Vision Crash Causes Jitters

Check what your weight balance is by using a bathroom scale and a block of wood the same thickness
as the scale. This procedure requires some help. Place the scale under one wheel, block of wood
under, hold the brakes and get on the bike as you would ride it. Have your help check the scale.
Turn the bike around, repeat the process. You will also need to have the total weight for %
calculations. Check your old bike too. When going downhill the weight shifts forward increasing the
load on the front wheel. My preference is 40% on the front. Feels safest to me. Many short wheelbase
bikes are over 50% on front. Old Hypercycles were 75%

On fast down hills they were quite the handful, hit the front brakes on level ground and the rear
wheel would lift.

Steve "Speedy" Delaire

Fred said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride. I didn't have toe clips or straps on, which probably was a big
mistake. The seat was initially set in the rear position, but since I needed to shorten the
distance to the pedals quite a bit, we moved it to the forward position, then brought the boom
back an inch or so. This avoided having to shorten the chain before I rode it.

I was a little wobbly at low speeds at first, but quickly adjusted and felt comfortable at low and
medium speeds. However at the first hill, I shifted to the large chainring and the bike started to
wobble when I peddled. I coasted the rest of that hill and the next two I encountered, figuring I
need more practice before pedaling at higher speeds.

Unfortunately, on the last hill coming back into the village, I crashed pretty hard, and the shock
seems to have caused me to forget the exact sequence of events. All I remember is feeling
unstable, and applying the brakes in response. I crashed hard on the left side then was thrown
forward onto the pavement on my stomach with the bike ending up on top of me. After picking myself
and bike up and preparing it to ride again, I noticed that the chain was on the smallest cog in
back, and derailed to the inside of the chainrings in front.

Upon reflection, I think what may have happened is that upon reaching the small cog in back, I
attempted to shift to the large ring in front, but clicked the downshift lever instead of the
upshift lever. This would have caused my legs to spin and possibly my feet came off the pedals or
started to come off causing me to instinctively hit the brakes. For me the brakes where a hair
trigger, prone to locking with very little pressure.

My current bike, that I'm planning on relegating to the basement as an exercise bike, is a 20 year
old lwb Infinity recumbent with uss operated by cables to the front fork. I've ridden this bike
thousands of miles with nary a fall nor fear of one. I've ridden uprights for 30 years, including
Cat III road racing for 3 years, with only 2 crashes. The only near crash I had on my Infinity,
was very similar to what may have happened on the Vision test ride. I was starting down a hill and
shifted the wrong way to my granny instead of to my large ring. The resulting lurch caused the
chain (vary loose at this point in the small, small configuration) to catch under the rear wheel
and wrap, braking the rear derailleur and dropout, and locking the rear wheel. I steered the bike
to a stop with little effort, and no fall.

Now I find myself nervous about riding the Vision again. It certainly is far less stable than my
Infinity. I'm sure with practice I'll get better at the direct, quick steering, and cleats, clips
and straps (which I've always used) should keep my feet on the pedals and my peddling strokes
rounder.

One thing I'm wondering about, is if moving the seat to the forward position was not a good idea
and that stability might improve if it were moved back and would appreciate any opinions.

Another possibility is converting it to medium wheelbase by using the manufacturer's kit for this
purpose. Does anyone have experience with the bike's handling in this configuration?

Thanks for getting to this point in the message as I realize its quite long-winded.

Fred

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[email hidden] (Fred) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride. I didn't have toe clips or straps on, which probably was a big
mistake. The seat was initially set in the rear position, but since I needed to shorten the
distance to the pedals quite a bit, we moved it to the forward position, then brought the boom
back an inch or so. This avoided having to shorten the chain before I rode it.

I was a little wobbly at low speeds at first, but quickly adjusted and felt comfortable at low and
medium speeds. However at the first hill, I shifted to the large chainring and the bike started to
wobble when I peddled. I coasted the rest of that hill and the next two I encountered, figuring I
need more practice before pedaling at higher speeds.

Unfortunately, on the last hill coming back into the village, I crashed pretty hard, and the shock
seems to have caused me to forget the exact sequence of events. All I remember is feeling
unstable, and applying the brakes in response. I crashed hard on the left side then was thrown
forward onto the pavement on my stomach with the bike ending up on top of me. After picking myself
and bike up and preparing it to ride again, I noticed that the chain was on the smallest cog in
back, and derailed to the inside of the chainrings in front.

