Vuelta after TT today?

"alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4142d0b0$0$28460$9b4e6d93
@newsread4.arcor-online.net:

Quoted message said:

Tyler has to show today if he still has it after his Olympic TT. If he wins
the TT today he will be the absolute favourite to win this race.

He'd have to stay on his bike first, which is unlikely.

alex said:

O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?

I think today's TT will mean almost nothing for the final Vuelta's result.
With so many steep climbs Kms in the next 2 weeks, the final gaps will be
in the quarters of hours' order. So the 2-3 minutes that can separate the
top contenders nowadays will be of no aid when the big crisis are going to
cloak the riders in the mountains.

alex said:

O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?

It seems that Aitor Gonzalez IS the favourite for the TT (is the last
year of his contract with Fassa and he has to do something to impress
some DS, he seems to have the "legs" this time). Is speedy going to win
the Vuelta again? Or is he going to be another big dissapointment?

Disappointment.

Quoted message said:

Has Beloki finally made it out of his post-TdF 2003 crisis? If he can
be one of the top 10 today, he could be considered recovered to be a
podium favourite in next year TdF.

Finished 52nd.

Quoted message said:

Trying not to lose more than 2 mins (in order of probability): Garzelli,
Menchov, Valverde and Heras.

Garzelli, +4.20
Menchov, +2.20
Valverde, +1.32
Heras, +1.37

Quoted message said:

Incognito: Cunego. Does he really give a damn about his vuelta?
(probably not), we'll see today.

Evidently not.

quote='Robert Chung'alex said:

O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?

It seems that Aitor Gonzalez IS the favourite for the TT (is the last
year of his contract with Fassa and he has to do something to impress
some DS, he seems to have the "legs" this time). Is speedy going to win
the Vuelta again? Or is he going to be another big dissapointment?

Disappointment.

Quoted message said:

Has Beloki finally made it out of his post-TdF 2003 crisis? If he can
be one of the top 10 today, he could be considered recovered to be a
podium favourite in next year TdF.

Finished 52nd.

Quoted message said:

Trying not to lose more than 2 mins (in order of probability): Garzelli,
Menchov, Valverde and Heras.

Garzelli, +4.20
Menchov, +2.20
Valverde, +1.32
Heras, +1.37

Quoted message said:

Incognito: Cunego. Does he really give a damn about his vuelta?
(probably not), we'll see today.

Evidently not.[/QUOTE]
maybe yu missed Cunego in the Giro, but he is a terrible Time trialer. 2.43 down is trying for him. He could still easily make that up if he is on form. Of course the feild is much stronger for the vuelta than giro.

Umm... No.
Have you ever watched the Vuelta? These climbs never give very big time
gaps. Almost all of the climbs are gradual and lack steepness.
2-3 minutes typically wins the Vuelta.

"Davide Tosi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

alex said:

O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?

I think today's TT will mean almost nothing for the final Vuelta's result.
With so many steep climbs Kms in the next 2 weeks, the final gaps will be
in the quarters of hours' order. So the 2-3 minutes that can separate the
top contenders nowadays will be of no aid when the big crisis are going to
cloak the riders in the mountains.

Brenton James said:

Umm... No.
Have you ever watched the Vuelta?

Every year since I don't ever remember when. But maybe not too many,
indeed. Probably late '80s early '90s.

Quoted message said:

These climbs never give very big time
gaps. Almost all of the climbs are gradual and lack steepness.
2-3 minutes typically wins the Vuelta.

Not really true about the past (someone already pointed out about the
Angliru). But this is by far the most difficult Vuelta course of the last
25 years (maybe ever, but I am not really that informed about historic
Vueltas) with so many climbs, so many steep sections and such series of
climbs within a single stage that I am pretty sure we will see the kind of
time gaps that were typical of early '80s TdF.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert Chung said:

alex said:

O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?

It seems that Aitor Gonzalez IS the favourite for the TT (is the last
year of his contract with Fassa and he has to do something to impress
some DS, he seems to have the "legs" this time). Is speedy going to win
the Vuelta again? Or is he going to be another big dissapointment?

Disappointment.

It'll be back to trying to win a stage for him this year.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Trying not to lose more than 2 mins (in order of probability): Garzelli,
Menchov, Valverde and Heras.

Garzelli, +4.20
Menchov, +2.20
Valverde, +1.32
Heras, +1.37

We're still going to be hearing that Roberto Heras can't time trial to
save his life, but for him to only lose 1:37 on this stage shows (imo) that
he isn't so bad at all. I doubt (ok, its pretty safe to say that I *know*
this) he'll ever win a big one against guys like Hamilton, but he is
starting to get to the point where he limits his losses to a manageable
level.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Albert Einstein

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Sonarrat said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

> Trying not to lose more than 2 mins (in order of probability):
> Garzelli, Menchov, Valverde and Heras.

Garzelli, +4.20
Menchov, +2.20
Valverde, +1.32
Heras, +1.37

We're still going to be hearing that Roberto Heras can't time trial
to save his life, but for him to only lose 1:37 on this stage shows
(imo) that he isn't so bad at all. I doubt (ok, its pretty safe to say
that I *know* this) he'll ever win a big one against guys like
Hamilton, but he is starting to get to the point where he limits his
losses to a manageable level.

I would almost have bought this post, if Aitor Gonzalez and Roberto
Heras hadn't finished in basically the same time, not a whole lot
slower than Alejandro Valverde, and quicker than Cadel Evans, Jorg
Jaksche, Laszlo Bodrogi, Oscar Sevilla, and, well, 164 other riders...

There are many more time trials to come. The Vuelta did not end today.

-Sonarrat.

I agree with you and Howard. I listed the times for Valverde and Heras
because Alex had posted about them, not because I thought they were bad
times. Heras lost one minute compared to his teammate Nozal, and that
ain't bad at all.

In article <[email hidden]>, Sonarrat <>

Quoted message said:

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert Chung said:

alex wrote:
> O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?
>
> It seems that Aitor Gonzalez IS the favourite for the TT (is the last
> year of his contract with Fassa and he has to do something to impress
> some DS, he seems to have the "legs" this time). Is speedy going to win
> the Vuelta again? Or is he going to be another big dissapointment?

Disappointment.

It'll be back to trying to win a stage for him this year.

Quoted message said:

> Trying not to lose more than 2 mins (in order of probability): Garzelli,
> Menchov, Valverde and Heras.

Garzelli, +4.20
Menchov, +2.20
Valverde, +1.32
Heras, +1.37

We're still going to be hearing that Roberto Heras can't time trial to
save his life, but for him to only lose 1:37 on this stage shows (imo) that
he isn't so bad at all. I doubt (ok, its pretty safe to say that I *know*
this) he'll ever win a big one against guys like Hamilton, but he is
starting to get to the point where he limits his losses to a manageable
level.

I would almost have bought this post, if Aitor Gonzalez and Roberto
Heras hadn't finished in basically the same time, not a whole lot
slower than Alejandro Valverde, and quicker than Cadel Evans, Jorg
Jaksche, Laszlo Bodrogi, Oscar Sevilla, and, well, 164 other riders...

There are many more time trials to come. The Vuelta did not end today.

-Sonarrat.

I certainly don't think the race is over at all. I think it's pretty
open at this point, though with Hamilton that close to the front of GC, it
probably makes it a harder race for several of the guys I'd consider
contenders to win. My reasoning on Aitor Gonzalez not being a likely choice
for the overall is that when he won the VaE in '02, he pummeled Heras by
3:22 and was 1:23 over second place on the final day's ITT. The fact that
today he was dead even with Heras in 14th place is a big change from '02.
He's gone backwards, while Heras has definitely stepped up a bunch in TTs
(which impresses and pleases me greatly). By the way, when I said, "he'll
ever win a big one against guys like Hamilton", I only meant TTs.

Valverde is very impressive again.

--
tanx,
Howard

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind."
Albert Einstein

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Brenton James said:

Umm... No.
Have you ever watched the Vuelta? These climbs never give very big time
gaps. Almost all of the climbs are gradual and lack steepness.

As already said, the parcours of this edition are particulary difficult, and
quite different from last year, with a good mix of short and steep mountain
finishes and longer but more gradual climbs.
http://www.altimetrias.com/aspbk/verPuerto.asp?id=258
http://www.rutasdeciclismo.com/index.php?page=puertos&id=58
http://www.altimetrias.com/aspbk/verPuerto.asp?id=388
http://www.salite.ch/covatilla.htm

Not the Dolomites or TdF Pyrinees, but they'll create big gaps

Jenko

BTW, what the heck has happened to Igor Gonzales de Galdeano? He was never in
the same class with Hamilton, but until about 18 months ago he was solidly in a
second tier of riders capable of top-5 showings in big TTs and top-10s in final
GC. He'd finish with the second group behind the leaders on the climbs.

Now, nothing. Has he been relegated to Saiz's doghouse after after last year's
Vuelta and commanded to ride only as a second-rate domestique from here on out?
Could he be doing better with another team, or has he peaked and is now in
decline? He was Vuelta runner-up not that long ago.

Brenton James said:

Have you ever watched the Vuelta? These climbs never give very big time
gaps.

Never? These look like pretty big time gaps:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta049

Those are nothing, after hearing that the TT gaps ment nothing, and that the
mountain gaps would be much bigger.

10 riders within a minute of the winner on a HC finish? Those are small time
gaps. Compare that to say... stage 18 of the 2003 Giro.

"Robert Chung" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Brenton James said:

Have you ever watched the Vuelta? These climbs never give very big time
gaps.

Never? These look like pretty big time gaps:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004/vuelta04/?id=results/vuelta049

Brenton James said:

Those are nothing, after hearing that the TT gaps ment nothing, and
that the mountain gaps would be much bigger.

10 riders within a minute of the winner on a HC finish? Those are small
time gaps. Compare that to say... stage 18 of the 2003 Giro.

Paraphrasing something you yourself said elsewhere in this thread,
Chianale was a rare exception.

"alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4142d0b0$0$28460$9b4e6d93
@newsread4.arcor-online.net:

Quoted message said:

Tyler has to show today if he still has it after his Olympic TT. If he wins
the TT today he will be the absolute favourite to win this race.

Results from todays stage:

58 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) Phonak Hearing Systems 10.52
59 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems

He's doing that "absolute favorite" tag of yours justice, no?

Howard Kveck said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Robert Chung said:

alex said:

O.K. So who is going to be left out today? Who are the pretenders?

It seems that Aitor Gonzalez IS the favourite for the TT (is the last
year of his contract with Fassa and he has to do something to impress
some DS, he seems to have the "legs" this time). Is speedy going to win
the Vuelta again? Or is he going to be another big dissapointment?

Disappointment.

It'll be back to trying to win a stage for him this year.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Trying not to lose more than 2 mins (in order of probability): Garzelli,
Menchov, Valverde and Heras.

Garzelli, +4.20
Menchov, +2.20
Valverde, +1.32
Heras, +1.37

We're still going to be hearing that Roberto Heras can't time trial to
save his life, but for him to only lose 1:37 on this stage shows (imo) that
he isn't so bad at all. I doubt (ok, its pretty safe to say that I *know*
this) he'll ever win a big one against guys like Hamilton, but he is
starting to get to the point where he limits his losses to a manageable
level.

I would almost have bought this post, if Aitor Gonzalez and Roberto
Heras hadn't finished in basically the same time, not a whole lot
slower than Alejandro Valverde, and quicker than Cadel Evans, Jorg
Jaksche, Laszlo Bodrogi, Oscar Sevilla, and, well, 164 other riders...

There are many more time trials to come. The Vuelta did not end today.

-Sonarrat.

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:41:06 -0700, Sonarrat <> wrote.

Jeff, I think your computer clock (or timezone) is off, your posts
appear way before you write them.

Ewoud Dronkert <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:41:06 -0700, Sonarrat <> wrote.

Jeff, I think your computer clock (or timezone) is off, your posts
appear way before you write them.

Oh, really? Thanks for letting me know, I'm sure I could find some way
to take advantage of that 😉

-Sonarrat (on Google at the moment, so it won't have that effect)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 22:57:21 GMT, Boyd Speerschneider

bspeerscREMOVE_ME@ME_TOOyahoo.com said:

"alex" <[email hidden]> wrote in news:4142d0b0$0$28460$9b4e6d93
@newsread4.arcor-online.net:

Quoted message said:

Tyler has to show today if he still has it after his Olympic TT. If he wins
the TT today he will be the absolute favourite to win this race.

Results from todays stage:

58 Tadej Valjavec (Slo) Phonak Hearing Systems 10.52
59 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems

He's doing that "absolute favorite" tag of yours justice, no?

There seem to be three riders who really care, and have teams that
care, about winning this race. They are Roberto Heras, Alejandro
Valverde and Francisco Mancebo...

And I'm wondering who Kelme's mysterious "dark horse" is this time.
It seems like it could be one of several riders really...

-Sonarrat.