Walking Alone.....

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the wonderful person
Peter Clinch <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

No, because they didn't have the choice. Going out without one today
is an avoidable mistake.

Or, going out today without one is a simple case of not bothering to
carry soemthing you're very unlikely to need. To say it's a mistake,
period, not to carry one is, IMHO, pretty preposterous. What people
carry or don't is up to them.

It depends on the risk .. if having one reduces by 1% the chance of
getting you (or someone else) avoidably killed, then I think it's stupid
not to take one. If it merely reduces by 50% the chance of the wife
yelling at you, then fine, leave it behind.

Yes, what people carry is up to them, but I reserve the right to say
it's pretty stupid to be in some places at some times without certain
items. And, where they can get a signal, and there is risk to life &
limb, I now put mobile phones into the 'should have' category. Even for
groups, never mind solo walkers. Sure you can do without one .. people
did for years. Some died as a result.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
SC recommends the use of Firefox; Get smart, or get assimilated.

<[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Most published safety literature on hiking frowns upon walking alone,
however the majority of my walks are undertaken uncompanied.

Is this stupidity?

How many others walk alone?

To put a slightly different slant on the subject, I often walk (and do
unfrequented gully scrambles) alone without the thought entering my head
that anything bad might happen, don't carry a mobile phone, don't tell
anyone where I'm going, often don't take a map or compass, etc. But the
other day, taking a new friend and her 9yr old son on a trip up some
relatively modest hills, being responsible for them to some extent gave me a
rather different outlook and I took far more precautions than I usually
would as a result. (Well, took a map, 2 spare hats and a couple of
chocolate bars anyway). Weather wasn't bad as it happens and no-one fell
off any cliffs but I really don't much like being with anyone that I feel
responsible for (including my girlfriend) when things get really nasty
weatherwise or routes become trickier than expected. Walking alone is far
less of a worry.

Nick Pedley said:

It's been said that 'Hell is other people',
I don't know the context of that original statement

L'enfer, c'est les autres. "Huis Clos", J P Sartre. (I read it for
A-level French)

Three people are trapped in a room together - they think they are
waiting to go to hell. It turns out that this *is* hell.

[How come it all makes sense now? 17 years too late!]

Judith

Quoted message said:

It's stupid to walk alone if you're stupid, and research has shown
that many stupid people are too stupid to realise that they're stupid.

--
Chris Malcolm [email hidden] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

Pardon my Shakespear: "it takes a fool to know himself to be a wise man,
but a wiseman knows himself to be a fool"

Jhimmy

Quoted message said:

Furthermore, in my very short walking career I've already turned back
twice; once on the way up to Skiddaw when the clouds came in; the other
on Bowfell. Both times I felt if had kept going I was going beyond my
own abilities....

There's no such thing as turning back! You make an initial walk and you
return early. If you failed to reach a point then so what, the mountain
will be there a lot long then any human.

I like to explore the mountains (many time off paths) and this sometimes
take more time then expected. The number of times I failed to reach an
objective is more then my mear memory can hold. ;-)

Why do people really have to reach the highest point, anyway?

Jhimmy

In article <[email hidden]>, Simon Challands
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>

GSV Three Minds in a Can said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from
the wonderful person "[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How many others walk alone?

Me. And I meet several solo walkers most days (but more duos). You
ideally need a first aid kit, mobile phone, and someone who'll miss you
eventually. Maps, compass, GPS, proper clothing, etc.

Mobile phone? Yuck. There were plenty of solo walkers before mobile phones,
and they weren't all fools.

More fool you if you don't - Yuck indeed !

Consider a mobile phone as a First Aid accessory and you advocate taking
a first Aid kit !
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

To say it's a mistake, period, not to carry one is, IMHO, pretty
preposterous. What people carry or don't is up to them.

I would have expected something wiser from one so well respected on this
NG. Come on Peter let common sense prevail.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

W. D. Grey said:

We walked alone didn't we? Strange thing was, we were only a yard or two
apart for the whole walk :-) Thanks for speaking to me now and again :-)

I kept thinking "Who *is* that strange man?"

