walking in Scotland

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?

Kirsty Halley

Hi Kirsty,

*PLEASE* tell your teacher to read the comments that have been made in this group about it's
inclusion in your computer course.

Cheers, Jiffy

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?

Kirsty Halley

On a hill?

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?

On a hill.

--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Jackson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote on Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:54:32 GMT....

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?

Kirsty Halley

Hi Kirsty,

*PLEASE* tell your teacher to read the comments that have been made in this group about it's
inclusion in your computer course.

The point being this:

If you and your fellow students showed signs of being interested in walking, then you'd be very
welcome here. We'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject, and it would be good to have
you join in a discussion. That's what newsgroups are all about. (And as a by-product, no doubt it
would get you excellent marks in your assessment, since it would show that you knew how to use a
newsgroup properly.)

Unless a new system has been introduced, the marking scheme is simple:

% or 100%. Pass or Fail. The lecturer decides whether that particular "learning outcome" has been
achieved. S/he keeps the documentary "evidence" in case of investigation later. The part of the
"Unit Descriptor" (the old fashioned word was 'syllabus'😉 is likely to say something like:

"Following the course the student will be able to ...

1(a) use an internet based newsgroup to post a question and receive a reply.
(b) clean a monitor correctly [or whatever]"

There is no room for "doing the work well", it's a simple can-you/can't- you and a failure in any
one item is a failure in the whole: ie 100% pass mark. There is no incentive for student to perform
"well", there is a disincentive for the lecturer to have high standards as many students would fail.

You wouldn't believe how bad this system is. Unless it's changed since I left 9 years ago.

[And I didn't invent 1(b) above. It was typical of the introductory module. I remember one wonderful
learning outcome which said that the "student will be able to withdraw an item from a media library
in 3 different ways" with a note at the bottom to say that "a media library could be simulated if
necessary, and could be as simple as a box of floppy disks". We in the computing section had a
hilarious time working out 3 ways of taking a floppy disk from a box. We never found out what the
intention was: these unit descriptors are written by unnamed people often in a great rush and
without challenge become Official. That's the problem we're up against in this NG]

Of course there are "exemplars" of the kind of thing tutors can set as questions. Which is why the
u.r.w has been bombarded over the years, clearly the exemplar uses it as an example. The rushed
compiler of the course may well have been a walker in Scotland.

Quoted message said:

But if you really were interested in walking, I'm sure you'd be able to post genuine questions or
comments, born out of your own walking experience. That's what we'd like you to do, and that's what
would get you a good reaction (and a good mark).

The fact that all you've managed so far is to parrot the questions set out in the assessment
materials suggests strongly that you're not interested, and that the whole thing is just an
extremely sterile exercise. Moreover, these questions are the same ones that we've had over and
over again for several years now, from thousands of students at colleges all over Scotland. Many
people are therefore pretty fed up of being used as the subjects of this pointless exercise.

I do appreciate that this situation isn't really the fault of you and your fellow students, since
it's unreasonable to expect that you would all be keen walkers. So perhaps we should apologise for
being a bit harsh on you. I hope you've got the message that the people we really blame are your
lecturer and (ultimately) the SQA. They've set you a really poor assessment, that actively steers
you into posting on subjects you're not interested in. Far from teaching you how to do it right,
they are forcing you to do it wrong. And unfortunately you are suffering as a result.

Belatedly, the SQA have acknowledged that they've got it wrong. See
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗ . Note that their advice to your lecturer is that "a more
open approach would be acceptable".

What this ought to mean in practice is that he/she should encourage you to find newsgroups on
subjects that you *are* really interested in. Read a week or two's posts there to get the hang of
the group. Then, if you think it's somewhere where you'll feel at home, post a message - for
example giving your own opinion on a topic that's being discussed.

And of course, if we've misjudged you - if you (or any of your fellow students) are really
interested in walking - then please do join in here at u.r.w. But please, forget the questions
suggested in the assessment. Instead, tell us what you really think. We'd like to know, honest.

An excellent reply. Some of us who have posted harsher replies can learn.

Just one thing: don't blame the lecturer too much. The requirement of this newsgroup section is
probably a very small percentage of the tasks to be got through in the time allotted. If s/he has
never used a NG before (quite likely) then s/he will stick to the materials and tutor instructions.
Maybe the second time they present the course s/he will branch out. Meanwhile we are still stuck
with the inexperienced lecturers trying to make sense out of an incomprehensible system.

Blame the system.

Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians
for musicians braeburn.co.ukbraeburn.co.ukOpen ↗ Selkirk, Scotland

I may be imagining things, but I thought Bernard Hill muttered something about...

Quoted message said:

Of course there are "exemplars" of the kind of thing tutors can set as questions. Which is why the
u.r.w has been bombarded over the years, clearly the exemplar uses it as an example. The rushed
compiler of the course may well have been a walker in Scotland.

You may have spelt the third word from the end incorrectly...
--
Martin

Quoted message said:

Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?

Kirsty Halley

Skye.

