VistaLite battery question

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by amirm
Hi everyone:
Does anybody out there use VistaLite NiMH batteries? Can any one tell me what's the output voltage on the charger? I currently have a NiCad. The charger has a 7.2 V output. I've bought a new NiMH battery, and would like to use the old charger. Don't know, though, whether VistaLite NiMH chargers have a different output voltage. Any help is appreciated.
Cheers,
Amir.

Give me and day or two & I'll get back to you about that.
Hopefully, other folks with Vistas should have revelent advice for you.

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by cfsmtb
Give me and day or two & I'll get back to you about that.
Hopefully, other folks with Vistas should have revelent advice for you.

Thanks cfsmtb.

I just found an old thread on this forum (May 03, by Gemma Kernich) through Google. The fact is both type batteries use 7.2 V output. The NiMH charger pumps 600mA whilst the NiCad does 300 mA. From the look of it, using NiCad charger will be safe, but it will take longer to charge the NiMH with the NiCad charger.

Having a smart charger seems a better way to go. I'll check it out at Tandy's or [censored] Smith's.

Cheers,
Amir.

"amirm" wrote

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone:

Does anybody out there use VistaLite NiMH batteries?
Can any one

tell me

Quoted message said:

what's the output voltage on the charger? I currently have
a NiCad.

The

Quoted message said:

charger has a 7.2 V output. I've bought a new NiMH
battery, and

would

Quoted message said:

like to use the old charger. Don't know, though, whether
VistaLite

NiMH

Quoted message said:

chargers have a different output voltage. Any help is
appreciated.

It's not the output voltage that is critical here. It's the
charge rate and time. NiMH batteries need a special charger
which turns itself off after a specific time. You can use
your existing charger if you watch the time. Do not leave
the NiMH batteries in your NiCad charger overnight.

Theo

"Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's not the output voltage that is critical here. It's
the charge rate and time. NiMH batteries need a special
charger which turns itself off after a specific time.

I have the Vistalite NiMH battery with supplied charger and
I don't believe it does this. The documentation warns about
not leaving the battery on charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to
avoid damage to the battery

Quoted message said:

You can use your existing charger if you watch the time.
Do not leave the NiMH batteries in your NiCad charger
overnight.

As stated that's what i've done so far.

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then stored
for some months? I am only an occasional user of the
Vistalite, for off road night rides. The tourer with its
dynamo set gets more use around town at night.

Cheers Peter

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then
stored for some months?

No. NiCd and NiMH both self discharge over time - NiCd seem
to lose about 20% a month, NiMH more like 50% a month. This
means if you leave a fully charged battery on the shelf,
after month it'll only be good for 80%/50% of its full
charge, depending on chemistry. This means there's little
point in charging a NiCd or NiMH battery before putting it
in storage.

Lead-Acid batteries, such as used on some Cateye lights, are
different. They do self discharge, but it takes a *long*
time. Leaving them flat causes nasty things to happen to the
chemistry, so *always* charge your Lead-Acid battery as soon
as possible after use.

From a basic charging point of view there's not much between
NiMH and NiCd. Both like constant current. A nominal 2400mAH
battery like I believe the NiMH nightstick is will takes
around 5 hours to fully charge off 600mA, and about 10 hours
to charge off 300mA. The 600mA charger makes it easy to
overcharge - 5 hours on charge for a 50% discharged battery
could easily damage it. 300mA can be left on for longer -
you're unlikely to damage a battery if you only ever leave
it on charge for 10 hours, even if you've only been riding
for a short time. I've no idea what the capacity of the NiCd
nightstick is, but a guess would say around 1800mA - don't
leave it on charge for more than about 6-8 hours, and that's
from empty.

If you don't use your lights much, the standard charger
should be fine. If you're using them all the time it's
probably worth investing in a cheap timer to ensure the
charger is switched off after an appropriate time, or a
decent charger that does this automatically. To work out
charging time, work out how much power you've used, then add
10-20%. Nearest half hour should be fine. For example, say
you've used a 10W bulb for 40 minutes. That's 10w/6V*
(40/60) = ~1.1 amps. You need to put in around 1.2 amps, so
a 2 hour charge is appropriate. Going up to 2h 15m puts in
1.35 amps and will ensure the battery is fully charged, with
a relatively low probability of damaging the battery. I
wouldn't go beyond 2.5 hours.

