Wales MRT have had a busy night....

Chris Street said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

It doesn't say when this happened.

I saw the helicopter heading west on Sunday when I was near the
Ystradfellte Reservoir.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Bill Grey's one of the support members for the Brecon MRT. I'll bet
he's tired today. I've got to ask though - who on /earth/ plans these
expeditions? That sort of area, at this time of year?? Poor kids.
--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Fran <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Bill Grey's one of the support members for the Brecon MRT. I'll bet
he's tired today. I've got to ask though - who on /earth/ plans these
expeditions? That sort of area, at this time of year?? Poor kids.

Nothing wrong with this time of year - Tuesday was great (a bit windy,
but great) and it's supposed to hit 20c Thursday. Sunday/Monday was
dire, admittedly - just like the forecasters promised.

Folks just have to keep up with the weather forecasts and be
ready/willing/able to bug out. It's the 'no turning back' and 'we've
booked it so we'll damn well do it' brigades that need their heads
examined.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
Contact recommends the use of Firefox; SC recommends it at gunpoint.

In article <[email hidden]>, Bertie Wiggins
<cycling_remove_bertie@yahoo_dot_co_dot_uk.?.invalid> writes

Quoted message said:

Chris Street said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

It doesn't say when this happened.

We got a call at about 20.00 hrs and then stood down at about 21.30

This was Wednesday 25.10.05
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Bill Grey's one of the support members for the Brecon MRT. I'll bet
he's tired today. I've got to ask though - who on /earth/ plans these
expeditions?

The candidates are involved in the planning of the expeditions. They are
overseen by leader(s) who should be competent in the hills.

The planning should also cover poor weather alternatives.

From the scant details we don't know what went wrong with the planning,
supervision or execution of the plan(s).

Quoted message said:

That sort of area, at this time of year??

What times of the year would you allow it?

I would not agree with suggestions that the Black Mountains at this time
of the year would be particularly inappropriate. After all the DofE
scheme is intended to be challenging.

Sure there were most probably mistakes made here (we all make them) but
you do sound a bit more of an advocate of the nanny state than I have
previously noticed in you.

--

Dominic Sexton

In article <[email hidden]>, Dominic Sexton
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

What times of the year would you allow it?

I would not agree with suggestions that the Black Mountains at this
time of the year would be particularly inappropriate. After all the
DofE scheme is intended to be challenging.

Agreed that the "time of the year" should be OK, but unfortunately
/this/ time of the year has been particularly bad. Hay Bluff and Twmpa
area are really bleak. perhaps it would have been wiser to reconsider
the plans in view of the recent very bad weather.

Having said the above, I've yet to find out what the real problem was,
and indeed where the group was actually situated.
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Bitstring <[email hidden]>, from the
wonderful person Fran <[email hidden]> said

Quoted message said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Bill Grey's one of the support members for the Brecon MRT. I'll bet
he's tired today. I've got to ask though - who on /earth/ plans these
expeditions? That sort of area, at this time of year?? Poor kids.

Nothing wrong with this time of year - Tuesday was great (a bit windy,
but great) and it's supposed to hit 20c Thursday. Sunday/Monday was
dire, admittedly - just like the forecasters promised.

Yes, but these youngsters may have had very little experience of
camping, let alone camping in what can be very rough weather in October.
It may also have been their first time away from home without their
parents. Look at their ages, given as 15-16: they were probably doing
their bronze award (i.e. the first one). What an introduction for them.
I do hope it doesn't put too many of them off for life.

--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

It doesn't say when this happened.

We got a call at about 20.00 hrs and then stood down at about 21.30

This was Wednesday 25.10.05

Or possibly even Tuesday... :-)
--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Sure there were most probably mistakes made here (we all make them) but
you do sound a bit more of an advocate of the nanny state than I have
previously noticed in you.

I'm not an advocate of the Nanny state at all - I hate it. Thing is
though, these kids weren't doing their gold award; their ages are given
as 15-16. They probably had very little experience of anything, let
alone camping out in these conditions. Someone should have intervened
and pointed out to them that October half term is notorious for extremes
of weather. It's beautiful here today; Monday was foul. Tomorrow could
bring just about anything, forecast or no.
--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

Quoted message said:

I'm not an advocate of the Nanny state at all - I hate it. Thing is
though, these kids weren't doing their gold award; their ages are given
as 15-16. They probably had very little experience of anything, let
alone camping out in these conditions. Someone should have intervened
and pointed out to them that October half term is notorious for extremes
of weather. It's beautiful here today; Monday was foul. Tomorrow could
bring just about anything, forecast or no.

They were probably on their Silver award expedition. For me, the silver
was significantly harder than the bronze, tho much easier than the gold. It
was done in the same area as the gold expeditions, the difference being the
length in miles & time; and more of the Around, less of the Over.

All routes had bad weather alternatives for the high bits, and several
training expeditions, including a couple of night hikes, were held before
we went (training expeditions just lasted the weekend, with one overnight
camp). We were trained and tested in navigation and compass use, as well
as basic first aid etc. Everyone was briefed on the dangers of hypothermia
and what to do if someone was going down with it.

24 hour emergency ration packs were taken in addition to all the food for
the expedition, plus survival bags, all cooking equipment, tents, sleeping
bags etc.

Whether the school did all of this I'm not sure, but my group was perfectly
well trained & equipped to spend a couple of nights lost on the side of a
mountain, and I would expect the same of these youths.

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Sure there were most probably mistakes made here (we all make them) but
you do sound a bit more of an advocate of the nanny state than I have
previously noticed in you.