Upon reflection, I think what may have happened is that upon reaching the small cog in back, I
attempted to shift to the large ring in front, but clicked the downshift lever instead of the
upshift lever. This would have caused my legs to spin and possibly my feet came off the pedals or
started to come off causing me to instinctively hit the brakes. For me the brakes where a hair
trigger, prone to locking with very little pressure.

My current bike, that I'm planning on relegating to the basement as an exercise bike, is a 20 year
old lwb Infinity recumbent with uss operated by cables to the front fork. I've ridden this bike
thousands of miles with nary a fall nor fear of one. I've ridden uprights for 30 years, including
Cat III road racing for 3 years, with only 2 crashes. The only near crash I had on my Infinity,
was very similar to what may have happened on the Vision test ride. I was starting down a hill and
shifted the wrong way to my granny instead of to my large ring. The resulting lurch caused the
chain (vary loose at this point in the small, small configuration) to catch under the rear wheel
and wrap, braking the rear derailleur and dropout, and locking the rear wheel. I steered the bike
to a stop with little effort, and no fall.

Now I find myself nervous about riding the Vision again. It certainly is far less stable than my
Infinity. I'm sure with practice I'll get better at the direct, quick steering, and cleats, clips
and straps (which I've always used) should keep my feet on the pedals and my peddling strokes
rounder.

One thing I'm wondering about, is if moving the seat to the forward position was not a good idea
and that stability might improve if it were moved back and would appreciate any opinions.

Another possibility is converting it to medium wheelbase by using the manufacturer's kit for this
purpose. Does anyone have experience with the bike's handling in this configuration?

Thanks for getting to this point in the message as I realize its quite long-winded.

Fred

Hi,

I have a R40 Uss.

I have ridden down many hills in the three years i've had this bike and at no time had a shaking
problem in fact I found this bike gets steadier the faster I go, My fastest speed so far has
been 39 mpg.

I also have a R50 oss with a Mueller fairing, this bike is not as steady at high speed, I tend to
chicken out at 32 mpg because of the vibration.

Upon further thought both bikes have Ballistic forks on 20" wheels maybe the R50 fork is set
too light or heavy, I don't know the answer but I will have to play with the settings to see if
I am right.

Hope this info helps.

Tom H

ps does your bike have a shock fork ? if so what kind?

"Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride. I didn't have toe clips or straps on, which probably was a big
mistake. The seat was initially set in the rear position, but since I needed to shorten the
distance to the pedals quite a bit, we moved it to the forward position, then brought the boom
back an inch or so. This avoided having to shorten the chain before I rode it.

I was a little wobbly at low speeds at first, but quickly adjusted and felt comfortable at low and
medium speeds. However at the first hill, I shifted to the large chainring and the bike started to
wobble when I peddled. I coasted the rest of that hill and the next two I encountered, figuring I
need more practice before pedaling at higher speeds.

Unfortunately, on the last hill coming back into the village, I crashed pretty hard, and the shock
seems to have caused me to forget the exact sequence of events. All I remember is feeling
unstable, and applying the brakes in response. I crashed hard on the left side then was thrown
forward onto the pavement on my stomach with the bike ending up on top of me. After picking myself
and bike up and preparing it to ride again, I noticed that the chain was on the smallest cog in
back, and derailed to the inside of the chainrings in front.

Upon reflection, I think what may have happened is that upon reaching the small cog in back, I
attempted to shift to the large ring in front, but clicked the downshift lever instead of the
upshift lever. This would have caused my legs to spin and possibly my feet came off the pedals or
started to come off causing me to instinctively hit the brakes. For me the brakes where a hair
trigger, prone to locking with very little pressure.

My current bike, that I'm planning on relegating to the basement as an exercise bike, is a 20 year
old lwb Infinity recumbent with uss operated by cables to the front fork. I've ridden this bike
thousands of miles with nary a fall nor fear of one. I've ridden uprights for 30 years, including
Cat III road racing for 3 years, with only 2 crashes. The only near crash I had on my Infinity,
was very similar to what may have happened on the Vision test ride. I was starting down a hill and
shifted the wrong way to my granny instead of to my large ring. The resulting lurch caused the
chain (vary loose at this point in the small, small configuration) to catch under the rear wheel
and wrap, braking the rear derailleur and dropout, and locking the rear wheel. I steered the bike
to a stop with little effort, and no fall.

Now I find myself nervous about riding the Vision again. It certainly is far less stable than my
Infinity. I'm sure with practice I'll get better at the direct, quick steering, and cleats, clips
and straps (which I've always used) should keep my feet on the pedals and my peddling strokes
rounder.

