Vintage Murray Bicycle?

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Is there such a thing as a vintage Murray?
I found this listing on Craigslist Chicago humorous (or perhaps optimistic),
although I don't pretend to be an expert in the used bicycle market.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/bik/178782270.html

I thought only fixies were allowed on Chicago CL...

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

Mike Kruger said:

Is there such a thing as a vintage Murray?
I found this listing on Craigslist Chicago humorous (or perhaps optimistic),
although I don't pretend to be an expert in the used bicycle market.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/bik/178782270.html

Vintage Murray "astro-elite" bike - $75

A very cool vintage girls bike for the 1960's? 1970's? Runs great! Hate to
see it go but need the space. Call Kelly at [censored]-xxxx

The picture shows a very rusty woman's bike with likely the original
equipment on it, plus a wire basket in front. The picture brings up some
waves of nostalgia from childhood, but "vintage"? It probably cost under $50
new.

I think there were vintage made in America Murray bikes in the 50's. I
don't think every school kid had a Schwinn. I have a few pictures (posed
by my mother) of me sitting on a large 27" 3 speed hub bike of some
kind. Even if I put the picture up I don't think there is enough detail
to identify it and I was about 10 so sitting on that big bike was a bit
of a stretch. I could ride it but couldn't get my feet to the ground
unless I hopped off to stop. Next year I grew into it.
Bill Baka

If you bike has a sturdy Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hub then it probably is
vintage.

Mike Kruger said:

Is there such a thing as a vintage Murray?

In the same sense as vintage Ripple or Thunderbird or Mad Dog, sure.

Quoted message said:

I found this listing on Craigslist Chicago humorous (or perhaps optimistic),
although I don't pretend to be an expert in the used bicycle market.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/bik/178782270.html

Vintage Murray "astro-elite" bike - $75

A very cool vintage girls bike for the 1960's? 1970's? Runs great! Hate to
see it go but need the space. Call Kelly at [censored]-xxxx

The picture shows a very rusty woman's bike with likely the original
equipment on it, plus a wire basket in front. The picture brings up some
waves of nostalgia from childhood, but "vintage"? It probably cost under $50
new.

The only way to find out if there's someone crazy enough to buy a
low-value item for a high price is to advertise it and see.
Sometimes, it works. Most of the time, it doesn't.

BTW, most of the bikes I see in the local Craigslist tend to be priced
well above what I would be willing to pay if I was in the market,
though there are some exceptions.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

In article <[email hidden]>,

Werehatrack said:

Mike Kruger said:

Is there such a thing as a vintage Murray?

In the same sense as vintage Ripple or Thunderbird or Mad Dog, sure.

Quoted message said:

I found this listing on Craigslist Chicago humorous (or perhaps optimistic),
although I don't pretend to be an expert in the used bicycle market.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/bik/178782270.html

Vintage Murray "astro-elite" bike - $75

A very cool vintage girls bike for the 1960's? 1970's? Runs great! Hate to
see it go but need the space. Call Kelly at [censored]-xxxx

The picture shows a very rusty woman's bike with likely the original
equipment on it, plus a wire basket in front. The picture brings up some
waves of nostalgia from childhood, but "vintage"? It probably cost under $50
new.

The only way to find out if there's someone crazy enough to buy a
low-value item for a high price is to advertise it and see.
Sometimes, it works. Most of the time, it doesn't.

BTW, most of the bikes I see in the local Craigslist tend to be priced
well above what I would be willing to pay if I was in the market,
though there are some exceptions.

I would describe the pricing on Craigslist Vancouver as "pure comedy
gold."

Also fun: minimal sizing information, blurry photos, people who think
their bike is a collector's item, overpriced bike boom trash...

Craigslist ranks about second to police auctions as the land of crazy
bike pricing.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Mike Kruger said:

Is there such a thing as a vintage Murray?
SNIP

Sure! There are vintage Huffys, too!

Vintage means old, no more no less, in this context.

Of course what it really means is when did it come off the vine, as in
vin, (wine) and as there are good wines and bad, so too there are good
old bikes and bad old bikes.

But I like the swoop frame and the blue color and the chainguard. Go
for it!

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:59:56 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I would describe the pricing on Craigslist Vancouver as "pure comedy
gold."

