VistaLite battery question

"amirm" wrote

Quoted message said:

Hi everyone:

Does anybody out there use VistaLite NiMH batteries? Can any one

tell me

Quoted message said:

what's the output voltage on the charger? I currently have a NiCad.

The

Quoted message said:

charger has a 7.2 V output. I've bought a new NiMH battery, and

would

Quoted message said:

like to use the old charger. Don't know, though, whether VistaLite

NiMH

Quoted message said:

chargers have a different output voltage. Any help is appreciated.

It's not the output voltage that is critical here. It's the charge
rate and time. NiMH batteries need a special charger which turns
itself off after a specific time. You can use your existing charger if
you watch the time. Do not leave the NiMH batteries in your NiCad
charger overnight.

Theo

amirm said:

Hi everyone: Does anybody out there use VistaLite NiMH batteries? Can
any one tell me what's the output voltage on the charger? I currently
have a NiCad. The charger has a 7.2 V output. I've bought a new NiMH
battery, and would like to use the old charger. Don't know, though,
whether VistaLite NiMH chargers have a different output voltage. Any
help is appreciated. Cheers, Amir.

Give me and day or two & I'll get back to you about that. Hopefully
other folks with Vistas should have revelent advice for you

-

cfsmtb said:

Give me and day or two & I'll get back to you about that. Hopefully,
other folks with Vistas should have revelent advice for you.

Thanks cfsmtb

I just found an old thread on this forum (May 03, by Gemma Kernich
through Google. The fact is both type batteries use 7.2 V output. Th
NiMH charger pumps 600mA whilst the NiCad does 300 mA. From the look o
it, using NiCad charger will be safe, but it will take longer to charg
the NiMH with the NiCad charger

Having a smart charger seems a better way to go. I'll check it out a
Tandy's or [censored] Smith's

Cheers, Amir

-

"Theo Bekkers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It's not the output voltage that is critical here. It's the charge
rate and time. NiMH batteries need a special charger which turns
itself off after a specific time.

I have the Vistalite NiMH battery with supplied charger and I don't believe
it does this. The documentation warns about not leaving the battery on
charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to avoid damage to the battery

Quoted message said:

You can use your existing charger if
you watch the time. Do not leave the NiMH batteries in your NiCad
charger overnight.

As stated that's what i've done so far.

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then stored for some
months? I am only an occasional user of the Vistalite, for off road night
rides. The tourer with its dynamo set gets more use around town at night.

Cheers
Peter

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then stored for some
months?

No. NiCd and NiMH both self discharge over time - NiCd seem to lose
about 20% a month, NiMH more like 50% a month. This means if you leave
a fully charged battery on the shelf, after month it'll only be good
for 80%/50% of its full charge, depending on chemistry. This means
there's little point in charging a NiCd or NiMH battery before putting
it in storage.

Lead-Acid batteries, such as used on some Cateye lights, are
different. They do self discharge, but it takes a *long* time. Leaving
them flat causes nasty things to happen to the chemistry, so *always*
charge your Lead-Acid battery as soon as possible after use.

From a basic charging point of view there's not much between NiMH and
NiCd. Both like constant current. A nominal 2400mAH battery like I
believe the NiMH nightstick is will takes around 5 hours to fully
charge off 600mA, and about 10 hours to charge off 300mA. The 600mA
charger makes it easy to overcharge - 5 hours on charge for a 50%
discharged battery could easily damage it. 300mA can be left on for
longer - you're unlikely to damage a battery if you only ever leave it
on charge for 10 hours, even if you've only been riding for a short
time. I've no idea what the capacity of the NiCd nightstick is, but a
guess would say around 1800mA - don't leave it on charge for more than
about 6-8 hours, and that's from empty.

If you don't use your lights much, the standard charger should be
fine. If you're using them all the time it's probably worth investing
in a cheap timer to ensure the charger is switched off after an
appropriate time, or a decent charger that does this automatically. To
work out charging time, work out how much power you've used, then add
10-20%. Nearest half hour should be fine. For example, say you've used
a 10W bulb for 40 minutes. That's 10w/6V* (40/60) = ~1.1 amps. You
need to put in around 1.2 amps, so a 2 hour charge is appropriate.
Going up to 2h 15m puts in 1.35 amps and will ensure the battery is
fully charged, with a relatively low probability of damaging the
battery. I wouldn't go beyond 2.5 hours.