;-)

Judith

:-) :-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 14:35:09 +0100, "W. D. Grey"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

| In article <[email hidden]>, Dave Fawthrop
| <[email hidden]> writes
| >How many times would you not have made it back without the help of a
| >*companion*? You are allowed help from passers by and anyone you can
| >summon up via a whistle or mobile phone etc.
| >
| >In my case never, and I have not even come close to such an emergency.
|
| The over-confident, or merely confident can fall foul of the simplest of
| accidents. A twisted or even broken ankle can be an emergency, and one
| which can happen so very easily.

Yes! but the question was very tightly worded.
| >How many times would you not have made it back without the help of a
| >*companion*? You are allowed help from passers by and anyone you can
| >summon up via a whistle or mobile phone etc.

No argument just my observation.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Judith
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Nick Pedley said:

It's been said that 'Hell is other people',
I don't know the context of that original statement

L'enfer, c'est les autres. "Huis Clos", J P Sartre. (I read it for
A-level French)

Three people are trapped in a room together - they think they are
waiting to go to hell. It turns out that this *is* hell.

[How come it all makes sense now? 17 years too late!]

Judith

Wow "A" levels when you were 9,,,I'm impressed :-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Stuart
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

NO...If I remember correctly the statstistics showed that you were something
like 50x more likely to require assistance from a MRT if you were in a group
of more than 2 than if you were by yourself!

Could that be because there was someone available to go for help?
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

"Jhimmy" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

There's no such thing as turning back! You make an initial walk and you
return early. If you failed to reach a point then so what, the mountain
will be there a lot long then any human.

I like to explore the mountains (many time off paths) and this sometimes
take more time then expected. The number of times I failed to reach an
objective is more then my mear memory can hold. ;-)

Why do people really have to reach the highest point, anyway?

On holiday, some years ago, in the Black Cuillin of Skye I had some tiring
days and decided to do two *easy* days. My goal was to discover some
Coire's. I was on my own and had a perfect time avoiding the *crowds*. Even
did some drystone building on the big howff in Coire Lagan :-)

--
Theo
www.theosphotos.fotopic.net

W. D. Grey said:

Quoted message said:

[How come it all makes sense now? 17 years too late!]

Judith

Wow "A" levels when you were 9,,,I'm impressed :-)

You smooth-talking so & so!

Judith
(Nursing aching legs from going on an off-topic trip - a 40 mile bike
ride.)

"W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Mobile phone? Yuck. There were plenty of solo walkers before mobile
phones and they weren't all fools.

Quoted message said:

More fool you if you don't - Yuck indeed !

Everyone will have their own ideas about what constitutes a walk serious
enough to take any kind of safety item on depending on a number of things
such as their experience, route familiarity, weather conditions, number of
other people about and general level of optimism or pessimism. Presumably
few people would see the need to take a mobile phone as a safety item on a
walk around their local park but how much of a step up is it from that to a
walk up the Gap Road to Pen-y-Fan and from that to a walk up Snowdon via the
PYG track. Not much really.

W. D. Grey said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

To say it's a mistake, period, not to carry one is, IMHO, pretty
preposterous. What people carry or don't is up to them.

I would have expected something wiser from one so well respected on this
NG. Come on Peter let common sense prevail.

I'm with Clinchy on this one. To say that not carring a mobile is a
mistake is absolute [censored]. Mobile, GPS, Sat Phone etc. I carried
none of these when I started going to wild places on my own and I
don't rely on them even now. I am cautious and know my limits. Before
going off into the wilds in winter I took the precaution of getting
some knowledge of how to use my newly purchased crampons and ice axe.
At the same time I became a lot more skilled at using the Mk I eyeball
in conjunction with a map and compass. As a solo walker I know that it
is down to /me/ to get back safe, not some RAF bod in a yellow
whirlybird.

The only occasion I have had a near miss was when walking in a group.
In a happy go lucky moment I stepped onto a boulder and a stone wedged
in the tread of my boot heel meant I slipped off it and bashed my head
a glancing blow. If I wasn't in a group I wouldn't have been having
the conversation and would have taken more care over where I was
placing my feet.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

Fiona Leppard <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Personally, I rely on first aid training, years of hill walking experience,
maps, compass and knowledge of how to use them, appropriate clothing and day
sack containing slice of home-baked cherry almond cake and a fluid of choice
for the day.