Also fun: minimal sizing information, blurry photos, people who think
their bike is a collector's item, overpriced bike boom trash...

Craigslist ranks about second to police auctions as the land of crazy
bike pricing.

Todays classic from that venue was an ad for an almost-new tandem bike
for just $350. The photo was not half bad, and the bike looked
familiar. I got curious, and checked a hunch. Sure enough, it was
Kent from Wal-Mart; it sells brand new for $250.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:59:56 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I would describe the pricing on Craigslist Vancouver as "pure comedy
gold."

Also fun: minimal sizing information, blurry photos, people who think
their bike is a collector's item, overpriced bike boom trash...

Craigslist ranks about second to police auctions as the land of crazy
bike pricing.

Todays classic from that venue was an ad for an almost-new tandem bike
for just $350. The photo was not half bad, and the bike looked
familiar. I got curious, and checked a hunch. Sure enough, it was
Kent from Wal-Mart; it sells brand new for $250.

Try what I try on Craigslist. Go for the free stuff and see if you can
be the first one there. I don't but a friend of mine does, and he got a
working laptop for $2.00, and that was only because he felt so guilty he
had to give the lady something.

Remember, neither Craigslist not Ebay require great quality photos,
although they may make the difference between a sale or not. I tried
listing stuff on Ebay with no photos and got 0.0 responses. As soon as I
put photos on my web site and a link in Ebay I got tons of bids.

This country is visually oriented. Why do you think television has
trumped radio in all but cars?

Bill Baka

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 20:10:16 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This country is visually oriented. Why do you think television has
trumped radio in all but cars?

The car market is next, as soon as a functional autopilot is devised.
Oh, wait, I forgot, there's one already; let somebody else drive.
(This accounts for the popularity of, yes, LCD-screen TVs, often
coupled to DVD players, in cars and SUVs.)

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 20:10:16 GMT, Bill <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

This country is visually oriented. Why do you think television has
trumped radio in all but cars?

The car market is next, as soon as a functional autopilot is devised.
Oh, wait, I forgot, there's one already; let somebody else drive.
(This accounts for the popularity of, yes, LCD-screen TVs, often
coupled to DVD players, in cars and SUVs.)

Yeah,
Some of the most absolutely stupid things to put in a car I have ever
heard of. Let the damn kids look out the window like we did. I used to
have a contest for which kid could spot the most out of state license
plates, sometimes followed by a reward of ice cream. That worked good
because the loser didn't get any, even though I had a really [censored]
kid, but then he won the next round of observation.
The DVD thing could backfire if there are real speakers involved and a
dummy driver hears a scene and trys to rubberneck to see it while doing
70 MPH.
Just wait.
Bill Baka

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Werehatrack said:

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:59:56 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I would describe the pricing on Craigslist Vancouver as "pure comedy
gold."

Also fun: minimal sizing information, blurry photos, people who think
their bike is a collector's item, overpriced bike boom trash...

Craigslist ranks about second to police auctions as the land of crazy
bike pricing.

Todays classic from that venue was an ad for an almost-new tandem bike
for just $350. The photo was not half bad, and the bike looked
familiar. I got curious, and checked a hunch. Sure enough, it was
Kent from Wal-Mart; it sells brand new for $250.

Try what I try on Craigslist. Go for the free stuff and see if you can
be the first one there. I don't but a friend of mine does, and he got a
working laptop for $2.00, and that was only because he felt so guilty he
had to give the lady something.

Remember, neither Craigslist not Ebay require great quality photos,
although they may make the difference between a sale or not. I tried
listing stuff on Ebay with no photos and got 0.0 responses. As soon as I
put photos on my web site and a link in Ebay I got tons of bids.

This country is visually oriented. Why do you think television has
trumped radio in all but cars?

Bill Baka

Bill, (and please understand that the following phrase is a term of
endearment I picked up in rec.bicycles.racing) you dumbass, the need for
photos has nothing to do with visual orientation, especially as a
national characteristic.

Photos are the only way for a buyer to evaluate the condition of used
goods from afar. Condition descriptions are not standardized (except in
a few specialty collector markets like comic books, coins, and stamps).

Blurry photos are almost as bad, since they conceal more than they
reveal. At least Craigslist is a regional market, so in theory you're
supposed to go see the goods before putting out good cash, but the
prospect of driving halfway across town to poke at a pig in a poke does
not appeal.

