VO2 max

warren said:

Here is a website that explains some exercise physiology.

home.hia.noexphys.htmOpen ↗

Thanks. This will keep me busy for a while. Very interesting.

--
Perre

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Ewoud Dronkert said:

Per Elmsäter said:

Quoted message said:

Look at www.concept.co.uk for a technique guide.

Are you sure about that link?

Should be concept2.co.uktechnique.phpOpen ↗ Also try
triton.studver.uu.nltriton.studver.uu.nlOpen ↗

Yes those two links worked much better. Thankyou. Took me a while to realize they were also
explaining in english on the dutch site. But that is normal for dutch people. They sound like they
speak dutch even when speaking other languages 😉

--
Perre

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Quoted message said:

2:00/500m for a 2km row is not particularly fast for someone who is considering bicycle racing.
That's only about 220 watts. You should be capable of 300-350 watts for this distance.

Why do you think I'm in there training 😉 I might mention that I'm 53 and not aspiring to do the
TdF. However I'd still want to be as good as I can.

Quoted message said:

Rowing will tax a number of muscles that you won't need or use for bicycling, but it is an
excellent exercise for overall conditioning.

That is my idea also, especially for winter crosstraining.

Quoted message said:

If you want to minimize the muscle buildup, then put the damper setting to the lowest possible
position ("1"😉. This won't lessen the amount of power, but it will require a higher stroke rate --
the equiv. of "spinning". Even better would be to find a concept2 machine on "slides", or a
"rowperfect", on which you keep your body more-or-less in the same place, but the machine moves
back & forth. Once again, higher stroke, less stress on the back muscles.

Good idea as has been pointed out previously. I'm not in there for the muscle buildup I'm there for
CardioVascular benefits.

--
Perre

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Per Elmsäter said:

dutch people. They sound like they speak dutch even when speaking other languages 😉

Day doo?

Ewoud Dronkert said:

Per Elmsäter said:

dutch people. They sound like they speak dutch even when speaking other languages 😉

Day doo?

ChhrrrYes!
--
Perre

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"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Silly? I thought I was a real man setting it at 10. If I set it at 4 or 5 should I do more
intervals instead then?....

....I'm 80 kg and usually doing splits between 1:52 and 2:00 for 1000-1500 meters, but that's at
level 10 so I'm sure I'll improve lots by just lowering the resistance. My tempo is approximately
30 strokes.

Turning down the resistance on an erg doesn't necessarily make it easier to go "fast". You're forced
to explode more on the drive of the stroke when the resistance is down. The reason "real" rowers use
lower resistance is because it feels more like rowing in a fast moving boat, and they're training to
be able to do so. Concept II actually sells an attachment that covers more of the wheel (presumably
so less air can rush into the blades and slow it down). They call it a speed ring or something. It
does make the handle feel lighter, but it makes

a year. During the winter one of the indoor workouts we would do would be an erg relay race. Teams
of 4, each person did 500m. The coach suggested covering the wheel with a sweatshirt. We rowed fast,
but we were in extreme pain.

for cross training in the winter time, don't torture yourself with any intervals shorter than 10
minutes. Focus on the legs. Think about snapping them down, but be careful not to "bumshoot".

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Allen said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In the gym today after I was done with the Smith machines etc I finished off with two 1000 m
intervals in the rowing machine at a high pace. About 2 min / 500 m. This gets me pretty close
to HR max.

You're almost certainly misusing the machine if that's 'high pace'. Look at www.concept.co.uk
for a technique guide. In particular, you're probably doing one or several of:

Are you sure about that link? It took me someplace that didn't seem to

have

Quoted message said:

much in common with training at any level 😉

Sorry - that should have been www.concept2.co.uk

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bumshoving, i.e. pushing with your legs without bracing your back, so your bum moves back but
the handle doesn't at the front. This will wreck your back.

Yes I.m kinda leaving the handle out front as long as I can so I can snap

it

Quoted message said:

in with my arms at the end of the stroke.

Doing what you describe is good, as long as you never have your bum moving but your shoulders fixed
(relative to the machine).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Setting a silly resistance level, like 7 or more, which puts much more stress on your back. Most
rowers use 4 or 5.

