Vibration when braking - Rolf Vigor

Quoted message said:

I have a used set of Rolf Vigors, and the front wheel vibrates when
braking at 20 mph or less, but not when braking hard at higher speeds.
I ride a 2002 Klein Q-Pro Carbon, and when I swap the front wheel with
a Rolf Vector Pro (8000 miles on it), or a Mavic Open Pro CD with
Record hub or Mavic MA3 with Record hub, both of which I built myself,
the braking under identical conditions is as smooth as soft butter.

The wheel was slightly out-of-true laterally, but when I used the Rolf
truing tool to true it to within less than 0.25mm lateral true, the
problem was the same. There is a very tiny amount of play in the
cartridge wheel bearing, detected only when pushing on the rim when the
wheel is in the fork, or in my truing stand.

Is it possible that a slightly loose wheel bearing could cause this
vibration, since the vibration is completely gone at, say, 30 mph under
hard braking.

First thing to try, if you haven't already, is to reverse the wheel (flip it
around in the dropout) and see if it's still there.

Was the wheel OK initially and now exhibits this?

In general, lateral trueness isn't the issue; "hop" is more likely. This is
because rim width may vary slightly along the rim wall, so any up-and-down
motion might give the pads more, then less, pressure.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Rousslang said:

I have a used set of Rolf Vigors, and the front wheel
vibrates when braking at 20 mph or less, but not when
braking hard at higher speeds.
I ride a 2002 Klein Q-Pro Carbon, and when I swap the
front wheel with a Rolf Vector Pro (8000 miles on it), or
a Mavic Open Pro CD with Record hub or Mavic MA3
with Record hub, both of which I built myself,
the braking under identical conditions is as smooth as
soft butter.

I had a vibration from braking on the front that over time progressed
into a violent chatter on my rain bike. It also felt a little "grabby"
on first touch of the brakes. I couldn't tell during the rides if it
was the headset, the brake, or the wheel, but it was much worse at
certain speeds. Swapping with another wheel made it go away. The rim
looked worn but not worn out - even though it was. The rim wall had
thinned out making the braking surface uneven. Open Pro rim -
surprised it didn't start to crack first.

Rouss Lang said:

I have a used set of Rolf Vigors, and the front wheel vibrates when
braking at 20 mph or less, but not when braking hard at higher
speeds. I ride a 2002 Klein Q-Pro Carbon, and when I swap the front
wheel with a Rolf Vector Pro (8000 miles on it), or a Mavic Open Pro
CD with Record hub or Mavic MA3 with Record hub, both of which I
built myself, the braking under identical conditions is as smooth as
soft butter.

Could you describe the "vibrates" a bit more. Hear at the KBD it
isn't readily apparent whether this is a vibration several times per
wheel rotation, a more rapid chatter, or a brake vibration at near
acoustic frequency, quite aside from brake squeal. The kind of brake
may also have en effect on this

Quoted message said:

The wheel was slightly out-of-true laterally, but when I used the
Rolf truing tool to true it to within less than 0.25mm lateral true,
the problem was the same. There is a very tiny amount of play in the
cartridge wheel bearing, detected only when pushing on the rim when
the wheel is in the fork, or in my truing stand.

Quoted message said:

Is it possible that a slightly loose wheel bearing could cause this
vibration, since the vibration is completely gone at, say, 30 mph
under hard braking.

Neither alignment or wheel bearing clearance will cause vibration so
you can rule that out. From the Rolf web site, it seems there were
earlier models that were a bit flimsy, so it is possible that the
wheel is true on the average but has varying width or even vertical
between spoke variations.

I notice that Rolf claims to be the inventor of the 1890 patented
wheel of R.S. Lovelace. (See Andrew Ritchie's "King of the Road".)

# Rolf Dietrich is the inventor of the paired-spoke bicycle wheel
# design.

Paired-spoke wheels vanished from bicycling more than 100 years ago
for good reason.

Jobst Brandt

jobst.brandt said:

I notice that Rolf claims to be the inventor of the 1890 patented wheel of
R.S. Lovelace. (See Andrew Ritchie's "King of the Road".)

# Rolf Dietrich is the inventor of the paired-spoke bicycle wheel #
design.

Paired-spoke wheels vanished from bicycling more than 100 years ago for
good reason.

It may be so, but my Rolfs seem to work fine in spite of themselves.

I had my reservations at first, considering selling them on eBay and
putting the proceeds toward "real" wheels. But I have several thousand
miles on them now with no problems. I did rebuild them once, but the
problem there was lack of stress-relieving, etc., and not design.

Matt O.

Upon close inspection under bright lights at my LBS, there was
noticeable curving of the brake surface on both sides near the seam
(where the machined brake surface should be flat!). Even though
laterally true, with no hop, this "curvature" forced the brake shoe to
follow the contour. These wheels were purchased from a private party
as "nearly new," but apparently had been dented, and straightened, but
inadequately. Really tough to see, even on a truing stand. My
micrometer showed that the curvature allowed almost 0.5 mm of roll-off
a few mm from the radial maximum of the rim, whereas the braking
surface was otherwise flat (less than 0.03 mm variation elsewhere).

And Jobst, FWIW, the Rolf Vector Pros I have ridden for the last 3
years have 15000 Km on them, and are true as the day I first rode them.
Whatever you have against paired spoke technology, I have never broken
a spoke, which I can't say for conventional wheels I've owned, nor have
my Rolfs given me any trouble of any kind. I have built a half-dozen
wheels, Mavic Open Pro/Record mostly, using your book on wheelbuilding,
and I've been very pleased. But they have not outperformed the Rolfs
in any way.

Cheers,

Rousslang (not Rouss Lang)