Say no to sales with bad pictures,

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Werehatrack said:

On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:59:56 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>
wrote:

> I would describe the pricing on Craigslist Vancouver as "pure comedy
> gold."
>
> Also fun: minimal sizing information, blurry photos, people who think
> their bike is a collector's item, overpriced bike boom trash...
>
> Craigslist ranks about second to police auctions as the land of crazy
> bike pricing.

Todays classic from that venue was an ad for an almost-new tandem bike
for just $350. The photo was not half bad, and the bike looked
familiar. I got curious, and checked a hunch. Sure enough, it was
Kent from Wal-Mart; it sells brand new for $250.

Try what I try on Craigslist. Go for the free stuff and see if you can
be the first one there. I don't but a friend of mine does, and he got a
working laptop for $2.00, and that was only because he felt so guilty he
had to give the lady something.

Remember, neither Craigslist not Ebay require great quality photos,
although they may make the difference between a sale or not. I tried
listing stuff on Ebay with no photos and got 0.0 responses. As soon as I
put photos on my web site and a link in Ebay I got tons of bids.

This country is visually oriented. Why do you think television has
trumped radio in all but cars?

Bill Baka

Bill, (and please understand that the following phrase is a term of
endearment I picked up in rec.bicycles.racing) you dumbass, the need for
photos has nothing to do with visual orientation, especially as a
national characteristic.

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. Craig's list and Ebay
require photos or no bites. Newspaper want ads don't have photos, but
how many people with Internet look at the paper when they can just
search for a word and let the 3GHz electrons do their work. Did you ever
notice that on Ebay when you go to buy a hard drive, for instance, there
will be a picture, probably pulled from the manufacturer and there will
be bids on it. The items with no pictures have no bids. Yet, we all know
that one hard drive looks pretty damn much like another.

Quoted message said:

Photos are the only way for a buyer to evaluate the condition of used
goods from afar.

Read the above. A hard drive can look brand new and have so many bad
sectors it is unusable. Same goes for just about everything with
creative photography.

Condition descriptions are not standardized (except in

Quoted message said:

a few specialty collector markets like comic books, coins, and stamps).

Yeah, yeah, red book (coins), blue book (cars), etc. ad some nauseum.

Quoted message said:

Blurry photos are almost as bad, since they conceal more than they
reveal. At least Craigslist is a regional market, so in theory you're
supposed to go see the goods before putting out good cash, but the
prospect of driving halfway across town to poke at a pig in a poke does
not appeal.

You are merely re-enforcing what I said, like a picture is worth a
thousand words. That saying will always hold true. Said friend and I
will not drive over 2 miles to check out anything without a picture
unless the deal is so good that we jump up and burn rubber, literally,
we use his Lincoln, and sometimes we get unbelievably lucky, like him
getting a free laptop.

Quoted message said:

Say no to sales with bad pictures,

You still haven't justified the "Dumbass" comment since I spoke no
untruths. When was the last time you heard of a family gathering around
the radio for a Saturday night special? Never you say? I'm old enough to
remember it, and the country was probably better off without television
and now the Internet.

About those pictures....I want to be able to read the serial number of
the bike and see a good close up of the working stuff, not the seller's
opinion of how great the condition is.

Dumbass?

You jumped the gun.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Ryan Cousineau said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bill said:

Werehatrack wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2006 09:59:56 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>
> wrote:
>
>> I would describe the pricing on Craigslist Vancouver as "pure comedy
>> gold."
>>
>> Also fun: minimal sizing information, blurry photos, people who think
>> their bike is a collector's item, overpriced bike boom trash...
>>
>> Craigslist ranks about second to police auctions as the land of crazy
>> bike pricing.
>
> Todays classic from that venue was an ad for an almost-new tandem bike
> for just $350. The photo was not half bad, and the bike looked
> familiar. I got curious, and checked a hunch. Sure enough, it was
> Kent from Wal-Mart; it sells brand new for $250.
Try what I try on Craigslist. Go for the free stuff and see if you can
be the first one there. I don't but a friend of mine does, and he got a
working laptop for $2.00, and that was only because he felt so guilty he
had to give the lady something.