Silly? I thought I was a real man setting it at 10. If I set it at 4 or 5 should I do more
intervals instead then?

You might consider it - 4x1000m, or 2x2000m, maybe - but setting it at a lower resistance won't make
it much easier to pull 1:40 splits: the monitor detects the resistance, and the split correlates to
the work you're actually doing, wherever you set the resistance. You're doing a bit over 200 watts
for a 2:00 split, if that helps; there is a watts display, too. Mainly you should just concentrate
on producing more power - try getting a
1:50 split showing on the display, and keep that up for as long as you can in your 1000m pieces, if
you can finish the piece at that split go for 1:45, until you find what you can actually do.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

A typical vaguely fit man ought to be able to pull 1:50 splits for 1000m; if you think you're
properly fit then more like 1:40 splits. A reasonable split for a serious (lightweight, so circa
70kg, which is probably closer to your weight) rower would be around 1:33.

I'm 80 kg and usually doing splits between 1:52 and 2:00 for 1000-1500 meters, but that's at level
10 so I'm sure I'll improve lots by just lowering the resistance. My tempo is approximately 30
strokes.

What do you suggest a good programme would be for doing intervals on the rower?

You'll find your tempo goes up when you lower the resistance; try not to let it get too high (45 is
definitely too high, 40 is probably too high...).

Try doing 4 lots of 1000m, with the split about 1:50 for the first one; try not to let the split go
down too much for the following ones. If you've time, 3 lots of 2000m (at a slightly slower pace,
maybe 1:55, but the same sort of effort required to complete the piece) might be better.

Peter

Peter Allen said:

You'll find your tempo goes up when you lower the resistance; try not to let it get too high (45
is definitely too high, 40 is probably too high...).

Try doing 4 lots of 1000m, with the split about 1:50 for the first one; try not to let the split
go down too much for the following ones. If you've time, 3 lots of 2000m (at a slightly slower
pace, maybe 1:55, but the same sort of effort required to complete the piece) might be better.

Peter

Thanks Peter. Yes I found the site, somebody else pointed it out to me and the instructions there
were really helpful. I think my main mistakes were overstretching with a little bit of bumshoving as
a result. Can't wait to get back to the gym 😉

One final question on technique. Should I accelerate the motion of rowing so that I am finishing
faster than starting? Ie moderate legpush and leanback, snappy pull with the arms. OR Is it a steady
speed motion?

--
Perre

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Peter Allen said:

"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In the gym today after I was done with the Smith machines etc I finished off with two 1000 m
intervals in the rowing machine at a high pace. About 2 min / 500 m. This gets me pretty close to
HR max.

You're almost certainly misusing the machine if that's 'high pace'. Look at www.concept.co.uk for
a technique guide. In particular, you're probably doing one or several of:

Bumshoving, i.e. pushing with your legs without bracing your back, so your bum moves back but the
handle doesn't at the front. This will wreck your back.

Not finishing the stroke before coming back up the slide: you're supposed to finish with legs
fully extended, leaning slightly back (like 5 to 10 degrees), handle just touching the bottom
of the ribcage. If you're still pulling the handle in as your knees come up again, you're
wasting work.

Setting a silly resistance level, like 7 or more, which puts much more stress on your back. Most
rowers use 4 or 5.

Taking the catch/drive with the arms: so either your arms are bent when you start pushing with the
legs, or they become bent well before you finish. You'll know you're doing this if your elbows
hurt and your biceps become tired very quickly but your lats don't. Mainly a waste of work, but
can cause teno.

A typical vaguely fit man ought to be able to pull 1:50 splits for 1000m; if you think you're
properly fit then more like 1:40 splits. A reasonable split for a serious (lightweight, so circa
70kg, which is probably closer to your weight) rower would be around 1:33.

Peter

Thanks for all the tips Peter. Today in the Gym I dropped over 15 seconds on my splits immediately
by just thinking about doing it properly. I was doing between 1:35 and 1:40 both with high and low
resistance. Of course I couldn't keep it up for more than 500 m but that was more due to the fact
that I lost form after a while. I had to start out slow with good form and then succesively increase
my speed. At a certain point my untrained muscles would lose the timing and I'd be back in my old
ways again. Then I had to slow *way* down and start all over again. Nevertheless I sure felt like I
was rowing better than ever before.

