to lose, mantain or gain weight?

My weight is stable, but higher than what it would be if I weren't
training.

Quoted message said:

I can understand how this diet works for weight loss since you
undereat at night but what about maintenance? Someone mentioned to
me that the author of the diet looks gaunt and wasted like someone
who is starving

You can see that I didn't end up looking gaunt and wasted from the
clip in my previous post.

So, why do you think the author got wasted and gaunt
Does it mean that the diet may work for smaller people that requires
less calories or that it can't be continued indefinitely?

What about then cycling?
Like 1 week of warrior diet out of 4 weeks, the other three just
normal
more meals a day?
Or two weeks out of 4
Would that provide the beneficials of alternate fasting seen on
longevity studies while also taking care of the problem of not getting
enough calorie all in all?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I may believe that your hunger will allow you to eat that much but
your stomach won't

By the time stomach tells me to stop, I'm past being hungry. That's
all there is to it.

Exactly, and I'm sure that when you're past hungry you still haven't
consumed enough calories or the calories that you need and would have
consumed if you had instead consumed more meals

Quoted message said:

There is one way to find if it works for you - try
and see if you lose too much weight or become too hungry during the
day. There are adaptations that take place during intermittent
fasting
including more efficient utilization of protein.

One thing I forgot to say - most optimal is to eat right after the
training.

The problem is that I train on the morning, I don't think training at
9
pm is that good or would allow you to train at your max potential

Quoted message said:

You can also try to have something easily digestible, perhaps a
protein shake right before the training if you worry about not being
able to squeeze in those extra calories (just how much extra calories
per training session do you intend to spend?). Then eat the rest of
the food when you come back home from the gym.

So, this is how my Warrior days were:

Didn't eat nothing except vegetable juices and miso soup and vegetable
broth till 8 pm without hunger.

At 8 pm I began my big meal with a small salad, then three eggs and
half a big avocado
This was a typical meal and nowhere as big as it would have
theoretically supposed to be
90 minutes later I would eat 150 grams of whole pasta with half pack
of
cottage cheese
That's it: sunk !
I couldn't eat anything more:

194 calories, 16 grams protein
150 calories, 3 grams of protein
103 calories, 12 grams of protein
400 calories, 20 grams of protein
200 calories - oils

This is indeed 1000 calories and 51 grams of proteins and it's
starving
big time for everyone let alone someone who exercises. Even for women
on diet that shouldn't IMO go below 20% of their BMR when dieting
would
consume at least 1200 calories when they're trying to lose a lot of
weight
This suits the menus I've seen: even people who say they eat a lot on
the warrior diet rarely exceed 1000 calories in their two night meals
unless they introduce caloric dense junk food in the diet and it's no
wonder they're losing weight.

If you cook all those 1000 calories and put them on the table you will
see is an awful lot of food and you may wonder how all that food will
ever suits the fist size of your small stomach. So those 1000 calories
where even more than my stomach could normally handle, just figure
what
is they were more than that

What do you eat usually?
Can you tell me exactly each food and how much you eat and within how
many meals and what time of the day?

Quoted message said:

As far as the increased protein needs, I'll post it again:

Resistance training
----------------------------
"In highly trained powerlifters and bodybuilders, in whom muscle mass
is high but stable, it is unlikely that their dietary protein
requirements are elevated much more than those of a sedentary
person";
and "All things considered, it is abundantly clear that any protein
requirement set for strength-training athletes is of little
relevance"
(http://tinyurl.com/3jurp ; PMID: 15212752)

Endurance training
---------------------------
"It appears that low- and moderate-intensity endurance exercise does
not affect dietary protein requirements... For the well- trained
endurance athlete training 4 to 5 d/wk for longer than 60 min, there
appears to be a very modest increase in dietary protein requirements"
(http://tinyurl.com/3qafz ; PMID: 15212749)

"Although contrary to traditional belief, recent scientific
information
collected on physically active individuals tends to indicate that
regular exercise increases daily protein requirements; however, the
precise details remain to be worked out. Based on laboratory measures,
daily protein requirements are increased by perhaps as much as 100%
vs.
recommendations for sedentary individuals (1.6-1.8 vs. 0.8 g/kg). Yet
even these intakes are much less than those reported by most athletes.
This may mean that actual requirements are below what is needed to
optimize athletic performance, and so the debate continues. Numerous
interacting factors including energy intake, carbohydrate
availability,
exercise intensity, duration and type, dietary protein quality,
training history, gender, age, timing of nutrient intake and the like
make this topic extremely complex"
[PMID: 11023001]