If you've got an old NiCd charger you're probably better off using
this more often if you've got NiMH batteries. Assuming you're using
them for around 90 minutes a day with a 10W bulb you're going to have
chewed most of the battery. Get home at 7 and they'll be nicely
charged by 7 the next morning on the 300mA charger. The 600mA will be
done by midnight, which means you need a timer to turn them off or
you've got to stay up and watch Sports Tonight. Eewww.

Dave - who has heard good things about "Maha" chargers, and uses an
"MW1768" charger. Google should find suppliers for either.

--
Dave Hughes
[email hidden]
Random miscellany, as opposed to that other
kind of miscellany -- Patrick Shaughnessy

Random Data said:

"Peter Signorini" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then stored for
some months?

No. NiCd and NiMH both self discharge over time - NiCd seem to lose
about 20% a month, NiMH more like 50% a month. This means if you leave
a fully charged battery on the shelf, after month it'll only be good
for 80%/50% of its full charge, depending on chemistry. This means
there's little point in charging a NiCd or NiMH battery before putting
it in storage.
Lead-Acid batteries, such as used on some Cateye lights, are different.
They do self discharge, but it takes a *long* time. Leaving them flat
causes nasty things to happen to the chemistry, so *always* charge your
Lead-Acid battery as soon as possible after use.
From a basic charging point of view there's not much between NiMH and
NiCd. Both like constant current. A nominal 2400mAH battery like I
believe the NiMH nightstick is will takes around 5 hours to fully charge
off 600mA, and about 10 hours to charge off 300mA. The 600mA charger
makes it easy to overcharge - 5 hours on charge for a 50% discharged
battery could easily damage it. 300mA can be left on for longer - you're
unlikely to damage a battery if you only ever leave it on charge for 10
hours, even if you've only been riding for a short time. I've no idea
what the capacity of the NiCd nightstick is, but a guess would say
around 1800mA - don't leave it on charge for more than about 6-8 hours,
and that's from empty.
If you don't use your lights much, the standard charger should be fine.
If you're using them all the time it's probably worth investing in a
cheap timer to ensure the charger is switched off after an appropriate
time, or a decent charger that does this automatically. To work out
charging time, work out how much power you've used, then add 10-20%.
Nearest half hour should be fine. For example, say you've used a 10W
bulb for 40 minutes. That's 10w/6V*
(40/60) = ~1.1 amps. You need to put in around 1.2 amps, so a 2 hour
charge is appropriate. Going up to 2h 15m puts in
41.35 amps and will ensure the battery is fully charged, with a
relatively low probability of damaging the battery. I wouldn't go
beyond 2.5 hours.
If you've got an old NiCd charger you're probably better off using this
more often if you've got NiMH batteries. Assuming you're using them for
around 90 minutes a day with a 10W bulb you're going to have chewed most
of the battery. Get home at 7 and they'll be nicely charged by 7 the
next morning on the 300mA charger. The 600mA will be done by midnight,
which means you need a timer to turn them off or you've got to stay up
and watch Sports Tonight. Eewww.
Dave - who has heard good things about "Maha" chargers, and uses an
"MW1768" charger. Google should find suppliers for either.
--
Dave Hughes [email hidden] Random miscellany, as opposed to
that other kind of miscellany -- Patrick
Shaughnessy

Hi Dave

I found your post very useful. It gave me the basic understanding that
needed. Thanks heaps

Cheers, Amir

-

"Peter Signorini" wrote

Quoted message said:

I have the Vistalite NiMH battery with supplied charger and I don't

believe

Quoted message said:

it does this. The documentation warns about not leaving the battery on
charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to avoid damage to the battery

Then it's a [censored] charger. I have two NiMH chargers and I stick the batteries
in and forget it. It turns on a green light when finished and stops
charging. I can take the batteries out next week. Having to monitor the damn
thing would be a pain in the proverbial.

