WaPo Article on Exercise and Back Pain

In article <[email hidden]>,

Martha S. Gallagher said:

For the full text, go to:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/
2005/10/24/AR2005102402020.html

The Readers' Digest (tm) version is that exercising is good for your back,
except that doing back exercises seems to be bad for your back.

The one thing that seemed obvious to me that the article didn't address
(don't know whether the underlying study did) was the possibility that
people who were the most likely to do back exercises specifically were
also the ones most likely to be doing them *because* they have bad backs.
In other words, the bad backs were correlated but not caused by the
exercises.

I'm sure that some back exercises could in fact cause harm, but it just
seems weird to think that that's happening w/ a significant percentage of
the people who do them.

Thoughts?

Poor technique causes injuries. There are very few bad exercises, but
there are a lot of inappropriate exercises for a person's level of
adaptation and there is a lot of crappy technique of exercises.

So anytime I see "exercising is good[bad]..." as a statement you know
the reality is "it depends". There is neither correlation nor causation
IMO. 'Back exericise' as the variable is all wrong. The correct variable
would be 'lousy technique' where you would see both correlation and
causation.

--
Keith

"Hobbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Martha S. Gallagher said:

For the full text, go to:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/
2005/10/24/AR2005102402020.html

The Readers' Digest (tm) version is that exercising is good for your
back,
except that doing back exercises seems to be bad for your back.

The one thing that seemed obvious to me that the article didn't
address
(don't know whether the underlying study did) was the possibility
that
people who were the most likely to do back exercises specifically
were
also the ones most likely to be doing them *because* they have bad
backs.
In other words, the bad backs were correlated but not caused by the
exercises.

I'm sure that some back exercises could in fact cause harm, but it
just
seems weird to think that that's happening w/ a significant
percentage of
the people who do them.

Thoughts?

Poor technique causes injuries. There are very few bad exercises, but
there are a lot of inappropriate exercises for a person's level of
adaptation and there is a lot of crappy technique of exercises.

So anytime I see "exercising is good[bad]..." as a statement you know
the reality is "it depends". There is neither correlation nor
causation
IMO. 'Back exericise' as the variable is all wrong. The correct
variable
would be 'lousy technique' where you would see both correlation and
causation.

This is where Pavel's "the weight needs to be heavy enough" concept
enters the discussion - lots of people practice poor technique with
light enough weights to get away with poor technique for a while, but
eventually they try to increase the weight and get hurt. There is a
"heavy enough" weight that will require good technique - poor technique
and the lift simply doesn't go. As a general guideline, we're talking
about PTP's idea of 5 reps with a weight that's a 7-8 rep max or
approximately 80% 1RM.

It's my feeling the beginners should progress relatively quickly to this
level of resistance and keep the sets short, achieving hypertrophy by
simply adding more sets on short rests if hypertrophy is what's desired.
Exercises should be chosen with an eye towards simplicity of both
movement and program - fewer things to go wrong that way.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:55:08 -0400, "Steve Freides"
<[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

This is where Pavel's "the weight needs to be heavy enough" concept
enters the discussion - lots of people practice poor technique with
light enough weights to get away with poor technique for a while, but
eventually they try to increase the weight and get hurt. There is a
"heavy enough" weight that will require good technique - poor technique
and the lift simply doesn't go. As a general guideline, we're talking
about PTP's idea of 5 reps with a weight that's a 7-8 rep max or
approximately 80% 1RM.

Interesting. I see people deadlift all the time at 90 or 95% with
picture perfect form. Once they hit 99-100% their form goes to [censored],
their lower back rounds and they muscle it up for a very ugly
deadlift. How does Pavel explain that? Also, what would happen if
that person hadn't warmed up properly and jumped right to his max the
way our comrades in the Soviet special forces would do?

"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:55:08 -0400, "Steve Freides"
<[email hidden]> wrote in misc.fitness.weights:

Quoted message said:

This is where Pavel's "the weight needs to be heavy enough" concept
enters the discussion - lots of people practice poor technique with
light enough weights to get away with poor technique for a while, but
eventually they try to increase the weight and get hurt. There is a
"heavy enough" weight that will require good technique - poor
technique
and the lift simply doesn't go. As a general guideline, we're talking
about PTP's idea of 5 reps with a weight that's a 7-8 rep max or
approximately 80% 1RM.

Interesting. I see people deadlift all the time at 90 or 95% with
picture perfect form. Once they hit 99-100% their form goes to [censored],
their lower back rounds and they muscle it up for a very ugly
deadlift. How does Pavel explain that? Also, what would happen if
that person hadn't warmed up properly and jumped right to his max the
way our comrades in the Soviet special forces would do?

Warmups are explained very well in Pavel's "Power To The People!" If
you haven't read the book, I recommend it highly -
http://www.kbnj.com/ptp.htm . After you've read the book, if you'd like
to ask Pavel a question, he often responds to them on the DragonDoor
discussion site. This link will take you there:

http://forum.dragondoor.com?kbid=1022

For the record, Pavel does not recommend going cold into a max deadlift,
rather he recommends doing fewer warmups than most people do. I now do
a pair of singles at about 65% 1RM before I move to my work sets;
someone who DL's more than me would probably do more. He gives several
ramp-ups to work sets as examples in the book.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Steve Freides said:

"John Hanson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't recommend that book to anyone. He does have a few valid
points but the bulk of the book is [censored]. A person would be much
better off getting their strength information online and asking
questions on a powerlifting or weightlifting forum.

Quoted message said:

I'd like to think you're not as dense as you present yourself
here on mfw, but you're doing your best to convince me otherwise.

He convinced me otherwise with his first post. <g>

-

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