--
Paul My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003): paulrooney.netfirms.compaulrooney.netfirms.comOpen ↗ 122
Wainwrights

Please sponsor me for the London Marathon at: justgiving.comlondon2004Open ↗

In article <[email hidden]>, druidh <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

So - no reply, no pass? Surely if we then ignored them then the pass rate would fall? And then they
might get the hint?

I can't guarantee that, not having seen the descriptor and would guess the opposite.

However I think the advice is good...

Bernard Hill Selkirk, Scotland

In message <[email hidden]>, Jim Ford <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hey, it's just occured to me - surely 'Walking in Scotland' is a good candidate for a FAQ! But
perhaps we should name it 'walking in scotland' in case the capital letters confuse the students!

To start off:

1) Down to the pub.
2) To the Principle's office for a merit mark.
3) Up the 'Old Man of Hoy'.
4) Across the M8 in rush hour.

5) through the centre of Cumbernauld

--
Martin Richardson
6/284 Munros (34/34 'Furths'😉
7/89 Donalds 390/1552 Marilyns 439/439 Nuttalls

Jiffy wrote on Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:54:32 GMT....

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?

Kirsty Halley

Hi Kirsty,

*PLEASE* tell your teacher to read the comments that have been made in this group about it's
inclusion in your computer course.

The point being this:

If you and your fellow students showed signs of being interested in walking, then you'd be very
welcome here. We'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject, and it would be good to have
you join in a discussion. That's what newsgroups are all about. (And as a by-product, no doubt it
would get you excellent marks in your assessment, since it would show that you knew how to use a
newsgroup properly.)

But if you really were interested in walking, I'm sure you'd be able to post genuine questions or
comments, born out of your own walking experience. That's what we'd like you to do, and that's what
would get you a good reaction (and a good mark).

The fact that all you've managed so far is to parrot the questions set out in the assessment
materials suggests strongly that you're not interested, and that the whole thing is just an
extremely sterile exercise. Moreover, these questions are the same ones that we've had over and over
again for several years now, from thousands of students at colleges all over Scotland. Many people
are therefore pretty fed up of being used as the subjects of this pointless exercise.

I do appreciate that this situation isn't really the fault of you and your fellow students, since
it's unreasonable to expect that you would all be keen walkers. So perhaps we should apologise for
being a bit harsh on you. I hope you've got the message that the people we really blame are your
lecturer and (ultimately) the SQA. They've set you a really poor assessment, that actively steers
you into posting on subjects you're not interested in. Far from teaching you how to do it right,
they are forcing you to do it wrong. And unfortunately you are suffering as a result.

Belatedly, the SQA have acknowledged that they've got it wrong. See
makeashorterlink.commakeashorterlink.comOpen ↗ . Note that their advice to your lecturer is that "a more
open approach would be acceptable".

What this ought to mean in practice is that he/she should encourage you to find newsgroups on
subjects that you *are* really interested in. Read a week or two's posts there to get the hang of
the group. Then, if you think it's somewhere where you'll feel at home, post a message - for example
giving your own opinion on a topic that's being discussed.

And of course, if we've misjudged you - if you (or any of your fellow students) are really
interested in walking - then please do join in here at u.r.w. But please, forget the questions
suggested in the assessment. Instead, tell us what you really think. We'd like to know, honest.

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 09:55:08 +0000, Bernard Hill
<[email hidden]> materialised from cyberspace, tapped me on

the shoulder and said:

Of course there are "exemplars" of the kind of thing tutors can set as questions. Which is why the
u.r.w has been bombarded over the years, clearly the exemplar uses it as an example. The rushed
compiler of the course may well have been a walker in Scotland.

My feeling is that the compilers of the course gave, as an example, the most unlikely newsgroup they
could imagine! Possibly even thinking that there wouldn't be one! I have visions of them rolling
around laughing at the idea of people actually posting messages to a newsgroup about hillwalking.

Quoted message said:

Meanwhile we are still stuck with the inexperienced lecturers trying to make sense out of an
incomprehensible system.

Blame the system.

Having raised the subject with a supply teacher whom I knew to have been teaching this course I
still blame the teachers! This teacher had never actually used a newsgroup, didn't really know what
a newsgroup was, and couldn't believe that anybody with even half a brain would spend time
interacting with like-minded people on the internet. This teacher considered my enthusiasm for
newsgroups to be a sign of stunted mental development since only teenagers could really have any
interest in chatrooms (1st common mistake). As for the subject of the newsgroup - I couldn't
possibly be serious, now could I? A load of adults discussing hill-walks - come on, stop kidding.
Finally, if we are that sad and lonely then we should be pleased to have a few poorly spelt,
incorrectly punctuated messages from lively youngsters to brighten our day. Anyway, it doesn't
matter what us lot of saddos think - we should go out and get a life.

I blame the teachers!

--
Pam Take out the dog to reply

"Bernard Hill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Tim Jackson
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Jiffy wrote on Tue, 25 Nov 2003 12:54:32 GMT....

Quoted message said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...
> Can anyone tell me the best place to go hillwalking in Scotland?
>
> Kirsty Halley

Hi Kirsty,

*PLEASE* tell your teacher to read the comments that have been made in

this

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

group about it's inclusion in your computer course.

