Vitamin & Supplement Brands

Quoted message said:

heard that the vitamin and supplement industry isn't very
heavily regluated by the FDA Damus

That's a plus. The FDA and government in general is the
worse thing of all time for safe medicine and health care.

Quoted message said:

so what's the harm in ordering products from, say,
India? Damus

Damus, if that is the sort of day to day "logic" you apply
to critical health decisions...I think you should order
herbs from say India, Bangladesh.

"Damaeus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know this is probably a question asked trillions of
times, but is there any way to know which brands of
vitamins and supplements are truly what they say they are?

No.

Quoted message said:

I know that I should look for "natural" supplements,

Why? They are all chemcials.

Quoted message said:

but how does one know whether the item they're buying is
really what's contained in the capsule or gelcap?

One does not know what is in that tablet or capsule. Several
years ago testing was done on bottles of ephedra compounds,
and found that the potency of each tablet/capsule ranged
from 0% to 400% of the posted strength. Imagine if you took
four of the higher potency ones. People died.

Many of the FDA warnings and recall alerts are based on
'foreign' substances being in these products. Recently, they
found that some of the herbal viagara products contained the
real deal. Imagine buying something to avoid a medication
that you know you should not take, but get it anyway.

There are other compelling reasons, but, I hope by now you
get the point.

Quoted message said:

For example, how do I know that the capsule from a Kelp
bottle is really kelp and not lawn clippings from some
guy's front yard?

Good question. I can assure you that they are not my lawn
clippings. Beyond that, no guarantees. BTW, if you find a
company willing to bottle lawn clippings, let me know. They
can buy mine (which should be healthy, since I give my lawn
supplements,...errr....fertilizer....).

Quoted message said:

What brand do you trust? Do you trust the items you find
at Wal-Mart, or do you order online? What about products
shipped from overseas?

Risky, dude, risky.

I've

Quoted message said:

heard that the vitamin and supplement industry isn't
very heavily

regluated

Quoted message said:

by the FDA, so what's the harm in ordering products from,
say, India?

Good question. However,the fact that they are not more
closely regulated isa travesty. If something is sold as
beneficial to nes body, then it should be regulated just
like a pharmaceutical. The fact that ephedra was not
regulated resulted in hundreds of deaths and thousands of
reported adverse events. The supplement industry is fighting
a law which would merely require that they report all
adverse event reports to the FDA. This is utterly
scandalous.

Quoted message said:

Thanks, Damaeus

You are correct in what you say. I live in Canada and can
tell you there are likely 40 brands of supplements available
for sale. The true (w)holistic practitioners will recommend
about four brands (all will name the same 4 preferred
brands). I have not found a single independant health food
store in my area to be credible in that regard. There is a
holistic nutritionist in my area who promotes poor quality
products. The best place in my area is a chain of health
food stores called Nutrition House.

The reason that some MLM companies become well known is
because they have formulated a high quality nutritional
supplement. Many (w)holistic practitioners recommend them
for that reason. I personally have had great results with
some products that are marketed that way.

Supplement quality and efficacy is a function of the quality
and quantity of the input ingredients. Over 90% of
manufacturers don't manufacture their own nutritional
products. Commercial grade vitamin and mineral concentrates
are synthesized by the big pharmaceutical and chemical
industries from the same starting material that drugs are
made from (coal tar, petroleum products, animal by-products
/ waste and fecal matter, ground rocks, stones, shells and
metal). These processed materials are sold to many nutrient
manufacturers. The manufacturers are just mixing middlemen
who don't even know how these various vitamins and minerals
are made, or from what, nobody asks. Everybody just assumes
a vitamin is a vitamin.

The United States Pharmacopeia ( U.S.P. ) states that if a
product looks similar under a microscope, or in analysis,
that it is the same regardless of what it is made out of.
For instance salicylic acid u.s.p. is considered identical
whether it comes from wintergreen leaves or by boiling
coal in carbolic and sulfuric acids. It also considers
glycerin u.s.p. identical whether it is made from fresh
vegetables, toxic minerals or boiled down animal
carcasses, cartilage and feet.

Vitamins

Many products marketed as natural vitamins, may actually be
derived from sources that are not very desireable. Vitamin
B-12 and cyanocobalamin, is made from either ground up cow
livers or activated sewage sludge. If our cows are fed
steroids, antibiotics, growth hormones and grass full of
pesticides, how toxic are their livers? The sewage sludge is
fecal matter.