--
Perre

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"Per Elmsäter" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Peter Allen said:

You'll find your tempo goes up when you lower the resistance; try not to let it get too high (45
is definitely too high, 40 is probably too high...).

Try doing 4 lots of 1000m, with the split about 1:50 for the first one; try not to let the split
go down too much for the following ones. If you've time, 3 lots of 2000m (at a slightly slower
pace, maybe 1:55, but the same sort of effort required to complete the piece) might be better.

Peter

Thanks Peter. Yes I found the site, somebody else pointed it out to me and the instructions there
were really helpful. I think my main mistakes were overstretching with a little bit of bumshoving
as a result. Can't wait to get back to the gym 😉

One final question on technique. Should I accelerate the motion of rowing

so

Quoted message said:

that I am finishing faster than starting? Ie moderate legpush and

leanback,

Quoted message said:

snappy pull with the arms. OR Is it a steady speed motion?

You should be accelerating the handle through the stroke: but not by trying to snap the arms in
hard, just by pushing hard with the legs (most of the power comes from the legs), leaning back then
does a bit of work (but if you concentrate on trying to work hard by leaning back you'll probably
lean too far; best to just think about sitting up tall after the leg drive), and arms probably don't
do that much work, unless you already have strong arms: but by that point the handle's already
moving fast.

Peter

Peter Allen said:

You should be accelerating the handle through the stroke: but not by trying to snap the arms in
hard, just by pushing hard with the legs (most of the power comes from the legs), leaning back
then does a bit of work (but if you concentrate on trying to work hard by leaning back you'll
probably lean too far; best to just think about sitting up tall after the leg drive), and arms
probably don't do that much work, unless you already have strong arms: but by that point the
handle's already moving fast.

Should one start these actions from a missionary position or is something a little more exotic
required ?

Per Elmsäter said:

What is the most effective way to increase your VO2max
during winter

I just happened to rerad this thread to see whether I'd
listened y'alls advice or not and it seems I did. I've
definitely done much more of intervals at or below LT Power.
I put a Polar Power Sensor on my bike that's on the trainer.
Warren Intervals of 2*20 at a consistent Power really feels
like they do something. I've also been doing 4*10 minute
intervals at slightly higehr Wattage and different cadence
for every interval. Then 8*60/60 at even higher power.

Kuhn, I really like that warmup you turned me on to.

Peter I can do 1.50 splits on the rowing machine at a
resistance of 5 and only doing 18 rpms. If I up my rpms
it's easy to do splits around 1.40. And this was just
technique. I can do 1.30 momentarily but not keep it up
without folding over.

Stewart You mentioned "Ventilatory treshold" This is
something I've experienced often. It seems I hit the
ventilatory treshold long before the lactate treshold. Do
you have any suggestions on how to improve this.

Now I'm just waiting for the sun so I can get out there and
do those looong rides.
--
Perre

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In article <[email hidden]>, Per Elmsäter

Quoted message said:

Per Elmsäter said:

What is the most effective way to increase your VO2max
during winter

I just happened to rerad this thread to see whether I'd
listened y'alls advice or not and it seems I did. I've
definitely done much more of intervals at or below LT
Power. I put a Polar Power Sensor on my bike that's on the
trainer. Warren Intervals of 2*20 at a consistent Power
really feels like they do something. I've also been doing
4*10 minute intervals at slightly higehr Wattage and
different cadence for every interval. Then 8*60/60 at even
higher power.

Kuhn, I really like that warmup you turned me on to.

Peter I can do 1.50 splits on the rowing machine at a
resistance of 5 and only doing 18 rpms. If I up my rpms
it's easy to do splits around 1.40. And this was just
technique. I can do 1.30 momentarily but not keep it up
without folding over.

Stewart You mentioned "Ventilatory treshold" This is
something I've experienced often. It seems I hit the
ventilatory treshold long before the lactate treshold. Do
you have any suggestions on how to improve this.

Now I'm just waiting for the sun so I can get out there
and do those looong rides.
--
Perre

Thanks for the followup.

-WG