"This paper reviews the factors (exercise intensity, carbohydrate
availability, exercise type, energy balance, gender, exercise
training,
age, and timing of nutrient intake or subsequent exercise sessions)
thought to influence protein need. Although there remains some debate,
recent evidence suggests that dietary protein need increases with
rigorous physical exercise. Those involved in strength training might
need to consume as much as 1.6 to 1.7 g protein x kg(-1) x day(-1)
(approximately twice the current RDA) while those undergoing endurance
training might need about 1.2 to 1.6 g x kg(-1) x day(-1)
(approximately 1.5 times the current RDA). Future longitudinal studies
are needed to confirm these recommendations and asses whether these
protein intakes can enhance exercise performance. Despite the
frequently expressed concern about adverse effects of high protein
intake, there is no evidence that protein intakes in the range
suggested will have adverse effects in healthy individuals."
[PMID: 9841962]

"In summary, protein requirements for athletes performing strength
training are greater than for sedentary individuals and are above
current Canadian and US recommended daily protein intake requirements
for young healthy males."
[PMID: 1474076]

I'm not saying there is a need for consuming huge amount of protein
They're right with that: there's no need for more protein than the RDA
suggests for building the extra muscle mass, muscle is mostly water
and
the protein required to build the maximum amount of muscle that can be
put on in a week is already covered by the RDA

But when you look at the overall nitrogen balance though you see that
there are conditions which raise the amount of protein needed to
remain
a nitrogen balance
The reason is that other things affect the nitrogen balance and the
need for more protein, for example exercises increases protein
turnover
and the body keep using proteins as a substrate during exercise no
fatter how much fat you have to burn instead or how much glycogen and
glucose you could provide to the body.
For example when dieting the amount of protein needed to maintain
nitrogen balance goes up and if you're a beginner it goes up a lot
If face both the papers you cited and the ones I cited agree that
there's slightly increased need for protein. If you consider that
there
are bodybuilders consuming 300 grams of protein in a sitting you can
see we both agree on this.
A good amount to be sure to remain in nitrogen balance is IMO 1g/pound
or else 0.80/pound.

The eating approach I follow, which is the same as DZ, works well for
me. I'm very happy with my body composition. I have grown very slowly
leaner and more muscular as the years have worn on. I maintain my
bodyweight by simply getting on the scale every morning - if I'm gaining
weight, I eat less, and if I'm too light, I eat more.

I do cycle my WD-style eating - I'm what you'd call a social eater, and
on the weekends, I typically have a nice, big, carbohydrate-filled
brunch one or both days with my wife and kids, and just generally eat
whatever I want. During the week I eat less during the day, fewer carbs
overall, and fewer total calories per day. Typically my weight is
highest on Monday mornings and lowest on Friday or Saturday but the
difference isn't much, maybe 3 lbs. or so.

One thing I don't think gets mentioned enough in connection with this
style of eating - the body's dependence on regular feedings can, like
just about anything else about our bodies, be trained. Most people who
try WD style eating and fail do so for the same reasons a new weight
lifter might fail - too much change too soon. I took my good old time
about getting used to eating this way and looking back now, I'm glad I
did.

I'm 51 years old, 153 lbs. this morning, 5' 8" tall, and deadlifted 364
lbs. in competition in the 148 lb. weight class and raw division of the
AAU just last year, which is just shy of 2.5 times bodyweight, an
accomplishment I'm very proud of, even if John Hanson thinks it's no big
deal. 🙂

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Steve Freides ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide <[email hidden]> wrote:
> DZ ha scritto:
>> Davide <[email hidden]> wrote:
>> > I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
>> > also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on
>> > earth
>> > can you follow this diet ?!
>>

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The eating approach I follow, which is the same as DZ, works well for
me. I'm very happy with my body composition. I have grown very slowly
leaner and more muscular as the years have worn on. I maintain my
bodyweight by simply getting on the scale every morning - if I'm gaining
weight, I eat less, and if I'm too light, I eat more.

It's not that simple. How do you eat more?
Do you just add a meal per night or do you just add foods to your meal?
The second case is not always possible because there's a limit on the
amount of food your stomach can hold in one sitting, so you can't just
say "I will eat more food tonight" because your stomach won't allow you
too

Quoted message said:

I do cycle my WD-style eating - I'm what you'd call a social eater, and
on the weekends, I typically have a nice, big, carbohydrate-filled
brunch one or both days with my wife and kids, and just generally eat
whatever I want. During the week I eat less during the day, fewer carbs
overall, and fewer total calories per day. Typically my weight is
highest on Monday mornings and lowest on Friday or Saturday but the
difference isn't much, maybe 3 lbs. or so.