Given that in today's environment, our immune systems are
already depressed, these materials would be a health risk,
not a health benefit. Just because a so-called natural
substance (fecal matter is a natural substance) is high in a
particular vitamin, does not make it suitable for food.

Vitamin A is made from fish liver juices that we know are
loaded with PCB's and mercury, B vitamins from coal tar and
petro-chemicals, known central nervous system depressants,
respiratory irritants and carcinogens, Vitamin C from acid
blends irritating to the lining of the digestive tract,
Vitamin D from radiated oil, Vitamin E from Eastman Kodak,
and on and on. We are too often driven by the financial
needs of business and too little for our true well-being.

Minerals

The minerals commonly used in mineral supplements are mined
ore, pulverized and powdered to a fine dust. Some calcium is
made from ground up oyster shells. This is not a form that
is useable by our bodies. Modern research confirms that
minerals of this type are 99% inassimilable. The
manufacturers response to this is to add pig digestive
enzymes, which supposedly pre-digests it or chelates it, in
their attempts to force our body to accept these toxic
materials. We cannot find any proof that this provides any
duplication of chelation.

These manufactured supplements not only provide little
benefit, they could contribute to the further accumulation
of toxins in our bodies. What we really need for our health
is a natural whole food such as Aphanizomenon flos-aquae.

"Damaeus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know this is probably a question asked trillions of
times, but is there any way to know which brands of
vitamins and supplements are truly what they say they are?
I know that I should look for "natural" supplements, but
how does one know whether the item they're buying is
really what's contained in the capsule or gelcap?

For example, how do I know that the capsule from a Kelp
bottle is really kelp and not lawn clippings from some
guy's front yard?

What brand do you trust? Do you trust the items you find
at Wal-Mart, or do you order online? What about products
shipped from overseas? I've heard that the vitamin and
supplement industry isn't very heavily

regluated

Quoted message said:

by the FDA, so what's the harm in ordering products from,
say, India?

Thanks, Damaeus

"Damaeus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I know this is probably a question asked trillions of
times, but is there any way to know which brands of
vitamins and supplements are truly what they say they are?
I know that I should look for "natural" supplements, but
how does one know whether the item they're buying is
really what's contained in the capsule or gelcap?

You would know that the seller was truly interested in the
safery and needs of the consumer if they stuck to the
following rules, among others.. Unfortunately they are more
usually trying to "keep up with the Jones's" by outdoing
whatever other people are doing in the market.

1. The product would not have any unneeded herbal content.
No herbs are known to be safe or useful for long term
use in the healthy and it merely allows the seller to
charge more.

2. They should not contain unneeded or possibly harmful
levels of minerals. Iron is a definite no no in the non-
anaemic. Selenium is dangerous if taken in amounts not
much more than normal requiremnets, and should probably
only be needed in geographical areas of selenium
deficiency associated with a higher incidence of some
cancers (e,g, NZ).. Sodium and potassium are completely
unnecessary, but may have to be present in vitamin
salts. Too little is known to justify other minerals
such as zinc, or suggest what dose may be appropriate in
a population within which most or even all are not going
to be deficient..

3. They should be marked "NOT FOR CHILDREN". Adult
preparations are dangerous in children and you should be
teaching your kids to eat better, not rely on pills.

4. Megavitamin usage has not been reliably shown to be safe
and effective for any condition, despite the elapse of
thirty years of study. Benefits for added vitamins in
studies are inconsistent, and those that are seen are
from modest additional intake, especially if from the
diet. So a simple multivitamin with about normal
requirements and at most a little selenium might be
beneficial. I would expect most brands made in the USA by
major firms, even if cheap, would probably suffice.

And ask those who say they are selling "natural vitamins"
where they really get their vitamins from. You may have to
take more synthetic vitamin E than of the natural isomer to
get the same effect, but the evidence also suggests you will
do even better getting it from food.

Since big pharmaceutical companies make the vitamins that
the public has been consuming in such monumental amounts,
who on earth can you trust in this matter?

DISCLAIMER I.don't hold myself out to be any ultimate
authority on vitamins, but suspect I have looked at more of
the relevant evidence than most of those promoting them..

Peter Moran

In article <[email hidden]>,

Damaeus said:

I know this is probably a question asked trillions of
times, but is there any way to know which brands of
vitamins and supplements are truly what they say they are?
I know that I should look for "natural" supplements, but
how does one know whether the item they're buying is really
what's contained in the capsule or gelcap?

