Very bad massage...need help

I haven't really had many massages, but I did have a similar experience. A while back I was having some problems with my shoulder and started seeing a PT for it. They had a massage therapist on staff. They asked if I wanted to see her and I said sure why not. While she was doing the massage it felt quite good. I actually like a lot of pressure and am very pain tolerant and that may have been my downfall. A couple of hours later that night my shoulder and arm hurt so bad I almost dropped one of those little tiny tea cups you get at asian restaurants. I picked it up and my whole right side just about cramped up. Needless to say I didn't feel like getting any more massages from her.

This summer at the midpoint of a 2 day 200 mile ride I got a massage by a different person, whom (call me a fool) I also let have free reign with the amount of pressure she used, but this time it was great, 2nd day was nearly shoulder/neck pain free thanks to her.

I couldn't really tell you why I had the different experiences. The second person was probably a little more rough with me, but I did ask her to avoid rubbing a certain spot on my shoulder blade (don't know if it is a muscle or a tendon or what??) back and forth since I thought that it may have been the source of the irritation the last time.

hombredesubaru said:

My son is 18 and a competetive road racer. From time to time gets a massage to help undo tension in lower back, legs, and shoulders. He got a massage last week two days before a big road race and was wrecked after the massage.

The guy who normally does his massages was called out and the owner of the place stepped in. My son told him he was a cyclist, had a race in two days, needed it to be light. The guy did some very painful deep tissue massage and my son was in pain before and after the massage. He was totally wrecked after the massage.

Needless to say he tanked the road race and had no power.

Has anyone has experiences like this or know of solutions to aid recovery?
It was a dramatic learning experience and obviously the masseuse had no idea what he was doing. Always recall, nothing new before a race.

I've had this experience a couple of times also. Last time was early July when I tested out a new massage therapist. He claimed he knew how to do a good massage for an athlete, and went in real deep and hard. Sometimes it was actually quite painful. I was a little skeptical, but I thought "OK, he knows what he's doing - I'll give it a try...". I ended up pretty much the same way you describe.

My experience is that it's almost as if my muscles collapse. Usually they are voluminous, I can see my muscles are well defined, and I feel powerful. After this massage I swear my legs were thinner, my muscles weren't as well defined, and I couldn't feel them as well either when I touched my legs. It's almost like he squeezed the juice and tension out of them.

For me it takes quite a while to get back (a few weeks). What I have found helps me the most are long, easy rides. It's almost as if these rides "pumps" up my muscles again. When trying to go hard I just don't have the strength, and I have to work really hard to get my power up.

I really don't have any other tips... I'm interested in additional experiences and tips regarding this myself...

hombredesubaru said:

My son is 18 and a competetive road racer. From time to time gets a massage to help undo tension in lower back, legs, and shoulders. He got a massage last week two days before a big road race and was wrecked after the massage.

The guy who normally does his massages was called out and the owner of the place stepped in. My son told him he was a cyclist, had a race in two days, needed it to be light. The guy did some very painful deep tissue massage and my son was in pain before and after the massage. He was totally wrecked after the massage.

Needless to say he tanked the road race and had no power.

Has anyone has experiences like this or know of solutions to aid recovery?
It was a dramatic learning experience and obviously the masseuse had no idea what he was doing. Always recall, nothing new before a race.

sorry to hear that he had such a negative experience. i am a massage therapist, one who has worked on athletes of all different disciplines. unfortunately, there are a lot of mediocre, not well-educated therapists out there. from the other posts here as well, it sounds like the therapists are not calling for feedback, which when working with a competitive athlete is EXTREMELY important. as a client, you should never hesitate to tell your therapist when it is getting painful. contrary to what a lot of people think, massage does not have to be painful to be effective. also, ask a lot of questions. the therapist should have a rationale for every technique and treatment plan that they use. my advice is to find a therapist who is trained in Russian Sports massage. the Russians did countless studies over the years and have very specific protocols for their athletes throughout the season and off-season.

hombredesubaru said:

My son is 18 and a competetive road racer. From time to time gets a massage to help undo tension in lower back, legs, and shoulders. He got a massage last week two days before a big road race and was wrecked after the massage.