Quoted message said:

As stated that's what i've done so far.

BTW will the battery be damaged if fully charged then stored for some
months? I am only an occasional user of the Vistalite, for off road night
rides. The tourer with its dynamo set gets more use around town at night.

As some-one else said, they leak down quite quickly. You should recharge it
every couple of weeks if you want to use it. No damage will occur if left
for six months or more.

Theo

Theo Bekkers <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

Quoted message said:

"Peter Signorini" wrote

Quoted message said:

I have the Vistalite NiMH battery with supplied charger and I don't
believe it does this. The documentation warns about not leaving the
battery on charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to avoid damage to the battery

Then it's a [censored] charger. I have two NiMH chargers and I stick the
batteries in and forget it. It turns on a green light when finished
and stops charging. I can take the batteries out next week. Having to
monitor the damn thing would be a pain in the proverbial.

Hear! Hear!

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other than a smart
charger in the 21st century. Why are we even talking about this stuff?

--

"I'm proud that I live in a country where witnessing two hours of bloody,
barbarous torture in gloating detail is considered indicia of religious
piety, whereas a mere second gazing upon a woman's breast is cause for
outraged apoplexy."
Betty Bowers, http://www.bettybowers.com/melgibsonpassion.html

"DRS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other than a smart
charger in the 21st century. Why are we even talking about this stuff?

Because Vista, to my knowledge, still provide a "dumb" charger, as do
other suppliers. A very quick and nasty constant current charger can
be made for a few cents. It now costs less than a dollar for a
one-chip solution to do smart charging, but that's fairly recent.
Notice the number of new manufacturers providing NiMH with smart
chargers. I suspect Vista will change very shortly, if they haven't
already.

Li-Ion is still in its infancy. However, anyone not providing a smart
charger for Li-Ion (it may be incorporated into the battery pack) is
asking for a lawsuit. Li-Ion fails in an amusing manner, unless you
happen to be close. This is why you can't buy Li-Ion cells off the
shelf, at least easily.

Dave - who is sorely tempted by some of the HID toys.

--
Dave Hughes
[email hidden]
"The problem with people whose minds are in the gutter is that they
keep
blocking my periscope." - Peter Gutmann

"Random Data" wrote

Quoted message said:

Because Vista, to my knowledge, still provide a "dumb" charger, as do
other suppliers. A very quick and nasty constant current charger can
be made for a few cents.

If you go to your local Post Office, you will find a smart charger for AA
batteries sells for $29.95. It will charge 4 x NiMH batteries or 4 x NiCad
batteries. You can't mix them but it figures out what type of battery you
put in and charges accordingly. Even comes with 2 x 2100mAh AA's included.

It's obviously not expensive technology, nor rocket science. You'd have to
be dumb to buy a dumb charger now.

Theo

DRS said:

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other than
a smart charger in the 21st century. Why are we even talking
about this stuff?

Well, because Vistalight sets come with [censored] chargers...

I left mine on accidently went out for a BBQ, had to drive
home and turn them off. When I got back them, they were hot!
(like side of a mug of coffee hot) probably reduced the
quality of the batteries significantly.

The problem is you can make-do with the [censored] chargers
that you've already paid for, or shell out another hundred
dollars or so for a quality charger. Although I'm not
known for sparing expense when it comes to bike stuff, I
can't seem to justify the extra cash. I might walk down
to Jaycar today and see what they can do... 😉

I bet my battery is flat tonight after talking about this
sort of stuff... like I was thinking about the p*nct*re fairy
the other day - never even made it out of central station...

-kt

Kingsley said:

On Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:55:31 +1000, DRS wrote: I bet my battery is flat
tonight after talking about this sort of stuff... like I was thinking
about the p*nct*re fairy the other day - never even made it out of
central station... -kt

AH, yes the P*nct*re Gods paid me a visit on Sunday arvo whilst cyclin
down Myers Creek Road (MBTC Mad Ride) Ever had a blowout in a thornproo
tube, (front wheel), while doing 40-45k's? Agghhhh :mad

Lesson, don't combine LX brakes with shagged out rims

Anyway, was going to repond to amirms question a couple of days back
But others have dealt with it, no point duplicating information. cheers

-

Kingsley said:

DRS said:

I can't believe that anybody would use any charger other than a smart
charger in the 21st century. Why are we even talking about this stuff?

