Warming Up?

Joe Humble said:

David Cohen said:

Bill wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Is it really necessary to warm up before working out? If so, how?

One light set per muscle group to be worked.

Quoted message said:

I wonder if cavepeople did one light set before sprinting away from a
hungry lion.

Apples and oranges. There's no adrenaline rush and flight response
before a workout.

David Cohen said:

"Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

David Cohen said:

I think "warming up" is highly overrated. But, to each his own.

Definitely not true for endurance athletes - if you just go out and
hammer it cold, you won't hurt yourself, but you will produce a [censored]
performance. You need to get your heart rate up, blood flow through
muscles up, et cetera, before you start or you build up a load of
lactic acid in the first
minute that you wouldn't otherwise.

This is what I believe to be mostly urban myth. If I sneek up behind
you and fire my little 12 ounce .357 magnun (ow ow ow ow), your heart
rate will be WAY up, but it doesn't do much for your athletic
performance. Blood flow through the muscles? Where was the blood
going before the "warm up"? Get your body temperature up? Take a hot
bath. Feel like you're better able to perform physically? Don't think
so.

Well, you can explain to me how it is that the Concept II rowing machine
tells me I pull a split about 2s faster when I warm up properly, then.

You can explain

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16177615&query_hl=1

too. That study finds that after the warm-up athletes doing a 3km bike TT
produce in the first 1km 384/386W (two different warm up routines) versus
344 for no warm up. Huge difference. Final result is an improvement of about
2.5% - about the difference between first and last place in a decent quality
field.

Blood flow through the muscles - if capillaries aren't dilated then blood
flow is not huge, aka you do not have a pump. Doesn't take very long for the
capillaries to dilate, but 30-60 seconds of hard work is enough time for a
lot of lactic acid to build up.

Certainly it's not going to make much difference warming up for a long race
where you probably aren't working flat out for at least the first few
minutes; but something in the 2-10 minutes range where you have to go out
hard right away, you need to warm up.

Looking down the pubmed list -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16095424&query_hl=1
for vertical leap.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15966350&query_hl=1
longer cycling time trial - warming up is still useful but less percentage
improvement.

one that might make you a bit more happy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15903386&query_hl=1
weights stuff.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15870639&query_hl=1
another one with cycling - doing sprints to warm up is not clever,
apparently...

Can't find anything dealing with normal weights work (as opposed to
explosive stuff). Couple of things that look like they might, but no
abstract available.

Peter

"Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

David Cohen said:

"Peter Allen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

David Cohen wrote:
>
> I think "warming up" is highly overrated. But, to each his own.

Definitely not true for endurance athletes - if you just go out and
hammer it cold, you won't hurt yourself, but you will produce a [censored]
performance. You need to get your heart rate up, blood flow through
muscles up, et cetera, before you start or you build up a load of
lactic acid in the first
minute that you wouldn't otherwise.

This is what I believe to be mostly urban myth. If I sneek up behind
you and fire my little 12 ounce .357 magnun (ow ow ow ow), your heart
rate will be WAY up, but it doesn't do much for your athletic
performance. Blood flow through the muscles? Where was the blood
going before the "warm up"? Get your body temperature up? Take a hot
bath. Feel like you're better able to perform physically? Don't think
so.

Well, you can explain to me how it is that the Concept II rowing machine
tells me I pull a split about 2s faster when I warm up properly, then.

Either there is a small benefit, in a specific length/intensity endurance
event, to some degree of warming up, or it's entirely psychological, or some
combination thereof. Does not justify the lengthy warm up routines of most
people.

Quoted message said:

You can explain

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16177615&query_hl=1

too. That study finds that after the warm-up athletes doing a 3km bike TT
produce in the first 1km 384/386W (two different warm up routines) versus
344 for no warm up. Huge difference. Final result is an improvement of
about
2.5% - about the difference between first and last place in a decent
quality
field.

"During endurance events of intermediate duration (4-5 min), performance is
enhanced by warm-up irrespective of warm-up intensity." The group that did
the "easy" warmup did as well as the group that did the "hard" warmup. Still
my point. I never claimed warmup was totally a waste of time (at least I
don't think I did). The word I used was "overrated".