If you've got an old NiCd charger you're probably better off
using this more often if you've got NiMH batteries. Assuming
you're using them for around 90 minutes a day with a 10W
bulb you're going to have chewed most of the battery. Get
home at 7 and they'll be nicely charged by 7 the next
morning on the 300mA charger. The 600mA will be done by
midnight, which means you need a timer to turn them off or
you've got to stay up and watch Sports Tonight. Eewww.

Dave - who has heard good things about "Maha" chargers,
and uses an "MW1768" charger. Google should find suppliers
for either.

--
Dave Hughes [email hidden] Random miscellany, as
opposed to that other kind of miscellany -- Patrick
Shaughnessy

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Random Data
"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then
stored for some months?

No. NiCd and NiMH both self discharge over time - NiCd seem
to lose about 20% a month, NiMH more like 50% a month. This
means if you leave a fully charged battery on the shelf,
after month it'll only be good for 80%/50% of its full
charge, depending on chemistry. This means there's little
point in charging a NiCd or NiMH battery before putting it
in storage.

Lead-Acid batteries, such as used on some Cateye lights, are
different. They do self discharge, but it takes a *long*
time. Leaving them flat causes nasty things to happen to the
chemistry, so *always* charge your Lead-Acid battery as soon
as possible after use.

From a basic charging point of view there's not much between
NiMH and NiCd. Both like constant current. A nominal 2400mAH
battery like I believe the NiMH nightstick is will takes
around 5 hours to fully charge off 600mA, and about 10 hours
to charge off 300mA. The 600mA charger makes it easy to
overcharge - 5 hours on charge for a 50% discharged battery
could easily damage it. 300mA can be left on for longer -
you're unlikely to damage a battery if you only ever leave
it on charge for 10 hours, even if you've only been riding
for a short time. I've no idea what the capacity of the NiCd
nightstick is, but a guess would say around 1800mA - don't
leave it on charge for more than about 6-8 hours, and that's
from empty.

If you don't use your lights much, the standard charger
should be fine. If you're using them all the time it's
probably worth investing in a cheap timer to ensure the
charger is switched off after an appropriate time, or a
decent charger that does this automatically. To work out
charging time, work out how much power you've used, then add
10-20%. Nearest half hour should be fine. For example, say
you've used a 10W bulb for 40 minutes. That's 10w/6V*
(40/60) = ~1.1 amps. You need to put in around 1.2 amps, so
a 2 hour charge is appropriate. Going up to 2h 15m puts in
1.35 amps and will ensure the battery is fully charged, with
a relatively low probability of damaging the battery. I
wouldn't go beyond 2.5 hours.

If you've got an old NiCd charger you're probably better off
using this more often if you've got NiMH batteries. Assuming
you're using them for around 90 minutes a day with a 10W
bulb you're going to have chewed most of the battery. Get
home at 7 and they'll be nicely charged by 7 the next
morning on the 300mA charger. The 600mA will be done by
midnight, which means you need a timer to turn them off or
you've got to stay up and watch Sports Tonight. Eewww.

Dave - who has heard good things about "Maha" chargers,
and uses an "MW1768" charger. Google should find suppliers
for either.

--
Dave Hughes [email hidden] Random miscellany, as
opposed to that other kind of miscellany -- Patrick



Shaughnessy

Hi Dave:

I found your post very useful. It gave me the basic understanding that I needed. Thanks heaps.

Cheers,
Amir.

"Peter Signorini" wrote

Quoted message said:

I have the Vistalite NiMH battery with supplied charger
and I don't

believe

Quoted message said:

it does this. The documentation warns about not leaving
the battery on charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to avoid damage
to the battery

Then it's a [censored] charger. I have two NiMH chargers and I
stick the batteries in and forget it. It turns on a green
light when finished and stops charging. I can take the
batteries out next week. Having to monitor the damn thing
would be a pain in the proverbial.