Well, because Vistalight sets come with [censored] chargers...
I left mine on accidently went out for a BBQ, had to drive home and turn
them off. When I got back them, they were hot! (like side of a mug of
coffee hot) probably reduced the quality of the batteries significantly.
The problem is you can make-do with the [censored] chargers that you've
already paid for, or shell out another hundred dollars or so for a
quality charger. Although I'm not known for sparing expense when it
comes to bike stuff, I can't seem to justify the extra cash. I might
walk down to Jaycar today and see what they can do... 😉
I bet my battery is flat tonight after talking about this sort of
stuff... like I was thinking about the p*nct*re fairy the other day -
never even made it out of central station...
-kt

All points are valid. However, for my routine rides where the duratio
is almost the same everyday, now have started using a timer that turn
the dumb charger off. Found the timer among other things that I don'
use (junk??) in the garage. For now, it's better than forking out $$ fo
a smart charger. Problem is that I have such chargers for AAA/A
betteries, but not Vista ones

Cheers

-

Theo Bekkers said:

Quoted message said:

it does this. The documentation warns about not leaving the battery on
charge beyond about 4-5 hrs to avoid damage to the battery

Then it's a [censored] charger. I have two NiMH chargers and I stick the batteries
in and forget it. It turns on a green light when finished and stops
charging. I can take the batteries out next week. Having to monitor the damn
thing would be a pain in the proverbial.

Absolutely! I would only buy lights from a company that supply a
smart charger. The light on mine glows when fully charging, and
blinks when trickle-charging.

amirm said:

All points are valid. However, for my routine rides where the
duration is almost the same everyday, now have started using a
timer that turns the dumb charger off. Found the timer among
other things that I don't use (junk??) in the garage. For now,
it's better than forking out $$ for a smart charger. Problem is
that I have such chargers for AAA/AA betteries, but not Vista
ones.

One good thing about a smart charger, and not having to time the
charge, is that you can start charging a battery in any unknown
state of charge. Discharged, half charged, whatever - the
charger should sense full charge and drop back to a maintenance
charge indefinitely.

I don't have a VistaLite system, but I can suggest a good cheap,
smart charger. It's the ZA0100 from Oatley Electronics
(http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/battery.html). It's $29, and
they supply two for that price. I use one for my Cateye HL-1600
rechargeable bike light (6V, 5-cell NiMH).

Without internal modification, it can be switched to handle one
of three battery voltages: 4.8V, 6V or 7.2V. I see reference to
the VistaLite charger as 7.2V, but that might just be the
charger's output voltage, and not the battery voltage (the
charger must put out a higher voltage than the battery to be
charged). A 7.2V nickel-chemistry battery will have 6 cells, and
take a 7.2V bulb. If the bulb is 6V, then it will be a 5-cell 6V
battery. Switching this charger to the correct voltage is very
important.

The main downside of this charger is that you've got to solder
some leads to its terminals to connect it to your battery pack.
The terminals are not marked. Looking at the front panel of the
charger, the +ve terminal is on the right (behind the wording
"PRO-CELL"😉, and the -ve terminal is on the left (behind the word
"Fuzzy"😉. Note that the photo of the charger on the Oatley site
above is correct - it looks nothing like the unit drawn in the
PDF "User's Manual" at
http://www.oatleyelectronics.com/pdf/za0100.pdf. The functions a
nd button names are correct though.

John

cfsmtb <[email hidden]> wrote in message
[email hidden]

[...]

Quoted message said:

AH, yes the P*nct*re Gods paid me a visit on Sunday arvo whilst
cycling down Myers Creek Road (MBTC Mad Ride) Ever had a blowout in a
thornproof tube, (front wheel), while doing 40-45k's? Agghhhh 😠

What sort of tyre?

--

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