One thing I'm wondering about, is if moving the seat to the forward position was not a good idea
and that stability might improve if it were moved back and would appreciate any opinions.

Another possibility is converting it to medium wheelbase by using the manufacturer's kit for this
purpose. Does anyone have experience with the bike's handling in this configuration?

Thanks for getting to this point in the message as I realize its quite long-winded.

Fred

I have an R50 and haven't felt that, I think the fastest I've been on it is in the mid 40's

Hi, Fred: Crashes are spooky. I'm glad to hear you didn't get hurt (I assume!). Short wheel base
bents do take some getting used to. I rode several hundred miles on my dear Haluzak before I was
"solid" and could take any hill as fast as I wanted--though I was always aware of the sometimes
delicate balance required at speed. I hope to own another SWB in the future, but for big stability
pn big descents, I've opted for a LWB. I want to tour as well, so I've ordered a Tour Easy EX. It
was a close call between that and the Slipstream by Longbikes, which might be the perfect
replacement for the Infinity. It's a LWB, USS, and renowned for craftsmanship and superb handling.
For what it's worth, you should gain confidence with time.

Ride safely,

Scott

[email hidden] (Fred) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride. I didn't have toe clips or straps on, which probably was a big
mistake. The seat was initially set in the rear position, but since I needed to shorten the
distance to the pedals quite a bit, we moved it to the forward position, then brought the boom
back an inch or so. This avoided having to shorten the chain before I rode it.

I was a little wobbly at low speeds at first, but quickly adjusted and felt comfortable at low and
medium speeds. However at the first hill, I shifted to the large chainring and the bike started to
wobble when I peddled. I coasted the rest of that hill and the next two I encountered, figuring I
need more practice before pedaling at higher speeds.

Unfortunately, on the last hill coming back into the village, I crashed pretty hard, and the shock
seems to have caused me to forget the exact sequence of events. All I remember is feeling
unstable, and applying the brakes in response. I crashed hard on the left side then was thrown
forward onto the pavement on my stomach with the bike ending up on top of me. After picking myself
and bike up and preparing it to ride again, I noticed that the chain was on the smallest cog in
back, and derailed to the inside of the chainrings in front.

Upon reflection, I think what may have happened is that upon reaching the small cog in back, I
attempted to shift to the large ring in front, but clicked the downshift lever instead of the
upshift lever. This would have caused my legs to spin and possibly my feet came off the pedals or
started to come off causing me to instinctively hit the brakes. For me the brakes where a hair
trigger, prone to locking with very little pressure.

My current bike, that I'm planning on relegating to the basement as an exercise bike, is a 20 year
old lwb Infinity recumbent with uss operated by cables to the front fork. I've ridden this bike
thousands of miles with nary a fall nor fear of one. I've ridden uprights for 30 years, including
Cat III road racing for 3 years, with only 2 crashes. The only near crash I had on my Infinity,
was very similar to what may have happened on the Vision test ride. I was starting down a hill and
shifted the wrong way to my granny instead of to my large ring. The resulting lurch caused the
chain (vary loose at this point in the small, small configuration) to catch under the rear wheel
and wrap, braking the rear derailleur and dropout, and locking the rear wheel. I steered the bike
to a stop with little effort, and no fall.

Now I find myself nervous about riding the Vision again. It certainly is far less stable than my
Infinity. I'm sure with practice I'll get better at the direct, quick steering, and cleats, clips
and straps (which I've always used) should keep my feet on the pedals and my peddling strokes
rounder.

One thing I'm wondering about, is if moving the seat to the forward position was not a good idea
and that stability might improve if it were moved back and would appreciate any opinions.

Another possibility is converting it to medium wheelbase by using the manufacturer's kit for this
purpose. Does anyone have experience with the bike's handling in this configuration?

Thanks for getting to this point in the message as I realize its quite long-winded.

Fred

[email hidden] (Fred) wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride.

Fred,

Sorry about the spill. I think that you may be on the wrong side of the "learning curve" at this
point on SWB behavior. I had similar feelings of impending doom when I first started riding my
Barcroft Dakota. Pedaling down hill would set up a phugoid occillation that was scary. I was over
correcting and making things worse. I finally started to relax when I rode and the problem went
away. I have always used clipless pedals on high botom bracket bikes.

On my GRR I hit 48.9 on a ride last week-end and it was like riding a Honda Goldwing. I was too
chicken to let off of the brakes and let it run.

Get back on the "horse" and ride.