The guy who normally does his massages was called out and the owner of the place stepped in. My son told him he was a cyclist, had a race in two days, needed it to be light. The guy did some very painful deep tissue massage and my son was in pain before and after the massage. He was totally wrecked after the massage.

Needless to say he tanked the road race and had no power.

Has anyone has experiences like this or know of solutions to aid recovery?
It was a dramatic learning experience and obviously the masseuse had no idea what he was doing. Always recall, nothing new before a race.

Read this thread ... http://www.cyclingforums.com/t239978-.html and go to the posts by Biker-Linz and Ric Stern. In this thread Biker-Linz shows some evidence that shows that massage is suspect at best in it's ability to enhance cycling performance.

It may not be what we want to hear or what we've been told most of our lives, but the data backs it up.

Doctor Morbius said:

Read this thread ... cyclingforums.comt239978 .htmlOpen ↗ and go to the posts by Biker-Linz and Ric Stern. In this thread Biker-Linz shows some evidence that shows that massage is suspect at best in it's ability to enhance cycling performance.

It may not be what we want to hear or what we've been told most of our lives, but the data backs it up.

Doc, i failed to see any reference in that thread to massage. the debate over stretching (when, how much, type, etc.) will probably go on forever. the average recreational athlete knows very little about stretching, hence the reason we see weekend warriors out having a nice, relaxing stretching session before they begin a strenuous activity...lol. massage is a different story, and while there have not been a lot of studies published to date on its effect on recovery, the theory is sound. more studies are being done, and it will take time before it's accepted at large in the sports community. if anything, massage would only have a peripheral effect on performance by decreasing recovery time. in my experience, massage is more useful in managing tensional imbalances caused by the activity itself. in the case of cycling, i perform quite a lot of work on the psoas, and find that it has helped many of my clients who are competitive cyclist and/or triathletes.

thirdeye73 said:

Doc, i failed to see any reference in that thread to massage.

It's in there. If you read all the posts by Biker-Linz you'll find it.

I think the reason so many "qualified" authorites don't post to threads like this one is that they are bored with them. These topics come up fairly frequently. That's why I just posted a link to that old thread. It's kind of like the "lifting weights for cycling" type thread. Ric made a sticky out of one of them and they still crop up.

Edit: I'm not suggesting that you aren't qualified by the way. I'm just saying that's why more qualified people don't chime in.

Doctor Morbius said:

It's in there. If you read all the posts by Biker-Linz you'll find it.

I think the reason so many "qualified" authorites don't post to threads like this one is that they are bored with them. These topics come up fairly frequently. That's why I just posted a link to that old thread. It's kind of like the "lifting weights for cycling" type thread. Ric made a sticky out of one of them and they still crop up.

Edit: I'm not suggesting that you aren't qualified by the way. I'm just saying that's why more qualified people don't chime in.

i totally understand....after a while you get tired of having to re-explain everything to those who are either not as educated, or are too dogmatic in their approach.

thirdeye73 said:

i totally understand....after a while you get tired of having to re-explain everything to those who are either not as educated, or are too dogmatic in their approach.

Thanks so far.
I do wonder why the pros get massages if they dont work.
Clearly this massage my son got was wrong.

On the other hand, my son had a very tight back this summer when we rode over Galibier and then up Alpe d'Huez.
A massage therapist on top helped him tremendously with just thiry minutes, but he was the former masseuse for the Frnech National ski team, and before that a masseuse/soigneur for the french espsoir team. He was magic. No pain, and relieved all the tightness in a brief time.

I don't get massages because I think it will help my athletic performance. I get massages because they feel great. I think this is why many people do it.

I also found the first time I ever got a massge, I was very sore and could hardly move. Now, I can get them whenever, from different people, and I'm never sore the next day. Maybe it's something that requires you get used to it.

-Matt

Off topic.. but how much do massages usually cost? Rough price I mean...

Also, a good massage usually just relaxes the muscles so that the next morning it's like they're "new" and you get maximum use of them... right?

There is a very wide range of massage modalities, and techniques that can be used to help muscles relax and relieve tension, find/treat problem areas, aid recovery and the dispersion of excess lactic acid, improve lymph drainage, increase/decrease internal energy etc. Obviously not all are suitable for all people all the time.