I'd lose the cherry cake and take the phone.
I can't see the point of owning a mobile phone if you don't have it with
you.
Mine is switched off unless I am expecting a call or a txt.

My daughter's mobile phone is usually the only way I can be sure of
contacting her, and hers is almost always on. It's a comfort blanket
for me, not that I ever chew on it.....
--
Gordon Harris

Judith said:

L'enfer, c'est les autres. "Huis Clos", J P Sartre. (I read it for
A-level French)

Three people are trapped in a room together - they think they are
waiting to go to hell. It turns out that this *is* hell.

[How come it all makes sense now? 17 years too late!]

Rimmer - "You know, John Paul Satre said that hell is spending eternity
with your friends."
Lister - "Yeah, well all his mates were french."

:-)

--
***My real address is m/ike at u/nmusic d/ot co dot u/k (removing /s)
np:
http://www.unmusic.co.uk
http://www.unmusic.co.uk/amh-s-faq.html - alt.music.home-studio FAQ
http://www.unmusic.co.uk/wrap.php?file=vhs.html - vhs purchase log.

W. D. Grey <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The over-confident, or merely confident can fall foul of the simplest
of accidents. A twisted or even broken ankle can be an emergency, and
one which can happen so very easily.

I know very well if this is going to be a concern for someone
contemplating a walk, then the best thing is to stay at home or join a
group and lose out on the best bit - of being alone in the hills.

Last time I did a walk of any significance was the only time I really
hurt myself, though not seriously. I slipped on some stones in the
stream at the foot of William Clough, and gashed my shin, but continued
on the circuit of Kinder. On the steep bit of the Clough, I stopped
for breath and to talk to another lone walker, mentioned the slip, and
rolled my sock down, to find quite a nasty gash.
The other guy said: "That's nothing, I fell and broke my leg on this
route a few years ago, late afternoon, and I was mighty lucky that a
group of late starters came along and found me"....

It can happen to anyone, any time, but the main reason I don't do a full
day walk on my own is because I find that almost any activity is more
pleasurable with one, or three, agreeable ompanions. More than that
is a crowd.........

I am fortunate that I have a lady friend who loves soccer, because
there's nothing sadder than watching an exciting match on your own.
;-)
--
Gordon Harris

"[email hidden]" <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Thanks to all for the responses, it confirms my own thoughts!

Furthermore, in my very short walking career I've already turned back
twice; once on the way up to Skiddaw when the clouds came in; the other
on Bowfell. Both times I felt if had kept going I was going beyond my
own abilities....

That set me thinking. There are definitely occasions when I might
have backed off from a walk if I hadn't had an equally competent
companion.

I remember us meeting another two-some in a white-out, and merely
joining forces, looking at map and compass together, gave us the
confidence to continue rather than back-track our rapidly disappearing
footprints.
--
Gordon Harris

Stuart <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Simon Challands" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In message <[email hidden]>

Stuart said:

A few years ago a report into Scottish Mountain safety was produced for

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Scottish Executive, I no longer have that report or the exact figures,
however it showed that, solitary walkers virtually never get into

difficulty

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

or need to be rescued, pairs were alittle more common, however groups of
three or more made up the bulk of all hill call outs! So statistically
speaking it is far far safer to go by yourself,
I would guess that the reasoning for this is that solitary walkers are
generally more experienced and being by yourself probably means you take
more care!

Or that one member of a group getting in trouble is just as likely as a
solitary walker, so with several people together the chances of something
happening to that group are greater.

NO...If I remember correctly the statstistics showed that you were something
like 50x more likely to require assistance from a MRT if you were in a group
of more than 2 than if you were by yourself!

This seems to be faulty logic, IMHO!

A group of four has four people who may fall or become ill and
immobilised, but they must have a better chance of getting help, so the
risk is less.

What are the statistics for missing walkers being found dead?
Almost all the ones I remember hearing of were alone, or were separated
from a party.
--
Gordon Harris