Quoted message said:

As stated that's what i've done so far.

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then
stored for some months? I am only an occasional user of
the Vistalite, for off road night rides. The tourer with
its dynamo set gets more use around town at night.

As some-one else said, they leak down quite quickly. You
should recharge it every couple of weeks if you want to use
it. No damage will occur if left for six months or more.

Theo

Theo Bekkers <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Peter Signorini" wrote

Quoted message said:

I have the Vistalite NiMH battery with supplied charger
and I don't believe it does this. The documentation warns
about not leaving the battery on charge beyond about 4-5
hrs to avoid damage to the battery

Then it's a [censored] charger. I have two NiMH chargers and I
stick the batteries in and forget it. It turns on a green
light when finished and stops charging. I can take the
batteries out next week. Having to monitor the damn thing
would be a pain in the proverbial.

Hear! Hear!

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other
than a smart charger in the 21st century. Why are we even
talking about this stuff?

--

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two
hours of bloody, barbarous torture in gloating detail is
considered indicia of religious piety, whereas a mere second
gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for outraged
apoplexy." Betty Bowers,
bettybowers.commelgibsonpassion.htmlOpen ↗

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other
than a smart charger in the 21st century. Why are we even
talking about this stuff?

Because Vista, to my knowledge, still provide a "dumb"
charger, as do other suppliers. A very quick and nasty
constant current charger can be made for a few cents. It now
costs less than a dollar for a one-chip solution to do smart
charging, but that's fairly recent. Notice the number of new
manufacturers providing NiMH with smart chargers. I suspect
Vista will change very shortly, if they haven't already.

Li-Ion is still in its infancy. However, anyone not
providing a smart charger for Li-Ion (it may be
incorporated into the battery pack) is asking for a
lawsuit. Li-Ion fails in an amusing manner, unless you
happen to be close. This is why you can't buy Li-Ion cells
off the shelf, at least easily.

Dave - who is sorely tempted by some of the HID toys.

--
Dave Hughes [email hidden] "The problem with
people whose minds are in the gutter is that they keep
blocking my periscope." - Peter Gutmann

"Random Data" wrote

Quoted message said:

Because Vista, to my knowledge, still provide a "dumb"
charger, as do other suppliers. A very quick and nasty
constant current charger can be made for a few cents.

If you go to your local Post Office, you will find a
smart charger for AA batteries sells for $29.95. It will
charge 4 x NiMH batteries or 4 x NiCad batteries. You
can't mix them but it figures out what type of battery
you put in and charges accordingly. Even comes with 2 x
2100mAh AA's included.

It's obviously not expensive technology, nor rocket science.
You'd have to be dumb to buy a dumb charger now.

Theo

DRS said:

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other
than a smart charger in the 21st century. Why are we even
talking about this stuff?

Well, because Vistalight sets come with [censored] chargers...

I left mine on accidently went out for a BBQ, had to drive
home and turn them off. When I got back them, they were hot!
(like side of a mug of coffee hot) probably reduced the
quality of the batteries significantly.

The problem is you can make-do with the [censored] chargers that
you've already paid for, or shell out another hundred
dollars or so for a quality charger. Although I'm not known
for sparing expense when it comes to bike stuff, I can't
seem to justify the extra cash. I might walk down to Jaycar
today and see what they can do... 😉

I bet my battery is flat tonight after talking about this
sort of stuff... like I was thinking about the p*nct*re
fairy the other day - never even made it out of central
station...

-kt

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Kingsley

BOn Wed said:

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other
than a smart charger in the 21st century. Why are we even
talking about this stuff?

Well, because Vistalight sets come with [censored] chargers...

I left mine on accidently went out for a BBQ, had to drive
home and turn them off. When I got back them, they were hot!
(like side of a mug of coffee hot) probably reduced the
quality of the batteries significantly.