Quoted message said:

Blood flow through the muscles - if capillaries aren't dilated then blood
flow is not huge, aka you do not have a pump. Doesn't take very long for
the
capillaries to dilate, but 30-60 seconds of hard work is enough time for a
lot of lactic acid to build up.

So, a little easy brief warmup might help. Little, brief, easy...like an
easy set that I originally recommended.

Quoted message said:

Certainly it's not going to make much difference warming up for a long
race
where you probably aren't working flat out for at least the first few
minutes; but something in the 2-10 minutes range where you have to go out
hard right away, you need to warm up.

Looking down the pubmed list -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16095424&query_hl=1
for vertical leap.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15966350&query_hl=1
longer cycling time trial - warming up is still useful but less percentage
improvement.

one that might make you a bit more happy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15903386&query_hl=1
weights stuff.

No effect on weight lifting with warmups.

Quoted message said:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15870639&query_hl=1
another one with cycling - doing sprints to warm up is not clever,
apparently...

Can't find anything dealing with normal weights work (as opposed to
explosive stuff). Couple of things that look like they might, but no
abstract available.

You've made good points. I originally recommended one light set per muscle
group for lifting, and that warmups are overrated. I'd like to modify that
by adding, a little bit of easy warmup might be useful, especially for
endurance events.

Gee, am I reasonable, or what?

David

On 8 Oct 2005 03:59:09 -0700, "David Cohen" <[email hidden]>
wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

spodosaurus said:

David Cohen said:

Bill wrote:

>Is it really necessary to warm up before working out? If so, how?

One light set per muscle group to be worked.

I think one light set is pretty much a minimum. My preferences is to use
a minimum of two progressively heavier sets as a warm up. This has the
added benefit of giving me a little nervous system primer so I can get
the form just right when I hit my workout weight for that day. This is
better with heavy or compound movements, though. If I'm doing laterals I
generally have already done my compound movements so the area is warmed
and the weight is light enough (comparatived to the heavy compound
movements) that a warmup really isn't necessary.

Ten to fifteen minutes of biking beforehand may be useful, too. I find
that getting my temperature up makes it a lot easier on my joints during
and after the workout, even if I'm working upper body the effect of that
biking is pretty systemic. It also makes it the rest of the workout
easier on my heart and with breathing.

I think "warming up" is highly overrated. But, to each his own.

Although I think strength athletes may actually hinder performance with
more than a very minimal warm up.

I totally disagree. When I do, for example, 5 sets of 5, I find my
second set to be the hardest and my 4th or 5th set to be my easiest. I
think Elzi posted about this same phenomena shortly before she hit the
high road.

"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

spodosaurus said:

David Cohen wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>Is it really necessary to warm up before working out? If so, how?
>
> One light set per muscle group to be worked.

I think one light set is pretty much a minimum. My preferences is to use
a minimum of two progressively heavier sets as a warm up. This has the
added benefit of giving me a little nervous system primer so I can get
the form just right when I hit my workout weight for that day. This is
better with heavy or compound movements, though. If I'm doing laterals I
generally have already done my compound movements so the area is warmed
and the weight is light enough (comparatived to the heavy compound
movements) that a warmup really isn't necessary.

Ten to fifteen minutes of biking beforehand may be useful, too. I find
that getting my temperature up makes it a lot easier on my joints during
and after the workout, even if I'm working upper body the effect of that
biking is pretty systemic. It also makes it the rest of the workout
easier on my heart and with breathing.

I think "warming up" is highly overrated. But, to each his own.

Although I think strength athletes may actually hinder performance with
more than a very minimal warm up.

I totally disagree. When I do, for example, 5 sets of 5, I find my
second set to be the hardest and my 4th or 5th set to be my easiest. I
think Elzi posted about this same phenomena shortly before she hit the
high road.

Yup, but this may be due to nuerological reasons, and not relate to "warming
up". By warming up, I mean the various methods people go through to "get the
blood flowing", "warm up the muscles", "get the body temperature up", and
various other urban myths.

What you are describing are the actual work sets. What do you do BEFORE the
5 sets to "warm up"?