One thing I don't think gets mentioned enough in connection with this
style of eating - the body's dependence on regular feedings can, like
just about anything else about our bodies, be trained. Most people who
try WD style eating and fail do so for the same reasons a new weight
lifter might fail - too much change too soon. I took my good old time
about getting used to eating this way and looking back now, I'm glad I
did.

How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

Quoted message said:

I'm 51 years old, 153 lbs. this morning, 5' 8" tall, and deadlifted 364
lbs. in competition in the 148 lb. weight class and raw division of the
AAU just last year, which is just shy of 2.5 times bodyweight, an
accomplishment I'm very proud of, even if John Hanson thinks it's no big
deal. 🙂

How many calories do you consume daily?
So far I've seen a low caloric consumption linked to WD but what about
2500/3000 calories daily, how could someone consume so many calorie in
a single sitting at night?
Again, it's not a matter of will power, hunger, shortage of daily
calories to me is a simple matter of bulk and size, no stomach can bear
the amount of food necessary to get 2500/3000 calories in a sitting

Thanks
Davide

Davide said:

How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

This is the source of your problem. You say, "How do you do this?"
Then you say, "You could do that, but I know that is bad." Except you
are wrong.

When you stop making presumptions like that, you can learn something.

JMW ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

This is the source of your problem. You say, "How do you do this?"
Then you say, "You could do that, but I know that is bad." Except you
are wrong.

Well, I know that the stomach can be stretched but there's still a
limit, I stand by my words that althought the stomach can be stretched
it's impossible to consume 2500 calories in a sitting no matter how
hungry or how much will power you have

Davide

Davide said:

JMW ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

This is the source of your problem. You say, "How do you do this?"
Then you say, "You could do that, but I know that is bad." Except you
are wrong.

Well, I know that the stomach can be stretched but there's still a
limit, I stand by my words that althought the stomach can be stretched
it's impossible to consume 2500 calories in a sitting no matter how
hungry or how much will power you have

Then eat less than 2500. You'll just stabilize at a lower weight. You
may decide that you don't want a lower weight, but that's an entirely
another matter. I don't eat past being hungry - it simply wouldn't
make any sense from my point of view. I certainly don't stuff myself
to the point of "stomach stretching".

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

JMW ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
>Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
>to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

This is the source of your problem. You say, "How do you do this?"
Then you say, "You could do that, but I know that is bad." Except you
are wrong.

Well, I know that the stomach can be stretched but there's still a
limit, I stand by my words that althought the stomach can be stretched
it's impossible to consume 2500 calories in a sitting no matter how
hungry or how much will power you have

Then eat less than 2500. You'll just stabilize at a lower weight. You
may decide that you don't want a lower weight, but that's an entirely
another matter. I don't eat past being hungry - it simply wouldn't
make any sense from my point of view. I certainly don't stuff myself
to the point of "stomach stretching".

How can you stabilize at a lower weight?
I mean, you say like having less muscle to feed?
But 2500 is not much, it's a very normal caloric intake for someone who
is active
Stabilizing at a lower weight would just mean wasting your muscle and
still being in a steady caloric deficiency. All the people I know who
underate never stabilized at a lower weight because of this but keps
losing weight even when they're were just skin and bones
How many calories do you consume daily?
How many calories you believe you can consume in one sitting?
Do you have just one meal or also a second meal?

Davide

Hey DZ
I can't see your video, it doesn't work
Can you please upload it on www.yousendit.com?

Thanks
Davide

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Steve Freides ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DZ ha scritto:

> Davide <[email hidden]> wrote:
> > DZ ha scritto:
> >> Davide <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >> > I'd like to know from someone who follows the Warrior diet while
> >> > also being involved in physical exercises of any kind, how on
> >> > earth
> >> > can you follow this diet ?!
> >>

<snip>

Quoted message said:

The eating approach I follow, which is the same as DZ, works well for
me. I'm very happy with my body composition. I have grown very slowly
leaner and more muscular as the years have worn on. I maintain my
bodyweight by simply getting on the scale every morning - if I'm gaining
weight, I eat less, and if I'm too light, I eat more.

It's not that simple. How do you eat more?
Do you just add a meal per night or do you just add foods to your meal?
The second case is not always possible because there's a limit on the
amount of food your stomach can hold in one sitting, so you can't just
say "I will eat more food tonight" because your stomach won't allow you
too

Quoted message said:

I do cycle my WD-style eating - I'm what you'd call a social eater, and
on the weekends, I typically have a nice, big, carbohydrate-filled
brunch one or both days with my wife and kids, and just generally eat
whatever I want. During the week I eat less during the day, fewer carbs
overall, and fewer total calories per day. Typically my weight is
highest on Monday mornings and lowest on Friday or Saturday but the
difference isn't much, maybe 3 lbs. or so.