The problem is you can make-do with the [censored] chargers that
you've already paid for, or shell out another hundred
dollars or so for a quality charger. Although I'm not known
for sparing expense when it comes to bike stuff, I can't
seem to justify the extra cash. I might walk down to Jaycar
today and see what they can do... 😉

I bet my battery is flat tonight after talking about this
sort of stuff... like I was thinking about the p*nct*re
fairy the other day - never even made it out of central
station...

-kt [/B]

All points are valid. However, for my routine rides where the duration is almost the same everyday, now have started using a timer that turns the dumb charger off. Found the timer among other things that I don't use (junk??) in the garage. For now, it's better than forking out $$ for a smart charger. Problem is that I have such chargers for AAA/AA betteries, but not Vista ones.

Cheers,

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Kingsley
On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:55:31 +1000, DRS wrote:
I bet my battery is flat tonight after talking about this
sort of stuff... like I was thinking about the p*nct*re
fairy the other day - never even made it out of central
station...
-kt

AH, yes the P*nct*re Gods paid me a visit on Sunday arvo whilst cycling down Myers Creek Road (MBTC Mad Ride) Ever had a blowout in a thornproof tube, (front wheel), while doing 40-45k's?
Agghhhh 😠

Lesson, don't combine LX brakes with shagged out rims.

Anyway, was going to repond to amirms question a couple of days back. But others have dealt with it, no point duplicating information. cheers.

amirm said:

All points are valid. However, for my routine rides where
the duration is almost the same everyday, now have started
using a timer that turns the dumb charger off. Found the
timer among other things that I don't use (junk??) in the
garage. For now, it's better than forking out $$ for a
smart charger. Problem is that I have such chargers for
AAA/AA betteries, but not Vista ones.

One good thing about a smart charger, and not having to time
the charge, is that you can start charging a battery in any
unknown state of charge. Discharged, half charged, whatever
- the charger should sense full charge and drop back to a
maintenance charge indefinitely.

I don't have a VistaLite system, but I can suggest a good
cheap, smart charger. It's the ZA0100 from Oatley
Electronics (oatleyelectronics.combattery.htmlOpen ↗).
It's $29, and they supply two for that price. I use one for
my Cateye HL-1600 rechargeable bike light (6V, 5-cell NiMH).

Without internal modification, it can be switched to handle
one of three battery voltages: 4.8V, 6V or 7.2V. I see
reference to the VistaLite charger as 7.2V, but that might
just be the charger's output voltage, and not the battery
voltage (the charger must put out a higher voltage than the
battery to be charged). A 7.2V nickel-chemistry battery will
have 6 cells, and take a 7.2V bulb. If the bulb is 6V, then
it will be a 5-cell 6V battery. Switching this charger to
the correct voltage is very important.

The main downside of this charger is that you've got to
solder some leads to its terminals to connect it to your
battery pack. The terminals are not marked. Looking at the
front panel of the charger, the +ve terminal is on the right
(behind the wording "PRO-CELL"😉, and the -ve terminal is on
the left (behind the word "Fuzzy"😉. Note that the photo of
the charger on the Oatley site above is correct - it looks
nothing like the unit drawn in the PDF "User's Manual" at
oatleyelectronics.comza0100.pdfOpen ↗. The
functions a nd button names are correct though.

John

Theo Bekkers said:

Quoted message said:

it does this. The documentation warns about not leaving
the battery on charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to avoid
damage to the battery

Then it's a [censored] charger. I have two NiMH chargers and I
stick the batteries in and forget it. It turns on a green
light when finished and stops charging. I can take the
batteries out next week. Having to monitor the damn thing
would be a pain in the proverbial.

Absolutely! I would only buy lights from a company that
supply a smart charger. The light on mine glows when fully
charging, and blinks when trickle-charging.

cfsmtb <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

AH, yes the P*nct*re Gods paid me a visit on Sunday arvo
whilst cycling down Myers Creek Road (MBTC Mad Ride) Ever
had a blowout in a thornproof tube, (front wheel), while
doing 40-45k's? Agghhhh 😠

What sort of tyre?

--

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