For example, how do I know that the capsule from a Kelp
bottle is really kelp and not lawn clippings from some
guy's front yard?

What brand do you trust? Do you trust the items you
find at Wal-Mart, or do you order online? What about
products shipped from overseas? I've heard that the
vitamin and supplement industry isn't very heavily
regluated by the FDA, so what's the harm in ordering
products from, say, India?

It's fairly rare to find assays of various supplements. I've
seen them in Consumer Reports a few times. There's also an
outfit called ConsumerLab that does tests of various
supplements and reports the ones that pass (but not the ones
that fail, which is unfortunate).

Based on what I've seen in Consumer Reports, you're usually
pretty safe going to Costco and buying their house brand
(Kirkland, and don't ask me where that name comes from).
Beyond that, I really don't know what to suggest.

OK, that's not quite true -- I would strongly suggest that
you ignore Spammin' Dave Wickware, who is a public nuisance,
remarkably ignorant, a major-league spammer, and far from
impartial (since he's all set to try to sell you stuff). Oh,
and forget about taking algae, be it Super Blue Green or any
other kind -- it's a really dismal source of nutrients.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

You don't know what your talking about on some of this,
Peter. My comments are mixed in below. <snip>

"Peter Moran" <[email hidden]> > You would know that the
seller was truly interested in the safery and needs

Quoted message said:

of the consumer if they stuck to the following rules,
among others.. Unfortunately they are more usually trying
to "keep up with the Jones's"

by

Quoted message said:

outdoing whatever other people are doing in the market.

1. The product would not have any unneeded herbal content.
No herbs are known to be safe or useful for long term
use in the healthy and it merely allows the seller to
charge more.

I agree that a most vitamin supplement should not have
herbs. And most don't and even when they do the doses of the
herbs are tiny. Anyway all supplements aren't just vitamins
and herbals, to frame the discussion in such a manner
betrays a hostile attitude.

Quoted message said:

2. They should not contain unneeded or possibly harmful
levels of

minerals.

Quoted message said:

Iron is a definite no no in the non-anaemic. Yes. Selenium
is dangerous if taken in amounts not much more than normal
requiremnets, and should probably

only

Quoted message said:

be needed in geographical areas of selenium deficiency
associated with a higher incidence of some cancers
(e,g, NZ)..

Animals studies indicate otherwise. And 200 mcg
supplementation doses are considered safe for adults. In
some area of mainland China people get rather large doses of
Se from their locally based diets without adverse events.

Quoted message said:

Sodium and potassium are completely unnecessary, but may
have to be present in vitamin salts.

In the case of Na, it a case of simple reporting on the
label. Anyway, some people try to restrict their Na. And K
is limited by regulation here in the States to 99 mgs for
OTC preparations.

Quoted message said:

Too little is known to justify other minerals such as
zinc, or suggest what

dose

Quoted message said:

may be appropriate in a population within which most or
even all are not going to be deficient..

Many will be short on zinc. ACE inhibitors cause excessive
excretion of Zn. Higher levels of Zn reduce Cd uptake which
is a very good thing.

Quoted message said:

3. They should be marked "NOT FOR CHILDREN". Adult
preparations are dangerous in children and you should
be teaching your kids to eat better, not rely on pills.

This comment is pure horse feathers. Just look at a label
and it will say something llike the following: "Suggested
Use: As dietary supplement use One (1) softgel in
adults..........." People know to adjust doses down to lower
levels for kids.

Further,in modern lifestyles in which people are in doors
far too many (perhaps most) are short on vitamin D. With
this vitamin, adult doses are too low for optimal health
even in infants and more so in adults..

Infants and small children might get a little too much
preformed vitamin A but only slightly from an adult dose
sized tablet. Most people are aware that small children and
infants have different needs. Such authoritarian thinking
results in having bathroom heaters bearing labels advising
buyers not to use heater in the bathroom.

More comments below.

Quoted message said:

4. Megavitamin usage has not been reliably shown to be
safe and effective for any condition, despite the
elapse of thirty years of study.

Your eyes are closed or a best looking in the review mirror.
You pulled the 30 year number out of your hat; if you are
focused on Linus Pauling that was longer ago .....try 35 to
40 years. Nor was he the first.

Inositol is quite effective in preventing panic attacks, and
treating various OCD disorders.

Vitamin E helps slow the onset diabetic complications.

Niacin is used to lower cholesterol.