David

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005 00:53:42 GMT, "David Cohen"
<[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

spodosaurus wrote:
> David Cohen wrote:
> > Bill wrote:
> >
> >>Is it really necessary to warm up before working out? If so, how?
> >
> > One light set per muscle group to be worked.
>
> I think one light set is pretty much a minimum. My preferences is to use
> a minimum of two progressively heavier sets as a warm up. This has the
> added benefit of giving me a little nervous system primer so I can get
> the form just right when I hit my workout weight for that day. This is
> better with heavy or compound movements, though. If I'm doing laterals I
> generally have already done my compound movements so the area is warmed
> and the weight is light enough (comparatived to the heavy compound
> movements) that a warmup really isn't necessary.
>
> Ten to fifteen minutes of biking beforehand may be useful, too. I find
> that getting my temperature up makes it a lot easier on my joints during
> and after the workout, even if I'm working upper body the effect of that
> biking is pretty systemic. It also makes it the rest of the workout
> easier on my heart and with breathing.

I think "warming up" is highly overrated. But, to each his own.

Although I think strength athletes may actually hinder performance with
more than a very minimal warm up.

I totally disagree. When I do, for example, 5 sets of 5, I find my
second set to be the hardest and my 4th or 5th set to be my easiest. I
think Elzi posted about this same phenomena shortly before she hit the
high road.

Yup, but this may be due to nuerological reasons, and not relate to "warming
up". By warming up, I mean the various methods people go through to "get the
blood flowing", "warm up the muscles", "get the body temperature up", and
various other urban myths.

So what's your point?

Quoted message said:

What you are describing are the actual work sets. What do you do BEFORE the
5 sets to "warm up"?

Reps at lighter weights. Like I mentioned before, if Shawn Cain were
to come in cold and pull 700, he'd likely tear something. Warm up
sets are extremely important to powerlifters.

"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"David Cohen"<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

"David Cohen" <[email hidden]> wrote
>spodosaurus wrote:
>> David Cohen wrote:
>> > Bill wrote:
>> >
>> >>Is it really necessary to warm up before working out? If so, how?
>> >
>> > One light set per muscle group to be worked.
>>
>> I think one light set is pretty much a minimum. My preferences is to
>> use
>> a minimum of two progressively heavier sets as a warm up. This has the
>> added benefit of giving me a little nervous system primer so I can get
>> the form just right when I hit my workout weight for that day. This is
>> better with heavy or compound movements, though. If I'm doing laterals
>> I
>> generally have already done my compound movements so the area is
>> warmed
>> and the weight is light enough (comparatived to the heavy compound
>> movements) that a warmup really isn't necessary.
>>
>> Ten to fifteen minutes of biking beforehand may be useful, too. I find
>> that getting my temperature up makes it a lot easier on my joints
>> during
>> and after the workout, even if I'm working upper body the effect of
>> that
>> biking is pretty systemic. It also makes it the rest of the workout
>> easier on my heart and with breathing.
>
>I think "warming up" is highly overrated. But, to each his own.
>
>Although I think strength athletes may actually hinder performance with
>more than a very minimal warm up.
>
I totally disagree. When I do, for example, 5 sets of 5, I find my
second set to be the hardest and my 4th or 5th set to be my easiest. I
think Elzi posted about this same phenomena shortly before she hit the
high road.

Yup, but this may be due to nuerological reasons, and not relate to
"warming
up". By warming up, I mean the various methods people go through to "get
the
blood flowing", "warm up the muscles", "get the body temperature up", and
various other urban myths.

So what's your point?

Killing turkeys causes winter.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What you are describing are the actual work sets. What do you do BEFORE
the
5 sets to "warm up"?

Reps at lighter weights. Like I mentioned before, if Shawn Cain were
to come in cold and pull 700, he'd likely tear something. Warm up
sets are extremely important to powerlifters.

And are in line with my recommendation for "a light set for each muscle
group" to the recreational lifter who originally asked. A competitive
powerlifter, a few additional sets, ok. Still not the "warm up" routine that
is composed of mostly urban myths about to be performed by the little guy
waiting his turn on the Nautilus Butt Blaster machine.

David