Remember, neither Craigslist not Ebay require great quality photos,
although they may make the difference between a sale or not. I tried
listing stuff on Ebay with no photos and got 0.0 responses. As soon as I
put photos on my web site and a link in Ebay I got tons of bids.

This country is visually oriented. Why do you think television has
trumped radio in all but cars?

Bill Baka

Bill, (and please understand that the following phrase is a term of
endearment I picked up in rec.bicycles.racing) you dumbass, the need for
photos has nothing to do with visual orientation, especially as a
national characteristic.

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. Craig's list and Ebay
require photos or no bites. Newspaper want ads don't have photos, but
how many people with Internet look at the paper when they can just
search for a word and let the 3GHz electrons do their work. Did you ever
notice that on Ebay when you go to buy a hard drive, for instance, there
will be a picture, probably pulled from the manufacturer and there will
be bids on it. The items with no pictures have no bids. Yet, we all know
that one hard drive looks pretty damn much like another.

There's a few nits to pick here:

-I think visual orientation is a global, not a national phenomenon. It's
probably as nearly universal as a human trait gets, given how visually
oriented our species is. It was this weird comment by you that got me to
respond. Quick check: is blindness or deafness a worse affliction?

-yes, a picture will have price benefits beyond its mere
conditon-evaluating value. even a generic HD picture, if it's of the
right component, can help confirm that you're bidding on the right thing
(proper interface, drive sticker matches, etc). And pictures serve as a
signalling device to experienced eBayers about the kind of seller
they're dealing with. No photo is one of those signals (along with bad
descriptions, private auctions, bad feedback) that you're dealing with a
seller who is inexperienced, incompetent, or scamming badly.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Photos are the only way for a buyer to evaluate the condition of used
goods from afar.

Read the above. A hard drive can look brand new and have so many bad
sectors it is unusable. Same goes for just about everything with
creative photography.

Honest photography will look honest. The pictures will reflect the
described condition. Noted blemishes on a used frame (for example) will
be photographed so that I can clearly evaluate them for myself.
Electronic components are not very easy to evaluate by sight, but an HD
auction that didn't describe the drive's usability accurately would
garner bad feedback. Fool eBay buyers twice, etc.

The use of photos has a lot of practical advantages even if it's a stock
photo. If the stock shot doesn't match the goods described, I
immediately start asking questions.

Quoted message said:

Condition descriptions are not standardized (except in

Quoted message said:

a few specialty collector markets like comic books, coins, and stamps).

Yeah, yeah, red book (coins), blue book (cars), etc. ad some nauseum.

Compared to how many markets there are on eBay without standard grading
(pretty much all sporting goods, for example), I think these are the
exceptions, not the rule. Even in places where there might be grading
standards, a lot of stuff simply isn't described within those standards.
My wife is into doll collecting, and it's just a crapshoot.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Blurry photos are almost as bad, since they conceal more than they
reveal. At least Craigslist is a regional market, so in theory you're
supposed to go see the goods before putting out good cash, but the
prospect of driving halfway across town to poke at a pig in a poke does
not appeal.

You are merely re-enforcing what I said, like a picture is worth a
thousand words. That saying will always hold true. Said friend and I
will not drive over 2 miles to check out anything without a picture
unless the deal is so good that we jump up and burn rubber, literally,
we use his Lincoln, and sometimes we get unbelievably lucky, like him
getting a free laptop.

Quoted message said:

Say no to sales with bad pictures,

You still haven't justified the "Dumbass" comment since I spoke no
untruths. When was the last time you heard of a family gathering around
the radio for a Saturday night special? Never you say? I'm old enough to
remember it, and the country was probably better off without television
and now the Internet.

I apologize for that: I shouldn't dump insider jokes from other
newsgroups here where they look like insults. I shouldn't have said it,
and I'm sorry.

Quoted message said:

About those pictures....I want to be able to read the serial number of
the bike and see a good close up of the working stuff, not the seller's
opinion of how great the condition is.

Right! That is the definition of good photos. The lousy blurry photos
force you to decide if the auction is worth sending in clarifying
questions, taking a chance on the unknown, or both. Every little thing
that is wrong with an auction offering tends to increase the number of
questions to the seller, decrease the number of interested bidders, or
both. That there is a hierarchy of utility among photos (no pictures,
stock shots, blurry "real" shots, good shots) should not surprise anyone.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos