Voeckler has resisted well

velo bleu said:

he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught about
him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

Yep, to have lasted this long is a great acheivement. He's certainly a better
than average bike rider (also remember he's the French national champ). Who
knows, he may be in yellow still after saturday's stage. If he gets
significantly stronger, he may well be France's next big champ. This is his
second Tour, how long has he been pro?

Ken Very Big Liar said:

velo bleu said:

he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught about
him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

Yep, to have lasted this long is a great acheivement. He's certainly a better
than average bike rider (also remember he's the French national champ). Who
knows, he may be in yellow still after saturday's stage. If he gets
significantly stronger, he may well be France's next big champ. This is his
second Tour, how long has he been pro?

Dunno, but Voekler is on the White Jersey, too, so he's young.

On 16 Jul 2004 16:46:56 EDT, Richard Adams <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ken Very Big Liar said:

velo bleu said:

he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught about
him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

Yep, to have lasted this long is a great acheivement. He's certainly a better
than average bike rider (also remember he's the French national champ). Who
knows, he may be in yellow still after saturday's stage. If he gets
significantly stronger, he may well be France's next big champ. This is his
second Tour, how long has he been pro?

Dunno, but Voekler is on the White Jersey, too, so he's young.

He's 23, this is his first tour.

--
Robb McLeod ([email hidden])
A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a work station...

"velo bleu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught

about

Quoted message said:

him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

More than that, Voeckler and the whole B l B team have raced so far in a
honorable and intelligent manner. He has raced in a far more intelligent
manner than his years would suggest him capable. I think he has a great
future. It would be nice to see a French Tour Champion again.

Robb McLeod said:

On 16 Jul 2004 16:46:56 EDT, Richard Adams <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ken Very Big Liar said:

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:21:51 +0200, velo bleu <[email hidden]> wrote:

>he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught about
>him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
>jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

Yep, to have lasted this long is a great acheivement. He's certainly a better
than average bike rider (also remember he's the French national champ). Who
knows, he may be in yellow still after saturday's stage. If he gets
significantly stronger, he may well be France's next big champ. This is his
second Tour, how long has he been pro?

Dunno, but Voekler is on the White Jersey, too, so he's young.

He's 23, this is his first tour.

Heck of a way to start a Tour career, eh? Spend a week in yellow while
they big contenders play cat and mouse, then cling tenaciously to the
lead in the Pyrenees. Man he could ride the rest of his life and never
see it so good again.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Richard Adams said:

Robb McLeod said:

On 16 Jul 2004 16:46:56 EDT, Richard Adams <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ken Very Big Liar wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:21:51 +0200, velo bleu <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught
>>about
>>him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
>>jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.
>
>
>Yep, to have lasted this long is a great acheivement. He's certainly a
>better
>than average bike rider (also remember he's the French national champ).
>Who
>knows, he may be in yellow still after saturday's stage. If he gets
>significantly stronger, he may well be France's next big champ. This is
>his
>second Tour, how long has he been pro?
>

Dunno, but Voekler is on the White Jersey, too, so he's young.

He's 23, this is his first tour.

Heck of a way to start a Tour career, eh? Spend a week in yellow while
they big contenders play cat and mouse, then cling tenaciously to the
lead in the Pyrenees. Man he could ride the rest of his life and never
see it so good again.

He actually rode the Tour last year, finishing 119th @ 3.28.18 down.
What a difference a year makes?

--
tanx,
Howard

So far, so good, so what?

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

in article [email hidden], Robb McLeod at
[email hidden] wrote on 7/16/04 5:34 PM:

Quoted message said:

He's 23, this is his first tour.

http://www.trap-friis.dk/cykling/frankrig.Voeckler.htm

Wrong, and wrong. He's 25 and this is his second Tour.

Richard Adams said:

Robb McLeod wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

On 16 Jul 2004 16:46:56 EDT, Richard Adams <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Ken Very Big Liar wrote:
>On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 17:21:51 +0200, velo bleu <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
>>he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught about
>>him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
>>jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.
>
>
>Yep, to have lasted this long is a great acheivement. He's certainly a better
>than average bike rider (also remember he's the French national champ). Who
>knows, he may be in yellow still after saturday's stage. If he gets
>significantly stronger, he may well be France's next big champ. This is his
>second Tour, how long has he been pro?
>

Dunno, but Voekler is on the White Jersey, too, so he's young.

He's 23, this is his first tour.

He was in last year's, finishing 119th.

Quoted message said:

Heck of a way to start a Tour career, eh? Spend a week in yellow while
they big contenders play cat and mouse, then cling tenaciously to the
lead in the Pyrenees. Man he could ride the rest of his life and never
see it so good again.

Tom Kunich said:

"velo bleu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught
about
him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

More than that, Voeckler and the whole B l B team have raced so far in a
honorable and intelligent manner. He has raced in a far more intelligent
manner than his years would suggest him capable.

His way of riding isn't terribly economical though. A lot of small sprints
to catch up here and there, and frequently wobbling all over the road.

--
Stig Are M. Botterli
[email hidden]

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

His way of riding isn't terribly economical though. A lot of small sprints
to catch up here and there, and frequently wobbling all over the road.

It's so funny reading RBR hearing people question the tactics of a guy
who is road champion of France, has one stages of the pro races like
the Tour of Luxembourg, etc. It's like questioning the gear choices
of former champions of Germany and Belgium. Oh wait, the RBR
quarterbacks do that too.

JT

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

His way of riding isn't terribly economical though. A lot of small sprints
to catch up here and there, and frequently wobbling all over the road.

It's so funny reading RBR hearing people question the tactics of a guy
who is road champion of France, has one stages of the pro races like
the Tour of Luxembourg, etc. It's like questioning the gear choices
of former champions of Germany and Belgium. Oh wait, the RBR
quarterbacks do that too.

So you think dropping from your group and having teammates drop down to help
you, only to sprint back to the group a little later is a tactic?

As for the wobbling-'tactic', it's one I'm much too familiar with when the
riding gets tough...

Anyway, I was basically complimenting the kid. I'm amazed at how well he has
clung on despite his 'tactics'.

--
Stig Are M. Botterli
[email hidden]

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

His way of riding isn't terribly economical though. A lot of small sprints
to catch up here and there, and frequently wobbling all over the road.

It's so funny reading RBR hearing people question the tactics of a guy
who is road champion of France, has one stages of the pro races like
the Tour of Luxembourg, etc. It's like questioning the gear choices
of former champions of Germany and Belgium. Oh wait, the RBR
quarterbacks do that too.

So you think dropping from your group and having teammates drop down to help
you, only to sprint back to the group a little later is a tactic?

I don't know. Given that I have neither ridden nor coached someone at
that level, I would be extremely cautious to say it's bad. I don't
know enough about the sport at that level.

What basis in racing or coaching experience do you have to say it's
bad?

JT

in article [email hidden], Stig Are M. Botterli
at [email hidden] wrote on 7/17/04 12:07 PM:

Quoted message said:

Tom Kunich said:

"velo bleu" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

he is young and know he is not a big climber, so you shouldn't laught
about
him, he finished just 1'30'' or so behind Ullrich. he can keep the white
jersey if he doesn't run completly out of gas during the last week.

More than that, Voeckler and the whole B l B team have raced so far in a
honorable and intelligent manner. He has raced in a far more intelligent
manner than his years would suggest him capable.

His way of riding isn't terribly economical though. A lot of small sprints
to catch up here and there, and frequently wobbling all over the road.

It is a bit strange, because he climbs like a sprinter, as opposed to a
climber who can sprint. He seems tiny and explosive, a little bit like
Bettini...

-Sonarrat.

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<BD1F0295.501C%

Quoted message said:

It is a bit strange, because he climbs like a sprinter, as opposed to a
climber who can sprint. He seems tiny and explosive, a little bit like
Bettini...

-Sonarrat.

Last year when the OLN coverage came on the air Voeckler was just
starting the prologue and he sprinted out of the starthouse like he
was trying to rip his bike in half.

It looked more spectacular than it was though, his time was mediocre.

-Amit

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

So you think dropping from your group and having teammates drop down to help
you, only to sprint back to the group a little later is a tactic?

What basis in racing or coaching experience do you have to say it's
bad?

Who you are what you know doesn't make a lick of difference wrt the physics
of drafting and the effects of lactic acid.

--
Stig Are M. Botterli
[email hidden]

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

So you think dropping from your group and having teammates drop down to help
you, only to sprint back to the group a little later is a tactic?

What basis in racing or coaching experience do you have to say it's
bad?

Who you are and what you know doesn't make a lick of difference wrt the
physics of drafting and the effects of lactic acid.

[attempt to supersede]

--
Stig Are M. Botterli
[email hidden]

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

Stig Are M. Botterli said:

So you think dropping from your group and having teammates drop down to help
you, only to sprint back to the group a little later is a tactic?

What basis in racing or coaching experience do you have to say it's
bad?

Who you are and what you know doesn't make a lick of difference wrt the
physics of drafting and the effects of lactic acid.

What's interesting about the armchair theorists is how they can
simplify things to one thing they know about while ignoring the
complexity of sport.

I look at something that strikes me as odd in the Tour de France as an
opportunity to think "I wonder why he does that" and to see if I can
learn from it. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't. It's sometimes
even possible that the odd thing I see is "wrong" and I might have a
better approach. But luckily I don't have the hubris to think "Oh,
that's wrong" as often as the goobers we see in this group.

JT

"Amit" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Sonarrat <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<BD1F0295.501C%

Quoted message said:

It is a bit strange, because he climbs like a sprinter, as opposed to a
climber who can sprint. He seems tiny and explosive, a little bit like
Bettini...

Last year when the OLN coverage came on the air Voeckler was just
starting the prologue and he sprinted out of the starthouse like he
was trying to rip his bike in half.

It looked more spectacular than it was though, his time was mediocre.

Remember that most especially in short TT's aerodynamics makes a major
difference. All of that sitting up and sprinting is bad for times.

I suspect we're going to see a lot of Voeckler in the coming years and it's
probably going to be good.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Tom Kunich said:

I suspect we're going to see a lot of Voeckler in the coming years and it's
probably going to be good.

Do you think that Voeckler has shown more promise or accomplished more
yet than Lino did in 1992? He has not even ridden an ITT in this Tour
yet.

jyh.

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