Jerry

Fred,

My R-40 also came with SWB and USS, and frankly I'm surprised to learn of your unfortunate crash,
especially since you have prior experience with an USS recumbent. When I first got mine (my first
recumbent) I found the steering a little twitchy at low speeds, but the salesperson counseled me to
just relax and keep my shoulders planted on the seatback at all times. I've found this to be good
advice, since the bike gets REALLY twitchy when I try to lean forward at all. Only spills I've had
in 5000 miles have been at ultra-low speeds, usually when trying to get going from a stop light (how
embarrassing!). Also, low-speed turning radius is somewhat limited with USS. But at higher speeds
(I've been up around 45 before) I've found that the steering gets more stable. But God help you if
you get a water bottle (or anything else) stuck between the handlebar and the side of the seat...
then you're going down for sure. Get a Platypus instead: much safer.

Bill Anton 2001 Vision R-40 26x26 SWB OSS Lubbock, TX, USA

"Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride. I didn't have toe clips or straps on, which probably was a big
mistake. The seat was initially set in the rear position, but since I needed to shorten the
distance to the pedals quite a bit, we moved it to the forward position, then brought the boom
back an inch or so. This avoided having to shorten the chain before I rode it.

I was a little wobbly at low speeds at first, but quickly adjusted and felt comfortable at low and
medium speeds. However at the first hill, I shifted to the large chainring and the bike started to
wobble when I peddled. I coasted the rest of that hill and the next two I encountered, figuring I
need more practice before pedaling at higher speeds.

Unfortunately, on the last hill coming back into the village, I crashed pretty hard, and the shock
seems to have caused me to forget the exact sequence of events. All I remember is feeling
unstable, and applying the brakes in response. I crashed hard on the left side then was thrown
forward onto the pavement on my stomach with the bike ending up on top of me. After picking myself
and bike up and preparing it to ride again, I noticed that the chain was on the smallest cog in
back, and derailed to the inside of the chainrings in front.

Upon reflection, I think what may have happened is that upon reaching the small cog in back, I
attempted to shift to the large ring in front, but clicked the downshift lever instead of the
upshift lever. This would have caused my legs to spin and possibly my feet came off the pedals or
started to come off causing me to instinctively hit the brakes. For me the brakes where a hair
trigger, prone to locking with very little pressure.

My current bike, that I'm planning on relegating to the basement as an exercise bike, is a 20 year
old lwb Infinity recumbent with uss operated by cables to the front fork. I've ridden this bike
thousands of miles with nary a fall nor fear of one. I've ridden uprights for 30 years, including
Cat III road racing for 3 years, with only 2 crashes. The only near crash I had on my Infinity,
was very similar to what may have happened on the Vision test ride. I was starting down a hill and
shifted the wrong way to my granny instead of to my large ring. The resulting lurch caused the
chain (vary loose at this point in the small, small configuration) to catch under the rear wheel
and wrap, braking the rear derailleur and dropout, and locking the rear wheel. I steered the bike
to a stop with little effort, and no fall.

Now I find myself nervous about riding the Vision again. It certainly is far less stable than my
Infinity. I'm sure with practice I'll get better at the direct, quick steering, and cleats, clips
and straps (which I've always used) should keep my feet on the pedals and my peddling strokes
rounder.

One thing I'm wondering about, is if moving the seat to the forward position was not a good idea
and that stability might improve if it were moved back and would appreciate any opinions.

Another possibility is converting it to medium wheelbase by using the manufacturer's kit for this
purpose. Does anyone have experience with the bike's handling in this configuration?

Thanks for getting to this point in the message as I realize its quite long-winded.

Fred

Fred,

Sorry to hear about your unexpected encounter with gravity. FWIW, I ride an older Vision R 42
(sometimes referred to as the "s-frame" version) that's generally acknowledged as being less
directionally stable than the newer frame design. I've seen speeds of about 40 on it with no
unseemly vibration or oscillation. I rode it USS last year and converted it to OSS this year. I've
found that OSS is marginally more stable (less twitchy), perhaps due to a longer lever between my
hands and the fork. The parts aren't terribly expensive and the conversion is mechanically
straightforward. You've no doubt heard that its important to maintain a "quiet" upper body while
riding and this is particularly true at higher speeds. Isolate the pedaling motion to only the parts
that need to move and consciously relax your upper body so that your hands, head, and torso become
part of the bike. It'll get better - stay with it.

"Fred" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I just received a new Vision R-40 with swb and uss and crashed it at about 15-20 mph on a downhill
near my LBS on the first demo ride.