Vitamin D and K can be used in the treatment of
osteoporosis. to help slow or even halt its progression. And
I mean 10X of the AIs. Not the tiny amounts found in most
supplements.

Vitamin D supplement at 2000 IU (not a typo) in infants
prevents type 1 diabetes in kids and young adults.

Coenzyme Q can be used to slow the onset of drug
toxicity. It modestly reduce blood pressure and improve
cardiac function.

High dose folic acid helps women genetically prone to
bearing neural tube defectives not to have a repeat
experience.

Combined high dose vitamin E and niacinamide slow the
progression of type 1 diabetes.

Modest doses of b6 (5x of RDA) and Mg lower the odds of
kidneys stones.

Many elderly are B-12 short, folic acid status impaired and
getting suboptimal levels of Mg. Some of this is due to meds
and some is due to impaired digestion and absorption. Not
all of this is due to poor diet choices.

Andropausal farts and their post-menopausal buddies will
wring their hands and say 'lets study it more before we act'
which is cowardly nonsense.On many of these things it time
to go mainstream and sort it out later.

Cowardly attitudes like yours have resulted in an inadequate
folic acid program which has added too little folic acid.
Result the reduction in NTD births was only 30% not the
possible 70% the research indicated as possible. Vitamin
fortification is just vitamin supplementation of the sly.

Quoted message said:

Benefits for added vitamins in studies are inconsistent,
and those that are seen

are

Quoted message said:

from modest additional intake, especially if from the
diet. So a simple multivitamin with about normal
requirements and at most a little selenium might be
beneficial. I would expect most brands made in the USA by
major firms, even if cheap, would probably suffice.

And ask those who say they are selling "natural vitamins"
where they

really

Quoted message said:

get their vitamins from. You may have to take more
synthetic vitamin E than of the natural isomer to get the
same effect, but the evidence also suggests you will do
even better getting it from food.

Dietary levels are likely too low to help slow the onset of
diabetic neuropathy. The evidence that food sources are
absorbed better aren't surprising as solublized forms of E
have been available since at least the early 70's and the
caution to take with the most fatty of meal of the day goes
back to at least the 60's. And anyway the reseach you refer
to if you refer to the latest research by Maret Tauber
(think I got the name right) doesn't compare vitamin E from
food (as I recall) rather it compares E fortified cereal to
a vitamin E capsule source as I recall. And the E capsules
used in the study weren't solublized.

Quoted message said:

Since big pharmaceutical companies make the vitamins that
the public has been consuming in such monumental amounts,
who on earth can you trust in this matter?

DISCLAIMER I.don't hold myself out to be any ultimate
authority on

vitamins,

Quoted message said:

but suspect I have looked at more of the relevant evidence
than most of those promoting them..

You don't show signs of it. IMO

Quoted message said:

Peter Moran

Lets see if Peter goes silent.......as Mark de Toad (of
sci.med.nutrition) often has.........................
..................William A. Noyes

I believe consumerslab DOES tell which brands of
vitamins/supplements/et al pass, pass conditionally or fail
their testing. However, it looks like a paid subscription to
their complete reports is necessary for all this
information. They do offer limited but free information at
their web site though.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

I believe consumerslab DOES tell which brands of
vitamins/supplements/et al pass, pass conditionally or fail
their testing. However, it looks like a paid subscription
to their complete reports is necessary for all this
information. They do offer limited but free information at
their web site though.

Yes, I believe the publically-available (for free) info
doesn't tell you which products failed the tests, and you
have to subscribe to get all the info.

-- David Wright :: alphabeta at prodigy.net These are my
opinions only, but they're almost always correct. "If I
have not seen as far as others, it is because giants were
standing on my shoulders." (Hal Abelson, MIT)

Vitamin Power's supplements are all certified. They are manufactured
to USP standards for dietary supplements. They have been in business
since 1975. You can get 20% OFF and free shipping on orders over
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[email hidden] wrote in message news:<18943-40C16B6C-255@storefull-
3131.bay.webtv.net>...

Quoted message said:

I believe consumerslab DOES tell which brands of
vitamins/supplements/et al pass, pass conditionally or
fail their testing. However, it looks like a paid
subscription to their complete reports is necessary for
all this information. They do offer limited but free
information at their web site though.

"tuxedoMan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Vitamin Power's supplements are all certified. They are
manufactured to USP standards for dietary supplements.
They have been in business since 1975. You can get 20% OFF
and free shipping on orders over $27.99 at
iamadingbatspammer.comiamadingbatspammer.comOpen ↗