I'm not an advocate of the Nanny state at all - I hate it. Thing is
though, these kids weren't doing their gold award; their ages are given
as 15-16. They probably had very little experience of anything, let
alone camping out in these conditions. Someone should have intervened
and pointed out to them that October half term is notorious for extremes
of weather. It's beautiful here today; Monday was foul. Tomorrow could
bring just about anything, forecast or no.

I know no more about this than anyone else, but I have to disagree with
you here. *IF*, and it is a big *IF*, they were actually sticking to the
DofE rules, then I would expect 16 year olds to be doing their silver at
the very least, and will have already done at least 3 other weekends
away as practises. As the Brecon Beacons is classed as Wild Country,
then they are also required to have done extra training relevant to the
terrain, and so will have been trained to Gold DofE level. I am assuming
they were on assessment, because October is the end of the season, and
they are supposed to do practises and assessment in the same year. There
should have also been an assessor team and a support team checking them
every couple of hours.

Of course, this all goes out of the window if they were not sticking to
the rules; something which I find suspect about this is that 9 teenagers
were rescued. The maximum group size for walking parties is 7, so this
should have been 2 groups. It is possible that they were not actually
walking at all, but were actually rescued from their campsite, when 2
groups could legitimately be together. In this case, all you need is for
a couple of tents to collapse in the weather for the MRT to be required.

As I said, I am speculating wildly here, but until we know more facts, I
don't think any of us should be critisising. Once we *do* know what went
on, then I may well be at the front of the queue!

Geoff

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Bill Grey's one of the support members for the Brecon MRT. I'll bet
he's tired today. I've got to ask though - who on /earth/ plans these
expeditions? That sort of area, at this time of year?? Poor kids.

I had to treat a lass suffering from hypothermia up near Skiddaw once, see
http://www.keswickmrt.org.uk/rescues/2000.html 28th Oct Glendaterra valley
and then radio in for help from the Skiddaw YHA. What appalled me was that
I'd passed their supervisor who had made a check less than 10 minutes
before and he'd been happy to leave them there with no fire or stove (and
what they had was totally soaked and unlightable - I gave them my hexamine
stove in the end) camped three feet from a beck rising alarmingly in an
obvious flood gully in torrential rain, with a young lass showing obvious
signs of hypothermia, no leadership in the group, etc. I'm sure there are
some very good DoE supervisiors (I know several) but some are right
clueless fools sadly. I guess however that's the same in all walks of life.

On Wed, 26 Oct 2005 18:10:59 +0100, Geoff Briggs wrote...

Quoted message said:

Of course, this all goes out of the window if they were not sticking to
the rules; something which I find suspect about this is that 9 teenagers
were rescued. The maximum group size for walking parties is 7, so this
should have been 2 groups. It is possible that they were not actually
walking at all, but were actually rescued from their campsite, when 2
groups could legitimately be together. In this case, all you need is for
a couple of tents to collapse in the weather for the MRT to be required.

BBC Points West had an interview with their headmaster this evening. He
said it was 2 groups that had joined together. He was keen to stress
that they were well prepared, and commended them for the way they coped
with the situation they found themselves in.

--
Tim Jackson
[email hidden]
(Change '.invalid' to '.com' to reply direct)
Absurd patents: visit http://www.patent.freeserve.co.uk

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Which says bugger all TBH. I'll be interested to read the MRT account. At
least the kids were clued up enough to get help.

Graham

In article <[email hidden]>, Fran
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This was Wednesday 25.10.05

Or possibly even Tuesday... :-)

Sorry - quite so. Give us oldies a break eh :-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

In article <[email hidden]>, Graham Seed
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Which says bugger all TBH. I'll be interested to read the MRT account. At
least the kids were clued up enough to get help.

Graham

I don't have the full details but it appears that the group of nine
youngsters knew exactly where they were as one had a GPS and was able to
give accurate fix to the police. The two MRT teams were well on their
way to reach them but were beaten to the punch by the Sea King which
whisked the kids to safety. It was at this point we were stood down -
and I never even got to the RV point :-(

--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

"W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Graham Seed
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

"Chris Street" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Nine teenagers, some reportedly suffering from hypothermia, have been
rescued by an RAF helicopter from the Black Mountains in mid Wales.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/mid/4377018.stm

Which says bugger all TBH. I'll be interested to read the MRT account. At
least the kids were clued up enough to get help.

Graham

I don't have the full details but it appears that the group of nine
youngsters knew exactly where they were as one had a GPS and was able to
give accurate fix to the police. The two MRT teams were well on their way
to reach them but were beaten to the punch by the Sea King which whisked
the kids to safety. It was at this point we were stood down - and I never
even got to the RV point :-(

Never mind Bill, at least you got out on the hill! ;-)

Graham

In article <[email hidden]>, Graham Seed
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Never mind Bill, at least you got out on the hill! ;-)

If only :-)

Approx 54 miles to the RV point and we were stood down when I'd done
50.2 miles :-(

Then another 50.2 miles hiome :-)
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

"W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>, Graham Seed
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Never mind Bill, at least you got out on the hill! ;-)

If only :-)

Approx 54 miles to the RV point and we were stood down when I'd done 50.2
miles :-(

Then another 50.2 miles hiome :-)
--

Oh no! Sorry, I thought a couple of rescue groups might be RVing on the
hill. 100 miles........I hope the school involved have to squirm a bit if it
turns out the preparation/leadership was inadequate!

Graham