One thing I don't think gets mentioned enough in connection with this
style of eating - the body's dependence on regular feedings can, like
just about anything else about our bodies, be trained. Most people who
try WD style eating and fail do so for the same reasons a new weight
lifter might fail - too much change too soon. I took my good old time
about getting used to eating this way and looking back now, I'm glad I
did.

How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

May I humbly suggest you try reading the Warrior Diet book? If you'd like
to buy it and have me make a commission, you can use this link:
http://www.kbnj.com/wd.htm - one of the things those of us who eat like this
do is, if we're hungry a couple of hours after dinner, we just eat again.
It's not all that hard to figure out. The WD model isn't one meal per day,
it's most of the day undereating and a period of time in the evening
overeating. Please also note that neither is it a strict fast during the
day. The concept, as I tried to suggest earlier, is cycling your food
consumption. Eat little or nothing, then eat a lot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm 51 years old, 153 lbs. this morning, 5' 8" tall, and deadlifted 364
lbs. in competition in the 148 lb. weight class and raw division of the
AAU just last year, which is just shy of 2.5 times bodyweight, an
accomplishment I'm very proud of, even if John Hanson thinks it's no big
deal. 🙂

How many calories do you consume daily?

I haven't a clue.

Quoted message said:

So far I've seen a low caloric consumption linked to WD but what about
2500/3000 calories daily, how could someone consume so many calorie in
a single sitting at night?

See above - it's not a single sitting necessarily.

Quoted message said:

Again, it's not a matter of will power, hunger, shortage of daily
calories to me is a simple matter of bulk and size, no stomach can bear
the amount of food necessary to get 2500/3000 calories in a sitting

I can eat, at a single sitting, more than most people, even given my small
size. It's not all about will power, either - you do get used to this
approach and you come to like it, at least I did. I truly value what I feel
like during the undereating period, and likewise like feeling full and
relaxed in the evenings.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Quoted message said:

Thanks
Davide

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

JMW ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy thing
to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either

This is the source of your problem. You say, "How do you do this?"
Then you say, "You could do that, but I know that is bad." Except you
are wrong.

Well, I know that the stomach can be stretched but there's still a
limit, I stand by my words that althought the stomach can be stretched
it's impossible to consume 2500 calories in a sitting no matter how
hungry or how much will power you have

You're funny.

Half the attendees at a Vegas all-you-can-eat buffet can eat 2500 calories
in a sitting.

Two Mac Grandes, two large fries, and a small chocolate shake (I wouldn't
want to be a piggie) would do it. I could eat that with both eyes tied
behind my back.

David

"Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DZ ha scritto:

Quoted message said:

Davide said:

JMW ha scritto:

> "Davide" <[email hidden]> wrote:
> >How do you train your body by eating more in a sitting?
> >Simple, you stretch the stomach and I know this is not an healthy
> >thing
> >to do just like getting the stomach atrophy is not healthy either
>
> This is the source of your problem. You say, "How do you do this?"
> Then you say, "You could do that, but I know that is bad." Except you
> are wrong.

Well, I know that the stomach can be stretched but there's still a
limit, I stand by my words that althought the stomach can be stretched
it's impossible to consume 2500 calories in a sitting no matter how
hungry or how much will power you have

Then eat less than 2500. You'll just stabilize at a lower weight. You
may decide that you don't want a lower weight, but that's an entirely
another matter. I don't eat past being hungry - it simply wouldn't
make any sense from my point of view. I certainly don't stuff myself
to the point of "stomach stretching".

How can you stabilize at a lower weight?
I mean, you say like having less muscle to feed?
But 2500 is not much, it's a very normal caloric intake for someone who
is active
Stabilizing at a lower weight would just mean wasting your muscle and
still being in a steady caloric deficiency. All the people I know who
underate never stabilized at a lower weight because of this but keps
losing weight even when they're were just skin and bones

Bingo!

Quoted message said:

How many calories do you consume daily?
How many calories you believe you can consume in one sitting?
Do you have just one meal or also a second meal?

Davide

David Cohen said:

Two Mac Grandes, two large fries, and a small chocolate shake (I wouldn't
want to be a piggie) would do it. I could eat that with both eyes tied
behind my back.

Innit.

The chocolate shake reminds me that some or most people find it easier
to consume liquid calories if feeling too full, too soon is the
problem.

I bet you could get 1,000 cals into a protein shake fairly easily if
you chuck some other goodies in there (milk / yoghurt / eggs /
whatever...hell even ice cream maybe. Doubt you'd feel that full
either. Follow that up with some decent solid food and you'd be on
your way.

Ellis