The point being this:

If you and your fellow students showed signs of being interested in walking, then you'd be very
welcome here. We'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject, and it would be good to have
you join in a discussion. That's what newsgroups are all about. (And as a by-product, no doubt it
would get you excellent marks in your assessment, since it would show that you knew how to use a
newsgroup properly.)

Unless a new system has been introduced, the marking scheme is simple:

% or 100%. Pass or Fail. The lecturer decides whether that particular "learning outcome" has been
achieved. S/he keeps the documentary "evidence" in case of investigation later. The part of the
"Unit Descriptor" (the old fashioned word was 'syllabus'😉 is likely to say something like:

"Following the course the student will be able to ...

1(a) use an internet based newsgroup to post a question and receive a reply.

So - no reply, no pass? Surely if we then ignored them then the pass rate would fall? And then they
might get the hint?

druidh

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

The rushed compiler of the

Quoted message said:

course may well have been a walker in Scotland.

You may have spelt the third word from the end incorrectly...

LOL! /me remembers where she is and walks off hurriedly, whistling.
--
Fran If you need my email address please ask.

Hey, it's just occured to me - surely 'Walking in Scotland' is a good candidate for a FAQ! But
perhaps we should name it 'walking in scotland' in case the capital letters confuse the students!

To start off:

1) Down to the pub.
2) To the Principle's office for a merit mark.
3) Up the 'Old Man of Hoy'.
4) Across the M8 in rush hour. and so on.

Perhaps there also should be a warning against attempting to walk and chew gum at the same time!

Regards: Jim Ford

Pam Scruton wrote on Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:15:59 GMT....

Quoted message said:

This teacher considered my enthusiasm for newsgroups to be a sign of stunted mental development
since only teenagers could really have any interest in chatrooms (1st common mistake).

Good point.

Kirsty, if you're still listening, try this experiment. Ask your teacher the simple question "what's
the difference between a newsgroup and a chatroom?" What answer does he/she give you?

If he/she just waffles a bit but doesn't give you a clear, easily understood answer, then you know
that you have a poor teacher who doesn't understand the subject any better than the one Pam has
described. In that case, I would approach the Principal of your college and complain about the
standard of tuition you are receiving. You are entitled to expect better.

--
Tim Jackson [email hidden] (Change '.invalid' to '.co.uk' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit patent.freeserve.co.ukpatent.freeserve.co.ukOpen ↗

In message <[email hidden]>, shivers
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Hey, it's just occured to me - surely 'Walking in Scotland' is a good candidate for a FAQ! But
perhaps we should name it 'walking in scotland' in case the capital letters confuse the
students!

To start off:

1) Down to the pub.
2) To the Principle's office for a merit mark.
3) Up the 'Old Man of Hoy'.
4) Across the M8 in rush hour.

5) through the centre of Cumbernauld

what is the west highland way?

A variation on the rhythm method.

--
Martin Richardson
216/284 Munros (34/34 'Furths'😉
217/89 Donalds 390/1552 Marilyns 439/439 Nuttalls

Martin Richardson <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, Jim Ford <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hey, it's just occured to me - surely 'Walking in Scotland' is a good candidate for a FAQ! But
perhaps we should name it 'walking in scotland' in case the capital letters confuse the students!

To start off:

1) Down to the pub.
2) To the Principle's office for a merit mark.
3) Up the 'Old Man of Hoy'.
4) Across the M8 in rush hour.

5) through the centre of Cumbernauld

what is the west highland way?

shivers said:

what is the west highland way?

It's a way which crosses land which is high. Oh, and it's in the west somewhere.

Paul
--
The October Project 2003 - Updated
wildwales.fsnet.co.ukoctober.htmlOpen ↗
wilderness-wales.co.ukwilderness-wales.co.ukOpen ↗
photosig.comuserphotosOpen ↗

Martin Richardson <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, shivers
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>Hey, it's just occured to me - surely 'Walking in Scotland' is a good candidate for a FAQ! But
>perhaps we should name it 'walking in scotland' in case the capital letters confuse the
>students!
>
>To start off:
>
>1) Down to the pub.
>2) To the Principle's office for a merit mark.
>3) Up the 'Old Man of Hoy'.
>4) Across the M8 in rush hour.
5) through the centre of Cumbernauld

what is the west highland way?

A variation on the rhythm method.

Using a sporran to good effect.

--
Adrian

Adrian Tupper said:

Martin Richardson <[email hidden]> wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>, shivers
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

>>Hey, it's just occured to me - surely 'Walking in Scotland' is a good candidate for a FAQ! But
>>perhaps we should name it 'walking in scotland' in case the capital letters confuse the
>>students!
>>
>>To start off:
>>
>>1) Down to the pub.
>>2) To the Principle's office for a merit mark.
>>3) Up the 'Old Man of Hoy'.
>>4) Across the M8 in rush hour.
>>
>5) through the centre of Cumbernauld
>
what is the west highland way?

A variation on the rhythm method.

Using a sporran to good effect.

You can have a fling doing it that way

Katherine